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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Does Golf Need More Nine Hole Courses?
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2010, 09:40:59 PM »
Another private 9holer in the Philly 'burbs is West Chester CC, a Karl Litten design:

http://www.westchestercc.net/
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
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Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Bret Swanson

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Re: Does Golf Need More Nine Hole Courses?
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2010, 10:44:15 PM »

The Dunes Club in New Buffalo, MI is a 9 hole club and one of the greatest golf experiences one could have.  If there were 18 holes there as good as the 9 holes in the ground it would easily be a top 100, maybe a top 50 course.


Agreed. I played Dunes Club on Saturday, courtesy of my brother. Spectacular autumn day to match the course. Unlike anything you've seen, except Pine Valley perhaps. Very special place.

Here's a 1997 Sports Illustrated article with their ranking of the top 10 nine-hole U.S. courses . . . . http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1011202/index.htm

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: Does Golf Need More Nine Hole Courses?
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2010, 08:00:35 AM »
There are, proportionately, a lot of 9-hole courses in the Manchester/Cheshire area of England. Some are long-established private clubs, others recent pay-and-play and the occasional municipal. They all seem to have found their right niche and don't seem to be in as much trouble as the private 18-hole clubs in the Manchester suburbs. Several are close to bankruptcy and a couple are to merge, selling one of their courses for development. They are losing those members who play only a few rounds a year, because green fees for, say, ten rounds at pretty well any standard of course will be considerably less than their annual sub. (Of course, there are very few private members' clubs in the UK that don't allow uninvited visitors). They might have a problem at one or two places because they don't have an active handicap, but there are some very good courses around here (such as Delamere Forest and Wilmslow) that do not require a visitor to be a member of another club nor to have a handicap.

Some private 9-hole clubs will not sell a 9-hole green fee to visitors. They presumably don't want many visitors. But several will do so and it presents an attractively short round for those in a hurry and, very likely, a better 9 holes (design and condition) than will be found at any of the pay-and-play or municipal facilities.

I know of only one 18-hole course (a municipal in Sandbach) which will sell a 9-hole green fee. It is so crowded that your nine holes may take 3 hours - you don't play there to save time!

Michael Huber

Re: Does Golf Need More Nine Hole Courses?
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2010, 10:59:00 AM »
Another private 9holer in the Philly 'burbs is West Chester CC, a Karl Litten design:

http://www.westchestercc.net/


Phoenixville CC in outside of Phoenixville, is also private and 9 holes

Mark McKeever

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Re: Does Golf Need More Nine Hole Courses?
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2010, 11:17:19 AM »
I was a member at Phoenixville for a few years during high school and my tenure at Villanova.  Its a great golf course that has tons of quirk.  The greens are tiny with a lot of movement.  My short game was as sharp as I can remember when I used to play out of PCC.  I would love to see more of these around, but they really are few and far between. 

I still need to follow up with a current member who has proof that Wilson designed the golf course.

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Dan Boerger

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Re: Does Golf Need More Nine Hole Courses?
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2010, 03:34:36 PM »
An old Nine hole course I used to play years ago and which still has some pretty interesting greensites is the Sadaquada club in Whitestown, NY [Central New York, near Utica]. Interesting website about the place:

http://www.sadaquada.cc/index.html
"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

John Foley

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Re: Does Golf Need More Nine Hole Courses?
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2010, 03:01:36 PM »
Been traveling a bit and have not been on here as a of late and just saw this.

First and foremost what has made Champion Hills a success so far are three things:

1 - Solid golf course. Barry Jordan built a very strategic and interesting par 33 - 2750 yard very walkable course. It has short par 4's mid length par 4's short & long par 3's and a brutal par 5. Same tee's same course if you play 9 or 18. Great greens with a lot of pin options, integrated chipping area's and vertical movement of the surrounds on many. In the short, it's a fun course.

2 - Environment - They built up the membership and so far it's a great atmosphere of families of very similar age / economics & background. It's a famillly club and in full disclosure many (including me) have joined for the pool access alone. Not sure of the developers idea's moving into this, but he got it right. Joining was my wife's idea and when it was first brought up, I was not that thrilled. Come on 9 hole course, wouldn't get to play the other great courses around etc... What a great idea it was.

3 - Pricing. For golf a clubhouse & a pool with other local ammenities (health club etc..) it can't be beat. To join an 18 hole mid tier private place would be 5X the initiation & 2X the monthly. Had dinner with Gib this past spring and told him the deal we have and he was ready to move for the price alone. God help us if he ever showed up!!! If every developer could do this correctly, I think it would be eye openeing.

This year I did not get to any of the local great public courses - played all my local golf here and loved it.

If I can get out in the next week or so, I'll take some pics and post them here.

Lastly - If anyone is in the area and wants to stop buy please IM or email me. Would love to host any who are interested.
Integrity in the moment of choice

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Does Golf Need More Nine Hole Courses?
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2010, 01:38:19 PM »
Dan Boerger,
A little bit about Sadaquada in an 1896 article - history of the club,  6 holes by Willie Park then improvements by Horace Rawlins, etc.

http://tinyurl.com/2dxg7mt
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Tom Walsh

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Re: Does Golf Need More Nine Hole Courses?
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2010, 03:00:19 PM »
St. Louis has two private nines--Bogey Club and Log Cabin Club. They are adjacent to each other on Clayton Road. Small memberships, very private. Both built by Robert Foulis (I think)

My favorite 9 holer is Ruth Park Municipal -- also built by Robert Foulis here in St. Louis. Very public.
"vado pro vexillum!"

Ken Fry

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Re: Does Golf Need More Nine Hole Courses?
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2010, 09:57:35 PM »
Just east of The Dunes Club in New Buffalo, MI is Signal Point Club in Niles, MI (about 25 miles east).  Signal Point is a Robert Bruce Harris private nine holer built in the late '60's.  Ron Whitten had Signal Point as number 7 on his list of top 25 nine holers in the country.

Signal is worth a stop in if you hit the courses by the lake or Warren down at Notre Dame.  The club is private but will allow outside play if you call.  If anyone has questions about the course or would like to play it, drop me a note.

Ken

JNC Lyon

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Re: Does Golf Need More Nine Hole Courses?
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2010, 02:19:00 AM »
played all my local golf here and loved it.

I thought you got to play at another course in Rochester this summer.  I must be mistaken...
 ;D ;D
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Derrick Vest

Three 6 hole layouts?
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2010, 08:21:50 AM »
This is a concept I've been contemplating and heard rumbles about in the industry, but don't know if it's been implemented.  But, why not design the three best 6 hole layouts on a property?  Here's my thinking, a section of the golf market doesn't play because it's too time consuming, fixed it.  There would be a set rate for 6 holes and an alternative to 4-5 hr rounds.  Additionally, you get the benefit of still producing the revenue from 18 hole rounds and the cost effectiveness.  Anyone seen a model like this or think it would work?

John Foley

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Re: Does Golf Need More Nine Hole Courses?
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2010, 08:40:47 AM »

John , John,  John - I would think that a Senior at such a prestigious school as Colgate would have mastered the art of proofreading by now!!!


This year I did not get to any of the local great public courses - played all my local golf here and loved it.


No Ravenwood , Greystone, Mill Creek etc...

Did get to see a few good privates that I had not seen previously yet though! :)
Integrity in the moment of choice

Phil_the_Author

Re: Does Golf Need More Nine Hole Courses?
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2010, 09:20:48 AM »
JC & Brett,,

Regarding Dunes Club both of you mentioned; after reading the SI article I have two questions:

1- Is the Mike Keiser mentioned as owner and "tree-hugger" the same of Bandon fame?
2- It seems that it is ranked as #1 because of its difficulty factor as much or more than its architectural design based solely on my reading of the article. Would you say that is a fair assessment?

Ken Fry

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Re: Does Golf Need More Nine Hole Courses?
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2010, 09:35:10 AM »
JC & Brett,,

Regarding Dunes Club both of you mentioned; after reading the SI article I have two questions:

1- Is the Mike Keiser mentioned as owner and "tree-hugger" the same of Bandon fame?
2- It seems that it is ranked as #1 because of its difficulty factor as much or more than its architectural design based solely on my reading of the article. Would you say that is a fair assessment?

Philip,

I'll butt in with my two cents on the Dunes Club.

The owner is the same Mike Keiser of Bandon success.
The Dunes is able to stand on it's architectural merit.  Yes, it is difficult but the course is fun and a great walk.  I'm in the camp that believes the course would be even better with an extensive tree removal program.  Playing corridors have become too choked over the years.

Ken

Phil_the_Author

Re: Does Golf Need More Nine Hole Courses?
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2010, 09:49:54 AM »
Ken,

With "tree-hugger" Mike do you envision an extensive or even a minimal tree-removal plan in the future?

Dan Boerger

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Re: Does Golf Need More Nine Hole Courses?
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2010, 11:16:42 AM »
Jim - Thanks for the article! Very interesting read, and quite a history for the Sadaquada Club. Also, whenever I read one of your posts, my eye is alway taken to the Utica Observer Dispatch quote. Many years ago, I worked for that newspaper -- it was a summer internship in their sports department. Thanks again for passing this along. -Dan
"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

Adam Russell

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Re: Does Golf Need More Nine Hole Courses?
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2010, 12:33:20 PM »
I would rather see clubs in trouble shut a nine down and change up some tees than the industry start trying to force economics building new nine-hole courses. I do think they serve purpose to grow the game as I know a number of people (including me) who learned the game first on a nine-hole course.
The only way that I could figure they could improve upon Coca-Cola, one of life's most delightful elixirs, which studies prove will heal the sick and occasionally raise the dead, is to put rum or bourbon in it.” -Lewis Grizzard

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Does Golf Need More Nine Hole Courses?
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2010, 12:50:24 PM »
Dan,
Glad you enjoyed the article. Here's another that contains some similar info along with some new stuff, like the fact that Sadaquada was almost going to be known as St. Patrick's Links

 http://tinyurl.com/298tlum


p.s. Very prescient quote from the UOD  ;)
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Ken Fry

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Re: Does Golf Need More Nine Hole Courses?
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2010, 12:58:35 PM »
Ken,

With "tree-hugger" Mike do you envision an extensive or even a minimal tree-removal plan in the future?

Philip,

There may be someone on the board more in the loop on that question than me.  I had heard some trimming was done but not to the extent needed.  It's been a few years since I did a loop around Dunes.

Ken

Matthew Rose

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Re: Does Golf Need More Nine Hole Courses?
« Reply #45 on: October 24, 2010, 06:14:44 PM »
Don't know about regulation courses, but I'm certainly in favor of more par-3s and pitch N putts.

It's cheap, it gets you walking, it's a great place to take your young kids, and it only takes an hour.

For a low handicapper, it's a great way to learn how to hit your expensive new wedges :)
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

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