[rjsimper]

Had the privilege of playing Diamond Creek last weekend, and with the leaves inching toward their peak, it was a memorable day in a gorgeous setting.

I'm not sure there is a more impressive entrance to a club (setting aside the ghosts and tradition of older clubs, which is impossible to replicate).

You drive through the town of Banner Elk, and off a side road for quite some time before coming to a modest turnout with a small sign and an iron gate.





As you drive in, you come around a bend and are met with a cabin (guest accommodations), a pond, and a 100 foot rock face and waterfall



Further up the road you hit the clubhouse, a lodge-y, stone/wood structure staffed by an incredibly friendly crew. The interior is impressive, with a golf shop that strikes you more as living room and less as "store".



But the real awe is when you walk out the back and enjoy lunch overlooking the entirety of the front nine.





As for the golf course, I thought it was excellent. Nice work by Fazio of making a mountain site not feel like mountaingoat golf. Most of the holes traverse the slope with a few exceptions. Conditions are immaculate as you might expect.

The first hole is a tough tee shot with an even tougher second (especially if you are out of position off the tee)


I am going to mess up some of the hole numbers I'm sure, and for that I apologize. The third calls for a tee shot skirting the fairway bunker protecting the right



The 4th is a nice par 5 with a stunning view of the mountains and the valley. Reachable with 2 big shots. As you can see in the second photo, the run-up shot is encouraged (and necessary for this day's pin)



The walk to the 5th tee takes you through the woods - this is a new back tee - and you hit a mid/short iron through the chute



Looking back to the 6th tee you can make out yours truly teeing off and the clubhouse in the distance. The green is well-protected, as you'd expect from a short-ish hole



The blind tee shot on the 9th is a challenging one - keep it right.



After you finish the 9th hole, stop in to the clubhouse for a drink and snack. Not a bad spot...


The 10th is the shortest par 4 on the course and is a demanding 2nd shot for a wedge. One of the few forced layups off the tee, though I'm told some of the members try to drive it downwind...


The 11th green is a simple and stunning spot...tough to gauge depth


The 12th is the first hole that starts to feel "wooded" - a par 3 of around 200 yards


13 is a reachable par 5 that has one of the better tee shots on the course - again, a wooded hole, which feels a bit claustrophobic after the openness of the front nine (even though it's got plenty of width). A draw over the bunkers can get you inside of 200 yards


14 is maybe the toughest par 4 on the course - hug the right and then a forced carry to a green that will accept a shot running in from the right




16 is a "wow" tee shot, but it also can be scary to have a ball be in the air for this long. It's 460 or so on the card, but it plays more like 350. Driver not necessary.


17 is the "signature" hole and for all the hemming and hawing about waterfalls, this one still takes the breath away. The giant waterfall that you see driving in plays as a backdrop (some 400 yards beyond the green, but still). Sorry but if you can't enjoy this, then you're taking yourself a little too seriously.


18 is a tough, short/medium uphill par 4. It's a bit anti-climactic to end this way, but it is what it is. It's not an awful hole...but definitely one of the weaker ones on an otherwise spectacular course. It's more of an Anycourse National finisher.


Seems like they'd get rid of this if they reversed the nines, but I also understand the desire to want 17 as the crescendo. I think 8 is a fine par 3 and could serve nicely in that capacity.

Either way, I thought Diamond Creek was an excellent golf course at a world-class facility. Knocks on it I would say are the relative similarity to the par 5s on the front (though both are EXCELLENT holes), the 18th hole, and the fact that it's hard to concentrate on golf with such beautiful scenery around. I think it compares VERY favorably with other top 100 courses.

[Eric Smith]

Wow! Is fall golf in the mountains one of life's great treasures or what? Especially on a golf course that looks as beautiful as this one appears to be. Great pictures Ryan.

I have a friend who has caddied there on occassion for some big honchos.  He has described Diamond Creek as the ideal golf retreat.

[JC Jones]

Ryan,

Thanks for the tour and the pictures.  I was very disappointed to have turned down an invitation there earlier this fall.  I am hoping to get there next year.

Eric,

A friend of mine, who is a member there, is very best described as a "honcho."

[Roger Wolfe]

In my opinion, the front nine/clulbhouse/driving range complex, especially in mid October, is just about as perfect as it gets.

Unbelievable setting.

[Harris Nepon]

Amazing pictures. Looks like an great place to play golf. Thanks for the tour.

[Mike Benham]

[Jimmy Muratt]

I've heard wonderful things about Diamond Creek and the photos of the course and setting certainly confirm that.  How walkable is the course?  Obviously it's got a good amount of elevation change but are the green to tee walks reasonable?

[rjsimper]

I felt like it was doable.
The most severe slopes are downhill...the uphills are more gradual.  Green to tee walks are not bad at all.

There are a few "bring your driver to the green" holes playing in a cart, so those it would actually help to be walking.

It's no "walk in the park" but far from unwalkable. As with many other mountainish courses, I'd do it with a caddie.

[JNC Lyon]

Ryan,

From the photos, it looks like the crisp, bright-white bunkers clash with the rugged terrain and surrounding woodlands.  Did you get that sense when you played there?

[rjsimper]

Clash? Sure...anywhere you put white sand is going to contrast with trees and nature.

Does it fit with the theme? Nobody is trying to make this course look like it's been there forever, so I don't think I'd call it out of character. It is what it is...a manicured, groomed, immaculate golf course built on the side of a mountain in a spectacular setting.

If they were doing the blowout bunker thing and the "native area" thing, then yes the Augusta-white sand would not fit.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Diamond Creek is very walkable.  Caddies will take a cart but not carry.  I have played it a number of times in different times of the year.  It is just a great place to play and hang out.  
Whenever you go, however, you need to eat at Atisanal's.  It is on the Diamond Creek property but outside the gate.  Huizinga brought in his favorite chef and gave him a great place to cook.

[Ed Oden]

As some of you know, I am a member at Diamond Creek.  I rarely discuss it on this board for a couple of reasons.  First, for the most part, the club has shied away from publicity.  Second (and more importantly), I find the anti-Fazio bias on this board pervasive enough that it is sometimes not worth the effort to speak positively when his work succeeds.  Nevertheless, with some trepidation, I will offer my thoughts on the golf course:

Diamond Creek is a stunningly beautiful place.  The mountain setting is breathtaking.  The course conditioning is unparalleled.   And the fescue seas in summer and bursting colors in fall can be magical.  All that beauty is prime fodder for those who are eye-candy intolerant.  But don’t let looks fool you.  The course is a top notch design.  While there are very few places on this earth that I would rather take in the view than from the back patio of the clubhouse with a cold beer in hand, aesthetics has absolutely nothing to do with my high regard for the course.  Rather, here is what I see when I disregard the physical beauty.

I see a course that at its core is a very strategic design.  I think more at Diamond Creek than at any other course that I have played with any meaningful frequency.  Fairways are generally very wide, but from every tee there is either a risk/reward choice or a preferred line to achieve the best angle of approach to the green.  Similarly, approach shots must be well conceived in addition to well executed in order to achieve a good result.

I see a course that plays exceedingly firm and fast.  The sand capped fairways drain exceptionally well.  So Diamond Creek does not suffer from the wet conditions that tend to plague mountain courses.  Balls run out in the fairways and the ground game is often the best (and sometimes only) way of getting close to a hole.  I am a lob wedge lover, but I putt from off the greens at Diamond Creek whenever possible.

I see a course that has very few bunkers.   I believe there are only 43 over the entire course.  So, unlike some of Fazio designs I have seen, the bunkers do not dominate the aesthetic.  Rather, they compliment the strategic elements of the course.

I see a set of greens that is among the best I have seen anywhere.  Some of the contours appear subtle.  But that is often an optical illusion created by the mountain effect.  Repeated play reveals their severity, particularly at the high speeds at which they are maintained.  I’ve been told by one architect on this site that Diamond Creek has the best set of greens Fazio has ever designed.

I see a course that has all kinds of variety in the green surrounds, from very tight fairways, to moderate rough to heavy rough.  Options are plentiful and creativity is demanded.  Your score is largely determined by how well you handle recovery shots.

One thing that really bothers me about members who discuss their courses on this site is the often defensive reaction to criticism.  No course is perfect.   So why would we believe our courses are beyond criticism just because we are members?  That is a position borne out of insecurity and I refuse to contribute to that syndrome.  So I will offer my own criticisms of Diamond Creek:

Everyone I know that has played the course says it would be improved by flipping the nines.  I agree.  My good friend Bart Bradley jokes that the 9th hole is the best finishing hole in NC.  He may be right.  #9 is a fantastic hole that is perfectly situated for a finisher with the back of the clubhouse overlooking.   While #18 is a solid hole that has earned my respect with repeated play, it is not among my favorites on the course.  The fact that #9 is so good merely serves to accentuate the disparity.  Contrary to the explanation Ryan posted, the order of the nines isn’t about positioning #17 as the signature hole.  Rather, it is attributable to a desire to have the 1st tee right next to the range.

The holes on the front nine tend to run back and forth in the same directions.  In theory, I agree that this is not ideal.  However, in practice, I find very little fault in the use of this design at Diamond Creek.  First of all, doing so allows the course to play across the slope of the mountain and avoid some of the up and down holes that often constricts mountain golf architecture.  Secondly, one major drawback of holes running in the same direction is that you normally don’t get the same variations in effect of wind.  But at Diamond Creek wind direction is more a function of little creases in the mountains and valleys than the direction of the hole.  For example, there are several holes where the wind almost always changes direction 180 degrees between the tee and the green.

The par fives on the front nine are too similar.  While each is an outstanding hole individually, they share too many design qualities to be ideal.

Finally, there isn’t really a drivable par 4.  While the 10th hole is a marvelous (and devilish) short par 4 that is reachable in terms of sheer distance, the way the hazards are situated makes doing so a practical impossibility.

There are likely a few other blemishes at Diamond Creek.  But taken as a whole, they are, in my opinion, insignificant in the scheme of things and certainly do not materially impact the overall quality of the course.  I have it rated very high on GolfWeek’s modern list.   And I am by nature someone who is skeptical of my own bias.  So it is against my nature to be comfortable overlooking that bias to rate it highly.

So there you have it.  Consider my opinion biased if you want.  But it is at least very well informed and comes with the perspective of having seen a lot of other highly rated courses.  I have no problems if others take a different view.  However, the criticisms shouldn’t be superficial or spawned by anti-Fazioism or based in trendy buzz phrases.  Make it meaningful.   Otherwise, it is meaningless.

[Kenny Baer]

Ed,

I have had the great fortune of playing 1 round at DC and it just may be the most beautiful inland course in the country.

It is also the best conditioned golf course I have ever seen, I have played Double Eagle, Muirfield Village, and many other courses purely known for their conditions; the sand capped fairways are absolute perfection as are the greens; it is a mountain course that plays firm and fast. 

The greens are ...WOW...; anyone who says Fazio does not create interesting and complex greens has not played DC; they are as difficult with as much internal contour as anything I have ever played.

I can't say enough about how cool a place it is, literally everything about it; even the shower.

I do think it is a very difficult golf course; the greens are plain nasty and from far enough back the course is a bear.  I would flip the nines as well, in my one play I found 18 to be the weakest hole on the course and the only hole that anyone could see as weak; literally I found every other hole to be superb.

Does anyone have the problem that once you type down to the bottom of the repy bar you can no longer see what you are typing; it is very annoying fyi.

[rjsimper]

One of the more fun recovery shots I had to hit was long of the 13th green. The pin was right down front, and I was long-left.

That green is pretty wild, and hitting an open-faced pitch and run that flies maybe 15 feet and rolls out about 75...skirting a couple different ridges, hang way out to the left, and then fall to the hole (all while not going back off the false front) was a lot of fun.

I should also mention that the variety in the recovery shots around the greens is very good. There are times where the proper play is a putt from 20 yards off the green, or where you are tested with a tight, option-rich lie. Other times you can have the typical lob wedge, thick lie chip shot.

It's nice to not have to automatically grab your wedge every time you miss a green. Those are the types of courses that keep it fresh.

[David Camponi]

Is it strange that I just got an erection looking at these pictures?

Diamond Creek is superb in every way; granted it is no Common Ground (That is a reference to a previous thread) but still it is superb!!

It does not have a weak hole, it has incredible conditioning; it is very walkable especially for a Mtn Course, the greens are awesome in both condition and design, and it is in one of the most beautiful spots on earth.

How a course like this is not ranked higher shows you the stupidity of "rankings".

[Ryan Farrow]

Wow. This place is beautiful...... Thanks for posting the pics Ryan.

JNC... Not every course needs blowout bunkers. Variety baby, variety is good. I would have rather seen grass faced bunkers with less movement then the ones they have now.  Certainly not anything rugged.

Ed, If money is not a big deal on the maintenance staff you guys could visually benefit from a step-cut. What kind of Turf do you have?

[Carl Nichols]

Thanks for the great pictures and analysis, both from Ryan and Ed.  I had heard very little about this course, and it looks both aethestically spectacular and fun -- both of which I value highly!  

Is there a possible anti-Fazio bias in the rankings?  I played both Cassique (Watson) and River (Fazio) on Kiawah Island about a month ago, and I preferred the latter, even though the former gets ranked more highly.

[Greg Tallman]

Ed - Are Johnny Mac and Mike M still running the show at Diamond Creek?

I'll take Grandfather over DC but if in the area would certainly play both along with Linville GC... we can skip Elk River and Linville Ridge.

[Will Spivey]

I had the great pleasure to play DC earlier this year.  It is a tremendous course.  Let's get the obvious out of the way; it is a beautiful facility in an amazing setting.  Many may incorrectly think this comment the GCA analog to "she's got a great personality," but it's not.  This is an interesting, and strategically challenging golf course.

Not being the best ball striker on the planet, I often don't enjoy mountain golf.  In my experience much mountain golf is overly penal.  DC is clearly of the strategic school.  While it is possible to hit the ball "off the mountain" that's usually not the issue at hand.  Each tee shot provides options for every level of player and smart and skillful play is rewarded.  The routing, while Ed downplays it as a bit back and forth, is masterful in my opinion in that one never gets the "goofy golf shot," not even once.

The greens are things of beauty.  They sit naturally in their surroundings and are perfectly manicured.  The surrounds by and large are shaved areas.  Given the fast and firm fairways, and the difficultly in holding the greens with a poorly struck shot, the ground game is alive and well at Diamond Creek.  Ed is correct; if you're unfamiliar with these greens you can be in for a bit of shock.  My excellent caddie gave me reads that I just couldn't believe, but he was invariably correct.  You do not want to be putting "down the moutain."  

I personally love the par 5's, even if the two on the front are a bit similar.  The only negatives I can see at all are that 9 would be a superior finisher, and depending on the tees used, the par 3's can be of similar length.

The clubhouse, while large, is truly a refuge for the golfer, and the staff was amazing.

I have played many Fazio course, and this is hands down the best I've ever seen.  I played The River Course at Kiawah just a few weeks earlier, and while it is an outstanding course,  it's not even on the same planet as GC.

[Carl Nichols]

I have played many Fazio course, and this is hands down the best I've ever seen.  I played The River Course at Kiawah just a few weeks earlier, and while it is an outstanding course,  it's not even on the same planet as GC.

Will:
To be clear, I wasn't trying to compare the River Course at Kiawah to Diamond Creek (which I haven't played), but to Cassique at Kiawah, which was designed by Watson and is more highly ranked.   

[Bart Bradley]

Ed's post on this topic is what GCA.com should be:  balanced, thoughtful, and well-written.

I have some additional thoughts on Diamond Creek:

1.  I am fascinated that the course so often asks the player to challenge hazards to obtain the best angle or preferred position.  Quite often, the course offers what appears to be a "safe direction", but in fact, the apparent "safe direction" actually puts the player in a compromised position.  Right from the first tee,  players face this dilemma...there is a hazard down the right side, but missing into the left rough makes for a nearly impossible approach angle.   On many holes, trying to get up and down from the wrong side of the green is nearly impossible and, at least for my eye, the wrong side is generally the safer appearing miss.  For those Fazio naysayers, these traits go against many of the stereotypical complaints.

2.  Number 1 does not ease you into your round.  It is a ball buster.  It may be the toughest opening hole in NC.  I think you could make arguments about whether you like hard or easy first holes...but that is another thread.

3.  The greensite for the eighth hole is magnificently natural.  The hole is bunkerless.  Nothing about this hole fits into the typical complaints about Fazio's designs.

4.  The ninth hole IS the best finishing hole in NC (I am not really joking  ).  They really should reverse the nines. 

5.  The club is willing to make some good changes, witnessed by the removal of a bunker on the outside of the 13th hole.  An already good hole is now even better.

6.  I am not a fan of par 4s that play straight downhill and accordingly don't love number 16.  I admit this hole handles that situation better than most of its type and allows monster hitters like Ed to hit it nearly 400 yards if they hit it down the right side of the fairway! 

7.  The 18th hole plays best from the back tees as a finisher...but it should be the ninth hole anyway.

8.  The course is a 10 in terms of condition.  The terms "fast and firm" get thrown around here frequently.  It is a tremendous testament to the construction and maintenance of the course that, in the mountain environment, Diamond Creek is truly firm and truly fast.

9.  I am ashamed to admit that I haven't yet walked the course.  On my next visit I want to walk!

Bart

[jim_lewis]

I can appreciate Ed Oden's reluctance to comment on his own course. I rarely comment on mine unless someone is seeking factual info about them. I am a members of clubs that have a total of 5 Fazio courses, so I figure that if I compliment one of the courses (and I am not a big fan of all of them myself), I just be subjected to more challenges than I care to deal with.

Having said all of that, I want to add my compliments to Diamond Creek, which I have played only once. On that occasion I played with an assistant pro as a guide and we started on #10. I agree completely with the suggestion that the nines should be flipped.
In my opinion, Diamond Creek is the best of the mountain courses in NC. Yes, I have played Wade Hamptin (many times) and Grandfather. Never played Mountain Top. For starters, it is amazing to find a NC mountain course that plays fast and firm. Most of its attributes and weaknesses have been mentioned. I want to focus on the routing. Fazio, quite rightly, has often been criticized for his routings. I think he did an extraordinary job at Diamond Creek. On many hilly courses the holes seem top run up and down slopes or from one hilltop to another. At Diamond Creek he routed holes across the slopes and created a terraced effect. You can see in some of the photos how a hole may run more-or-less parallel to a hole above it. The result is that he avoids extreme elevation changes, so most holes play relatively level. They are more fun to play and more walkable. He used a similar routing strategy at The Quarry in La Quinta, California, which I also admire.

[rjsimper]

One thing that I was apprehensive about in seeing the course at first (once I set aside the beauty) was the fact that the course is obviously terraced on the hillside.

My other notable experience with mountainside, terraced golf is Trump National LA/Ocean Trails, which I think is a poor example of execution.

Needless to say, I was quite pleased when I finished the first 10 holes and never once thought "Jeez, this is narrow" or "If only this course wasn't terraced"

[Sean Leary]

One thing that I was apprehensive about in seeing the course at first (once I set aside the beauty) was the fact that the course is obviously terraced on the hillside.

My other notable experience with mountainside, terraced golf is Trump National LA/Ocean Trails, which I think is a poor example of execution.

Needless to say, I was quite pleased when I finished the first 10 holes and never once thought "Jeez, this is narrow" or "If only this course wasn't terraced"

Speaking of terraced courses, which do you prefer, Sagebrush or DC?

[JNC Lyon]

Wow. This place is beautiful...... Thanks for posting the pics Ryan.

JNC... Not every course needs blowout bunkers. Variety baby, variety is good. I would have rather seen grass faced bunkers with less movement then the ones they have now.  Certainly not anything rugged.

Ed, If money is not a big deal on the maintenance staff you guys could visually benefit from a step-cut. What kind of Turf do you have?

I don't necessarily think the course would have to have blowout bunkers.  However, it looks the clean, wavy bunker shapes with blinding white sand do not fit into the setting.  How about deeper bunkers with turf faces?  To me, there are several shapes that would look better than what I see in Ryan's photos.  I have not played the course, so I cannot comment on how feasible those sorts of bunkers would be.  I am just throwing out ideas.

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