[PCCraig]

Sand Hills
Pacific Dunes
Whistling Straits
Bandon Dunes
Ballyneal
Sebonack
The Ocean Course at Kiawah
Kingsley Club

So much of modern golf design construction has focused on three types of courses: residential courses, remote “retreat/resort” courses, and restorations. In looking at the best modern courses in the United States, I’m hard pressed to find one that was built in the recent past that has been within 10 miles of a major metropolitan area that has not been tied to residential sales and would be considered “golf only.”

Obviously the cost of the land is the major factor in planning and building a successful golf facility, and either a resort or residential lots are generally needed to recoup the cost of the land. (And with the current economic situation residential developments are next to impossible to pull off). Either that or a developer must go out in search of quality land that is remote and less expensive.

My point is that there now seems to be no middle ground, and that the great classic clubs where a club (granted remote at the time) was formed around a golf course and a golfing membership with little or no residential home site is no longer a viable option.

Many new projects close to metropolitan areas are built on landfills, industrial sites, or old airfields, and each feature their own design issues. For example, long cart rides and unwalkable designs, undesirable views, etc…

So, what’s next for golf course architecture in the various metropolitan areas across the country and world? Is new design dead as we know it? Will another great golf course be built within a metropolitan area ever again? Can a top-10 golf course be built on an old landfill, an abandoned industrial site and the like or are the obstacles too big?  Will the future in design be in restoration? Or in economic development as it was at East Lake in ATL and Harbor Shores in Michigan?

[Mac Plumart]

What did Tom Doak recently do in Detroit?

[Jud_T]

Pat,

It would seem that the simple availability of land/cost wuld limit these projects to public rather than private development.  Although I bet you can get a good price on 160 acres in downtown Detroit.

[David_Tepper]

Bayonne & Liberty National (across the Hudson River from NYC) show that "golf only" courses developed on less than "prime" urban sites are still possible, albeit with initiation fees well into six-figures.

[JESII]

Speaking only on direct experience of metro Philadelphia, there's too much product for a smart person to try a new one at this particular moment. We'll see some consolidation (Hansen and Talamore are doing it right now) but that will not be architecture focussed initially. Eventually these clubs will look to distinguish themselves from the local competition and just might start from scratch with a modern top flight designer...that to me is the only way you'll get high end modern design in the close suburbs any time soon...after the new ownership is making a profit and wants to jump up a tier.

[Melvyn Morrow]

 8)Only in the minds of some

Melvyn

[J_ Crisham]

Pat, Chicago Highlands is pretty good and is fairly urban. Top 100 modern potential-very nice greens IMO.

[Bob_Huntley]

Pat,

The only urban areas with which I am familiar in the US are Los Angeles  and San Francisco. I would hazard a guess that LACC's land, if cleared for any sort of commercial development  would be worth many hundreds of millions of dollars. It might be difficult to find suitable terrain on San Francisco to build another course.

Bob

[Michael Huber]

It really would be nice to see more courses on brownfields across the country.  Of course, the real bummer is that these sites really are expensive to clean up.  I can think of a ton of sites around pittsburgh that could fit the bill....particularly the site of the old duquesne works thats a bit south of pittsburgh right along the monangahela river. 

So there is hope for urban golf all along the rust belt, its just going to cost a ton. 

[Mike Sweeney]

In looking at the best modern courses in the United States, I’m hard pressed to find one that was built in the recent past that has been within 10 miles of a major metropolitan area that has not been tied to residential sales and would be considered “golf only.”

How many "historic" courses were actually built within 10 miles, when they were built, of a metropolitan area other than the San Francisco golf courses?

Garden City was farmlands, Merion, Pine Valey, Winchester (MA)...... Baltimore CC moved along with Overbrook. I just don't see any "very good or great" golf courses that were actually built in urban areas.

My understanding is that almost all of the current urban courses were built in suburban areas that became urban. I just don't see where there was ever any great "urban" architecture.

[Carl Johnson]

In looking at the best modern courses in the United States, I’m hard pressed to find one that was built in the recent past that has been within 10 miles of a major metropolitan area that has not been tied to residential sales and would be considered “golf only.”

How many "historic" courses were actually built within 10 miles, when they were built, of a metropolitan area other than the San Francisco golf courses?

Garden City was farmlands, Merion, Pine Valey, Winchester (MA)...... Baltimore CC moved along with Overbrook. I just don't see any "very good or great" golf courses that were actually built in urban areas.

My understanding is that almost all of the current urban courses were built in suburban areas that became urban. I just don't see where there was ever any great "urban" architecture.

Mike, you just beat me to it.  I'm a member of an urban golf club, Carolina GC, in Charlotte.  Yet when it was built in 1929 it was on the outskirts of the town on dairy farmland.  Same story for Charlotte Country Club and Myers Park Country Club (Charlotte), both dating from the early part of the last century.  When built, they were in the country.  Now "in town."  In the past 30 years or so there was only one piece of "undeveloped" urban land that could have been the home of a golf course in urban Charlotte (not sure if 9 or 18), but it became an infill housing development.

[Mike Sweeney]

Mike, you just beat me to it.  I'm a member of an urban golf club, Carolina GC, in Charlotte.  Yet when it was built in 1929 it was on the outskirts of the town on dairy farmland.  In the past 30 years or so there was only one piece of "undeveloped" urban land that could have been the home of a golf course in urban Charlotte (not sure if 9 or 18), but it became an infill housing development.

Interesting timing as Roger and I share time spent in upstate NY and he sent me a great email invitation for the Dixie Cup today to play your club. Unfortunately a longshot as my wife is running the NYC Marathon in 3 weeks, but I digress.

London would seem to be the logical answer and I have always worshiped The Addington from afar.

[Tom_Doak]

The retail value of land has made urban golf Impossible to develop for the past 40-50 years.

The only chances in urban areas are redevelopment of failed or boring courses.  Common Ground was an old AFB course at the edge of Denver.  We also have a similar project on tap in Japan ... though even the "urban" courses in Tokyo are pretty far out from downtown.

[Tim Gavrich]

Hartford Golf Club is pretty close to this kind of setting, I'd say.  Same with the CC of Farmington.

I think a great golf course could be routed through a portion of Central Park.

[mike_beene]

Dallas National can't be more than four miles from downtown Dallas.If it had been built north or east of downtown the land would have been very expensive.It is a beautiful but perhaps severe site that feels isolated and rural but is neither.

[Tim Martin]

Hartford Golf Club is pretty close to this kind of setting, I'd say.  Same with the CC of Farmington.

I think a great golf course could be routed through a portion of Central Park.

Tim-With both courses being approximately 100 years old I think the point that Carl and Mike Sweeney previously made would also apply here. These courses were not in urban settings when constructed. As far as a course truly having an "urban" setting I would propose Weequahic Park in Newark New Jersey.

[Sam Morrow]

Dallas National can't be more than four miles from downtown Dallas.If it had been built north or east of downtown the land would have been very expensive.It is a beautiful but perhaps severe site that feels isolated and rural but is neither.

I dunno Mike, Dallas National is pretty urban if you ask this boy from the burbs.

[Carl Rogers]

You might be right .... but should we be cynical?

I think there will circumstances when there is a combination of:
- brownfields
- edges of wetlands and bodies of water,  golf may be a good buffer
- irregular property shapes
- golf philanthropists with cash and desire
- demand for affordable, short and sporty courses adjacent to neighborhoods that allow youngsters to actually walk
where these types of facilities could happen.

Great may be more a function of what the course(s) represent in context rather than what they actually are compared against others.

If Lester George is reading, he may want to weigh in Lambert's Point if he can.

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