Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?

[Scott_Burroughs]

Thomas P,

What Ran told us about Dormie was true AT THE TIME (he wouldn't lie on a public board...HIS board), but that was VERY BRIEF.  The situation apparently changed very quickly from the limited public model back to the current private model....this was told here after Ran's post (apparently you missed it), so Ran didn't need to reiterate it.  

[Thomas Patterson]

As the moderator of this site he should have made a correction announcement if the situation changed...why is this such an outrageous expectation?

I think someone in a previous thread suggested, it will be quite interesting when DC is selling $30 twilight rounds on golfnow

The attitude that dormie is portraying to me screams southern elitism at it's finest

[Brent Hutto]

The attitude that dormie is portraying to me screams southern elitism at it's finest

Hate to keep picking on you but you're talking about is not something the club is "portraying" as much as it is an attitude that is being attributed to the Dormie Club by people holding forth on this forum. I have seen no official policies, advertisements, pronouncement, web sites or other material provided by the Dormie Club evincing any attitude whatsoever, good or bad.

Once again, par for the course around here lately.

[Thomas Patterson]

The attitude that dormie is portraying to me screams southern elitism at it's finest

Hate to keep picking on you but you're talking about is not something the club is "portraying" as much as it is an attitude that is being attributed to the Dormie Club by people holding forth on this forum. I have seen no official policies, advertisements, pronouncement, web sites or other material provided by the Dormie Club evincing any attitude whatsoever, good or bad.

Once again, par for the course around here lately.

I would love to see "official" policies as well, but again i think they change from person to person or depending on who you are.  They probably can't afford to produce anything either, which makes their attitude even more confusing!!!

[Adam_Messix]

The last time I checked, The Dormie Club is a privately held establishment that can publish or not publish their policies as THEY see fit and it's none of our business unless they announce it to us. 

Incidentally, the Dormie Club has a fabulous golf course that is a real joy to play.  It's plenty wide enough except at the one point where it needs to be narrow and that's the approach to 6.  14 is one of the coolest short par fours out there. 

[K. Krahenbuhl]

The attitude that dormie is portraying to me screams southern elitism at it's finest

Hate to keep picking on you but you're talking about is not something the club is "portraying" as much as it is an attitude that is being attributed to the Dormie Club by people holding forth on this forum. I have seen no official policies, advertisements, pronouncement, web sites or other material provided by the Dormie Club evincing any attitude whatsoever, good or bad.

Once again, par for the course around here lately.

I would love to see "official" policies as well, but again i think they change from person to person or depending on who you are.  They probably can't afford to produce anything either, which makes their attitude even more confusing!!!

Thomas,

It looks like you can contact the club here 910-947-3240 or here 6033 Beulah Hill Church Road, West End, NC  27376.  I would consider your attitude before making that contact though or they will likely tell you to get lost no matter what their policy is.

[Brent Hutto]

TP,

One request. If you do contact the Dormie Club directly, please don't mention the name "Golf Club Atlas". There are still a good many of us around here who would greatly appreciate that small favor.

[Thomas Patterson]

I spoke with Paul the pro right after Ran made his announcement that it was public.   I was beyond courteous, respectful, and explained my passion for architecture and desire to see the course and if course happily paying any guest fee needed.  Everyone knows what I was told. I never mentioned this website or Ran's post. 

I'm sure I can call now and have the same response as I did then.  However, once they really can't afford their bills again, they'll gladly take my money

For the record, this was the FIRST and ONLY "private@ course I have called to try and play. The only reason I called was b/c Ran said it was public.  I've played 3 private clubs in my life

Brent - please read above

[Eric Smith]

 However, once they really can't afford their bills again, they'll gladly take my money

Yes, beyond courteous...

[Thomas Patterson]

Eric - call Paul ogelsbly and I promise you he will ( if he remembers my name) tell you that I was nice and courteous in our conversation. Why wouldn't I be? 

[Rory Connaughton]

This thread needs to die.  Thanks for the great photos. Dormie is an excellent course and worthy of this group's attention. 

[Jud_T]

Thomas,

If playing Dormie Club is that important to you, you have two choices:

1.  Save your pennies and join a golf club that will have you and make inquiries through the proper channels..

2.  Stop whining like a bitch and perhaps you'll get invited to a GCA event at a private club in your area sometime...

You may think this is all Southern Elitism, but when you look up "why private clubs only allow outside play from certain other clubs via proper inquiry" in the dictionary, there's a link to this thread and your obstinate behavior here...

[Eric Smith]

Eric - call Paul ogelsbly and I promise you he will ( if he remembers my name) tell you that I was nice and courteous in our conversation. Why wouldn't I be? 

Thomas,

I believe you that you were courteous on the phone with the professional. But then you took a swipe at them regarding their finances in your last post. Thus my comment.

[Thomas Patterson]

It's hard to not be frustrated at this point and from everything that has been told to me on and offline I don't think that's a swipe.

[C. Squier]

It's hard to not be frustrated at this point and from everything that has been told to me on and offline I don't think that's a swipe.

Why are you frustrated?  Do you really feel slighted that the information Ran gave you didn't turn out to be?  You didn't book a flight and show up at the doorstep, you made a simple 5 minute phone call.  Wishing/forecasting a club's demise is absolutely bottom drawer and just plain poor form. 

Harping on anyone for your major inconvenience is laughable.  But Ran?  He's provided a sandbox for us all to play in and you'll sit here and blast him for it?  Maybe Karma herself told you to sit on your thumb at Dormie Club. 

Get over it and yourself. 

[George Pazin]

Man, everyone on this thread needs to take a deep breath. You're all reading a lot more anger into others' posts than intended, I'm sure.

-----

Chip, I'm hoping you'll come back and do a match play between DC and SH, I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to see it. Have you played Old Sandwich? My best friend absolutely loved it.

[Eric Smith]

You're all reading a lot more anger into others' posts than intended, I'm sure.

George,

I don't sense any anger here...maybe some wake up and smell the coffee talk...which is needed! The thread takes a nosedive when constantly putting this question about access and Ran's prior posts at the forefront.  Chip's gone too, which is the worst part. 

I know you like to put the calming blanket on us now and then, and oftentimes it is needed... but 21 posts out of 116 are the same query, on and on about the same thing.


Thomas,

There is nothing personal in my criticism, I assure you.  But I wish you would just call Ran. Talk to him.  It's not a big deal. Things change.  All the time!

Eric

[Thomas Patterson]

It's hard to not be frustrated at this point and from everything that has been told to me on and offline I don't think that's a swipe.

Why are you frustrated?  Do you really feel slighted that the information Ran gave you didn't turn out to be?  You didn't book a flight and show up at the doorstep, you made a simple 5 minute phone call.  Wishing/forecasting a club's demise is absolutely bottom drawer and just plain poor form. 

Harping on anyone for your major inconvenience is laughable.  But Ran?  He's provided a sandbox for us all to play in and you'll sit here and blast him for it?  Maybe Karma herself told you to sit on your thumb at Dormie Club. 

Get over it and yourself. 

I'm not wishing the club's demise, but rather the exact opposite; just not in its current business model.  Presumably from all discussion, it HAS to go at least semi-private to stay afloat and I really hope they can get over their egos to realize this fact, and allow the public in and allow the course to flourish...

If I created a thread similar to Ran's, I would definitely come back and clear up my mis-communication to everyone...

Throwing karma into the equation is absolutely ridiculous as you don't know me at all

Eric - nothing personal at all, but why should I have to call Ran to have him explain a thread he publicly posted here? 

[Thomas Patterson]

To all - I was never trying to offend anyone...I just merely posted on a subject I was passionate about and disagreed with a few.  I'm done questioning the access, etc.  I have a great weekend ahead, 2 nights of wonderful music and friends, and in the grand scheme of things, it's just one more course in the U.S. I probably won't ever play.

Again, no disrespect meant to anyone

cheers

[Tony Gorski]

Great post Chip.  Unfortunate these threads digress as they do.  Looking forward to talking about golf course architecture one of these days.

I had the good fortune to play Dormie Club w/ Chip.  Unfortunately, the camera shots did no justice to the course.  What an amazing piece of property in the unique rolling sands of North Carolina.  The people there couldn't have been more pleasant and as the course matures, it will be one of the best hands down.

[Brad Tufts]

As the moderator of this site he should have made a correction announcement if the situation changed...why is this such an outrageous expectation?

I think someone in a previous thread suggested, it will be quite interesting when DC is selling $30 twilight rounds on golfnow

The attitude that dormie is portraying to me screams southern elitism at it's finest

Is every private course portraying "southern elitism" by making their own policies?  Who knows, maybe their policy is to misinform...

Thomas....no one owes you anything.  DC as an organization can make rules as they wish.  Public on Tuesdays, public each day for only the 8:37 tee time, public for those whose relatives came over on the Mayflower....or 100% private.  Ran hasn't done anything but apparently annoy you that you can't get a straight answer.

I'd like to know the answer too as I spend a fair amount of time in NC each year, but I'm not willing to call out everyone on the board for not giving me the information that no one seems to have, including the one that makes the site possible.  If we chill out, the info will come out eventually...

[George Freeman]

Chip,

Thanks for the pictures.  I too am confused as to how this thread ended up where it is...it is a shame.

The course looks really good and, quite frankly, much more "finished" than I would have expected after reading some earlier threads.  Did you notice spots that appeared to be "unfinished"?  Was the detailing less, uh, detailed than what you typically see at C&C courses?  From your pics, this does not appear to be the case and as such it would appear that someone did some finishing work.

The course looks a little narrow in certain spots.  Is that the case?  Is missing a fairway as bad as it looks?  

Thanks in advance!

- George

George:

I believe your question strikes at the heart of the "unfinished" and "lack of detail" comments.  When the leadership of this course was different and C and C were actively involved in the process, I was priviledged to play some of the holes.  At that time, there was significant fairway width and balls that missed the fairway were variably punished and nearly always found.   I suspect, given the apparent significant financial stress the course is under, that the areas around the fairway are no longer maintained as many of the original visionaries imagined.  Look, the course is built on an absolutely amazing property with a wide variety of topography and natural features.   The original vision for the course would certainly have helped to maximize the confluence of amazing physicial features and great architects.  When the original vision became blurred and the the leadership changed, some of the details that might have elevated the course to the highest heights have been lost in the transition.  Back when I visited, I firmly believed that if the course had continued on its tragectory that it would land among the elite of all courses...perhaps among the best of the best.  Now, many of the outstanding aspects of this course still exist, making it noteworthy and speciial...but there certainly is a fine line between very good and great and with the loss of vision, I suspect that some feel "great" was lost as well.

This doesn't seem as complicated as everyone is making it.  C and C build very good golf courses.  The property Dormie is built upon is absolutely fabulous.  The financial times have lead to compromises that affect some people's opinion of the current product.   I suspect that the current leadership is in a constant state of flux and that noone is exactly sure how to proceed in today's climate....how many courses will not be under stress with millions and millions of debt.   The messages from Dormie are likely to be blurry and changeable...who would expect otherwise in today's climate.

Finally, I resent the implication that Ran is a disgruntled member and slanting his views accordingly.  This is absurd, unfair and baseless.  His reporting here has always been beyond reproach and he deserves more than the benefit of the doubt.  It is shameful to imply otherwise.

I wish Dormie had been able to proceed under the original vision and plan...but it is, what it is.  For the naysayers, the pictures do NOT do the property justice.

Bart

Please come back Chip

Thanks for the info Bart. I assume what your talking about is the maintenance of the scrub directly off the fairways?

Chip: How playable were the areas beyond the fairways?

[Jeremy Aisenberg]

I have heard from several people who have played it that Dormie is excellent, though along with Old Mac, I would add Ballyhack as a very likely need inclusion in the top 20-25 modern courses list.

But Jeremy, Ballyhack wasn't designed by Doak or C&C.

Unfortunately I have not played Ballyhack. If it is anything near as good as his redo at Old White, Top 20 should be within reach for Ballyhack.

Jim, i'd love to host a GCA group at Ballyhack.  Drop me a line and we can try to put something together.  I could use an excuse to head down!!!

[jeffwarne]

As the moderator of this site he should have made a correction announcement if the situation changed...why is this such an outrageous expectation?

I think someone in a previous thread suggested, it will be quite interesting when DC is selling $30 twilight rounds on golfnow

The attitude that dormie is portraying to me screams southern elitism at it's finest

Thomas,
My guess is your rants have increased the number of "Southern elitists" reactions you will get when atempting to play other courses (private and public)
....regardless of their geographical location

[John_Cullum]

I am curious as to how "southern elitism" is somehow different than the elitism one may encounter at Chicago Golf Club, Merion, Fisher's Island, etc.