[Jason Sills]

Trying to do a 7-10 day trip to Scotland.  I dont need any hidden gems my first trip.  Please rank the following in order of ?

Thanks,
Jason

Old Course
Turnberry
Royal Troon
Muirfield
Carnoustie
Royal Dornoch
Cruden Bay
Royal Aberdeen
Castle Stuart
Kingsbarn
North Berwick
Loch Lomond
Western Gailes
Prestwick

[Wade Schueneman]

I will simplify the list by one.  I consider the Old Course a must play (and my favorite course in Scotland).

As for the others, can you provide a bit of info.

1) Does price matter? 

2) Do you like quirky golf or "fair" golf or a nice mix?

3) Do you think that getting there is half of the fun?

4) Are there any parts of Scotland that you really want to see?

5) How important is the history of a course to you?

[Bill_McBride]

Jason, I would suggest picking just two areas and not spending too much travel time.

Having said that, I would recommend Fife (St Andrews) and East Lothian (Muirfield and North Berwick) as a great way to start your golf travels in Scotland. There are a lot of great second choices in those two areas.

[Brian Freeman]

Jason,

First of all, you can't go wrong with anywhere on this list.

Here is my two cents, having just done this for the first time back in June/July:

1) You've come to the right place.  Lots of knowledgeable people on here.  If you haven't already, look up Kyle Henderson's pictorials, many of the club websites are very limited in course details.  And even pictures don't do many of these clubs justice.

2) Know your playing companions.  Are they in good physical shape and seeking to play as much golf as possible, do they want to see the country, and how important is it to everyone to see "Open Venues" vs. just quality links golf?  Are they early risers or are the pubs a priority?

3) Without question, it is worth the trip to the Highlands to play Royal Dornoch.  But don't go unless you can allocate 2 nights of your trip to staying there to truly experience the place.  Travel up in the evening, play 36 the first day, and 18 more the next day before you leave.  If you're going in the summer, there is a £40 twilight special after 6/6:30pm that is arguably the best deal and one of the greatest experiences in golf.  And trust me, you will get it in before darkness.

4) If price matters, Cruden Bay and Royal Aberdeen are exceptional courses that can be paired together and at a significant price savings to Turnberry and Troon.

5) Pay attention to geography as much as your priority list.  As much as possible, plan your trip so you can spend 2-3 nights at each destination.  You want to spend as much of your trip as possible playing golf and as little time as possible packing and repacking.  Even if you plan well, the time goes by very quickly.  In the interest of disclosure, we played 3 of the 4 areas (Highlands/Dornoch, Aberdeen, St Andrews/Edinburgh) and made the decision to save the Southwest coast for next time.  Many will recommend doing only 2 of the 4.

[Andy Shulman]

To respond to your original question, my rankings of the courses I've played would be: (1) The Old Course; (2) North Berwick; (3) Carnoustie; (4) Kingsbarns; (5) Prestwick.  I definitely second Bill's suggestion of basing your trip out of Fife and/or East Lothian.  Doing so will keep you out of the car and on the golf course and allow you to very comfortably knock off:

  Fife: The Old Course and Kingsbarns
  East Lothian: North Berwick and Muirfield
  Angus: Carnoustie

I also strongly encourage you to spend $25 and pick up Allan McAllister Ferguson's Golf in Scotland.  It will save you time, money and hassles.

With whatever time, energy and funds you have left, you can take the reasonable drive across to Ayrshire and pick up Turnberry, Prestwick, Troon and/or Western Gailes.  Remember that the original railroad tie-filled bunker is not on a Pete Dy course, but at Prestwick.  Lots of history there.

Finally, I would encourage you to play at least one local course, where you might just meet some actual Scots rather than wealthy Americans and Asians.  In Fife, I strongly recommend either Lundin Links (an Open Championship qualifying site and profiled in the Courses By Country section of the site) or Golf Club House-Elie.

Enjoy!

[Bob_Huntley]

Jason,

I would suggest that you don't try to do too much and concentrate on the following:

Old Course
Muirfield
Carnoustie
Royal Dornoch
Cruden Bay
North Berwick
Western Gailes
Prestwick


You can always go back and increase your enjoyment of Scottish golf.


Bob

[Gary Slatter]

what month are you planning to visit?

[Jason Sills]

1) Does price matter?   YES IT DOES.  Its a group of 16 guys and some need to be on a budget so all will be on a budget.

2) Do you like quirky golf or "fair" golf or a nice mix?  Define quirky in terms of something I might understand locally?

3) Do you think that getting there is half of the fun?  Dont want to waste too much time on travel.

4) Are there any parts of Scotland that you really want to see?  NOPE, just golf!

5) How important is the history of a course to you?  I do like courses with history.

[Jason Sills]

what month are you planning to visit?

JULY 2011.  And we havent made any arrangements yet so I am worried about tee time availability.

[Jason Sills]

Do people make the arrangements themselves or do it with the assistance of a tour operator?   I am planning a trip for 16 guys in JULY 2011.

Self drive or driver?

[Sean_A]

Jason

Its probably already too late for TOC with a party the size of yours in July.  If you must have guaranteed times check out a tour operator.  However, you can always stop in town for two days and try the ballot and walk up games.  This isn't as bad as it sounds becasue St Andrews is nice and there are plenty of other good courses nearby that can serve as back-ups for tose who fail. 

These courses are all expensive so price isn't much of an issue no matter how you slice it.  Below are the seven courses I would focus on in an ideal world, but they are spread over kingdom come and not iudeal to do one trip consisting of 7-10 days. 

Prestwick/Western Gailes
Cruden Bay/Royal Aberdeen
Royal Dornoch
Old Course
North Berwick

To create a smoother trip I would suggest the following over 7-10 days:

Prestwick (play over 2 days)
Western Gailes (1 day)
Muirfield (1 day)
North Beriwck (play over 2 days)
TOC - spend 3 nights in town can play Carnoustie and Kingsbarns as well

Ciao

[Kyle Henderson]

I spent 14 days there in 2009, touring or playing the following of the courses you listed. All are worthy of a visit (great courses with spectacular scenery. For a 7 day trip, pick two regions. Given 10 days, you might add a third.

Highlands
Royal Dornoch, Castle Stuart ($$$), (add Nairn)

Aberdeenshire
Cruden Bay, Royal Aberdeen ($), (add Murcar)

Fife
Old Course ($$)
Carnoustie($$)
Kingsbarn($$$)

East Lothian
Muirfield ($$$$, must book foursomes in advance, but includes lunch and full day (fourball/foursomes)
North Berwick

[jeffwarne]

Do people make the arrangements themselves or do it with the assistance of a tour operator?   I am planning a trip for 16 guys in JULY 2011.

Self drive or driver?

Jason,
Get on it today!
I've done many trips on short notice but never for July and never for 16 guys-much less both.
I'd recommend a trip planner for a group that large (although I've never used one)
I'd also hire a driver of a 20-30 seat bus.

Sam Baker with Haversham and Baker is top notch if you go with a trip planner, but there have been many other good selections on this board-just remember trip planners have a vested interest in you spending money.

With 16 guys you would do well to rent several cottages rather than a hotel-they're usually very reasonable (althogh they may not work with you on stays of less than a week in July)

Expect to pay a pretty penny if you go with the courses you have listed-you could play quite a few high quality "hidden gems"(and have more genuine memorable,welcoming, local experiences at an arguably better course) for the price of one  round at Troon or Loch Lomond .

Enjoy!

[Mark Chaplin]

First advice if you plan to play premium clubs in peak season plan two years in advance. You are already too late for Muirfield and TOC.

VAT or sales tax goes up to 20% in January if you book through an agent you pay VAT on green fees so avoid this.

You want a budget but then name all of the most expensive courses in Scotland, think £150/$225 a round on average for the courses you have listed. This is the perfect place to ask if you want a mega trip playing 3 or 4 expensive clubs then some cheaper but wonderful courses.

As Muirfield is fully booked I'd go St Andrews for 3 days. Book to play New, Jubilee and if you like false breasts Kingsbarns, if not Elie, Lundin or Crail. Then try your luck in the ballot, if you are there during the Open you maybe lucky.

Then drive up the East coast and play 2 or 3 of Carnoustie, Royal Aberdeen, Cruden Bay and Nairn (Walker Cup venue so not second rate). This will get you to Inverness where you can play Castle Stuart (expensive but getting rave reviews). Then head up to Dornoch and play Royal Dornoch and Brora over say 3 days. Far cheaper than Ayrshire and great courses. Sneak a game at Boat of Garten on the way back a real hidden gem and great value.

Hire four large cars and forget agents, coaches and drivers if budget is a priority.

[Mark Pearce]

Jason,

As has been said, you're already struggling for some (many) of these courses in July.  Also, unless you are very well connected you can forget Loch Lomond (though why anyone would want to play a typical American parkland course on a first visit to Scotland is entirely beyond me anyway).

Also, I know you have given the (sadly fairly standard) "no hidden gems" notice, I do wonder why.  There are a lot of excellent courses in Scotland not on your list which you are likely to enjoy just as much and for rather less £££.  Some of these aren't really hidden gems, anywauy.  I'd struggle to classify Lundin Links, Crail or Elie, for instance, as hidden in any way.

[Wade Schueneman]

If you can get reservations at TOC, I suggest the following 9 day trip

F CB
S RA
S Carnoustie
M TOC
T New or Eden
W NB
T Muirfield
F Prestwick
S Western Gailes
 
Have you considered playing Machrihanish and the Machrie?

Troon and Turnberry are expensive if you want guaranteed tee times for large groups (which is why those are absent).

[Jim Eder]

Jason,

I have been in your shoes and have gone through what you are going through now. I wish I had this site and the help of these fine responses.  The responses are of the highest quality so I am not sure I can add much. I would agree that it would be best to try to limit the driving and base for several days and then move on.  You have a huge advantage of long days at the time you are going. This is very difficult as it is trying to pick your favourite child. One loves them all but here it goes.......................

My list of favs are as follows. It really depends on what you are looking for, dramatic vistas or solid golf or history but here is my best attempt. Old Course (and the New course is mighty fine), Carnoustie (easy drive from St Andrews), Turnberry, Cruden Bay (Murcar is also very fine and I would rate above the bottom 2 on this list), Royal Dornoch, Muirfield, Kingsbarns, Troon, Royal Aberdeen, North Berwick, Prestwick, Western Gailes, and Loch Lomond (visually stunning). I have sadly not had the pleasure of playing Castle Stuart yet bit it looks wonderful and if in the area I would add Nairn and the Carnegie Club to the list. I would also second a suggestion of adding Crail to the list while in Fife. It is great to play the big name courses but if it doesn't happen to work playing Lundin Links, Elie, Ladybank etc in Fife would prove to put a smile on your face and a great memory in your mind.

Like I said before the suggestions I have read are excellent and you will not go wrong at all.  Enjoy!!!  I know you will.

[Shane Wright]

If you can get reservations at TOC, I suggest the following 9 day trip

F CB
S RA
S Carnoustie
M TOC
T New or Eden
W NB
T Muirfield
F Prestwick
S Western Gailes
 
Have you considered playing Machrihanish and the Machrie?

Troon and Turnberry are expensive if you want guaranteed tee times for large groups (which is why those are absent).

Jason, This is a great itinerary by Wade.  It will make the travel pretty easy.  As an FYI, Royal Aberdeen is hosting the Walker Cup in July so it might be closed. 

[Bill_McBride]

Muirfield has only one four ball available in July 2011.  For future reference, here's the booking site:

http://www.muirfield.org.uk/page/Visitors.aspx?dt=2011-Jul-14#calendar

[Adam Lawrence]

I think you need to heed the warnings of some of the others who've already chimed in. Muirfield is currently showing _one_ visitor tee time in the whole of the month of July on its online booking system. Advance bookings for the Old Course take place in September for the following year (if you're prepared to fork out for the Old Course Experience you may be OK, though I don't know if they could accommodate a group of sixteen, and they require a three night minimum stay in summer).

ETA: Bill and I obviously thought the same thing at the same time!

[Jason Topp]

I echo the avoid too much driving advice.  I recommend spending as much time as you can at St. Andrews.  North Berwick, Muifield, Carnoustie and Gleneagles are all a reasonable drive from there so you can do those without changing hotels.

As to your list - here is the order in which I would recommend the courses I have played:

Old Course
Royal Dornoch
Prestwick
North Berwick
Turnberry
Carnoustie
Western Gailes
Royal Troon

Keep in mind that Western Gailes is one of my favorite golf experiences of my lifetime so it really does not matter which courses you pick off that list.  They are all teriffic.  The only one I would hesitate to recommend is Troon - but given its history I would not dissuade you either.

Consider adding Gleneagles Kings.  It is inland but a uniquely beautiful course.

My only comment on the remainder of your list is to question why you would want to go to Loch Lomond. From television it does not seem that different from other Weiskopf courses in other locations.

[Jason Topp]

With a group of 16 with price important. I would suggest splitting the week between St. Andrews and Dornoch. 

Spend several days at St. Andrews and many, if not most of your group can finagle its way on the old course through either the ballot or by getting in line at 5 am and taking open slots each day.  You could simultaneously schedule rounds at other terrific courses within driving distance.  Those wanting additional golf will have many options in the area.

I would schedule a couple of rounds at Royal Dornoch and then fill in with Brora and some of the others (you will need advice from elsewhere on other courses).  Prices are a lot lower in the North.

I can guarantee that your group will rave about the trip and pay a lot less than a tour of all open rota courses.  It also will allow some individual flexibility so that members of your group can schedule their own rounds at the expensive courses if they so choose. 

[Bill_McBride]

With a group of 16 with price important. I would suggest splitting the week between St. Andrews and Dornoch. 

Spend several days at St. Andrews and many, if not most of your group can finagle its way on the old course through either the ballot or by getting in line at 5 am and taking open slots each day.  You could simultaneously schedule rounds at other terrific courses within driving distance.  Those wanting additional golf will have many options in the area.

I would schedule a couple of rounds at Royal Dornoch and then fill in with Brora and some of the others (you will need advice from elsewhere on other courses).  Prices are a lot lower in the North.

I can guarantee that your group will rave about the trip and pay a lot less than a tour of all open rota courses.  It also will allow some individual flexibility so that members of your group can schedule their own rounds at the expensive courses if they so choose. 

Golspie is very good just north of Dornoch.  Nairn is just south of Dornoch, as is Tain.  There is a lot of very good golf up there, and agree with Jason on cost.  Royal Dornoch was just 70 quid if I recall correctly.

The Dornoch - St Andrews split is a great trip.

[Jim Eder]

I have done Royal Dornoch with the Carnegie Club (excellent), Brora (very good), Nairn (wonderful), and Golspie and you can add what looks to be an excellent Castle Stuart (I have not played it yet). And you can base in one hotel if you don't mind a few "drives". I can play Dornoch every day and be happy every day, just a great course, very special.

I would add to the poster about staying in Fife that if you make the trip to Gleneagles I woudl highly suggest the Kings and add the wonderful Queens to the list.  I would pass on the Monarchs or what they now call the Centenary.

I would second Wade's excellent itinerary.

It really depends on how much you are willing to pack and unpack and drive vs the desire to play the "big name" courses. Any way you go you will not go wrong.

[Jim Eder]

Bill, I forgot to mention Tain, thanks for reminding me about it.  You are so correct, Tain is a wonderful course. I would highly recommend it!! There is a lot of great golf up there and the days are very very long in the summer. The more I write about this the more I think I am going to be going to this area next May or June. A wonderful place to spend time.

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