Slow Play

[JNC Lyon]

Rihc is pretty quick, but Young JNC might nip em' with far less weight to lug around and on MUCH younger legs - its hardly fair to compare the two - tee hee. Lets not quibble, both deserve honourary membership to Huntercombe.  Speaking of Huntercombe, I once got Whitty's ass round quickly. When we were in the house he recognized a few chaps that were ahead of us and questioned how we beat them without without going through. Then he glanced at his watch and realized it was only 2.5 hours since we were waiting on the 1st tee off and we aready had drinks in our hands.  It wasn't until then the penny dropped and he realized we skipped a handful of holes.  Long live clubs like Huntercombe even if the pace is a bit too torrid for my liking.  I hate to walk fast because I instinctively feel golf should be a relaxed game.  I like to take time to smell the flowers and enjoy my time rather than feel I am on a forced march.  So I guess I am fairly slow, but I don't hold up many people - the last obvious one was Young JNC, but I think the kid is on speed or something.  I watched him for a spell around a clubhouse and he does everything fast.  

One thing I would mention about slow play compared to the old days.  Back then 2balls were the norm whereas today 4balls are the norm.  Thats a huge difference in time right there.  Add in courses which are often 600-1000 yards longer and much of the difference of time is accounted for. 

Ciao  

Thanks for the nomination Sean.  It's true, I do like to play quickly.  It's nothing drug-induced either , it's merely a question of not wasting time.  I have played Oak Hill West in 2 hours in the early morning.  It doesn't involve sprinting, it is just a matter of hitting your shot in a reasonable amount of time.  I figure I will only be worse if I take a long time to think things over before the shot, so I take a practice swing, line it up, and hit it.

Huntercombe is also a great course for playing fast: it is relatively short, it has a very intimate routing, and it is essentially flat after the first four holes.  Really, it's a course and club after my own heart.

Fast play is also one reason I love foursomes.  Four people can play in under 3 hours. In fact, four people play foursomes at the right course will play faster than a twosome.  I wish the American courses would adopt this format.

[Mark Pearce]

John,

Foursomes is a fast game.  My 78 year old father in law expects to get round Muirfield in a foursome in two and a half hours.  They have paths there from each green to the middle of the next fairway (or green) for the players not hitting the next tee shot to walk ahead.

[PCCraig]

I usually play pretty fast. As a single with no one in front of me I can usually play in under 3 hours while not feeling like I'm in a rush. Now, if I want to get holes in fast (like in twilight) I can get around in about 2 hours.

It's funny....who's going to admit that they are a slow player?

Anyone have an anecdotal story of a fast time for a group more than two.
cause 3 hours by one's self or in twoball ain't fast..........

I said "under 3 hours"...again a realistic time when having a relaxing round.

Myself and 3 others have a tradition of an annual day where we play (all walking) 36 holes at a local club with little play, have lunch, then head over to another club for 18 more before cocktails and dinner. Each round is about a 3 hour max for a foursome. Anyone can play a 3 hour round, but doing it three times in a day is another story.

[JNC Lyon]

John,

Foursomes is a fast game.  My 78 year old father in law expects to get round Muirfield in a foursome in two and a half hours.  They have paths there from each green to the middle of the next fairway (or green) for the players not hitting the next tee shot to walk ahead.

I love it.  Deal is similar, although the layout is not as conducive to foursomes because the three par threes are even numbers.  Even so, Deal has paths and benches to accommodate foursomes play, which is the main game there.

[PCCraig]

John,

Foursomes is a fast game.  My 78 year old father in law expects to get round Muirfield in a foursome in two and a half hours.  They have paths there from each green to the middle of the next fairway (or green) for the players not hitting the next tee shot to walk ahead.

Mark:

I wish more the States played foursomes on a regular basis. It's really fun and perfect for the second round of a 36 hole day but unfortunatley here most players have a "bang for my buck" mentality and would rather not hit only half the shots during a round.

[Garland Bayley]

GCA guy - pretty quick
GCA guy with a camera - pretty damn slow 

I took 5 hours to play as a single on the first course I photographed. I didn't hold anyone up, because I got out early in the rain, and the course is fairly lightly played anyway. Much of the time was spent protecting the camera from moisture.

I've gotten a lot faster since then. Playing with a partner allows me to snap pictures while he or they are playing.

[Jed Peters]

I took 5 hours, 45 minutes once to play the MPCC Dunes course in a 4 some, and we were the only group on the course.

It was one of the best rounds of my life, in terms of sheer enjoyment.

[Dan Herrmann]

But let's be real.  If I'm playing an architectural gem for the first time, I'm going to slow down to have a look.

I don't care what you're opinion is of Augusta, but the place is a sensory treat, and you'd be foolish to rush there (assuming your first time).

[Garland Bayley]

...
That said, watching the ball until it rolls out is probably a faster way of playing (if you have hit it wayward a bit) than walking off the tee quickly and not marking your line and seeing where the ball ends up, no?

Jeff,

Some of us can't see far enough to see where the ball rolls out to and still play fast not needing the wait. Kinda blows that theory out of the water.

[Mark Pearce]

Mark:

I wish more the States played foursomes on a regular basis. It's really fun and perfect for the second round of a 36 hole day but unfortunatley here most players have a "bang for my buck" mentality and would rather not hit only half the shots during a round.

Interestingly at this year's BUDA there were complaints that we didn't play any foursomes matches.  Almost exclusively from the US team. 

[JNC Lyon]

But let's be real.  If I'm playing an architectural gem for the first time, I'm going to slow down to have a look.

I don't care what you're opinion is of Augusta, but the place is a sensory treat, and you'd be foolish to rush there (assuming your first time).

This is a valid point. I think every great course deserves some time for enjoyment.  When I played Prestwick, I spent 10 minutes around several of the greens trying different shots and putts.  A course that allows you to do this has to be fun, no?  However, I think you can take time to enjoy a course and still play quickly.  I can play by myself in 3 hours and not feel like I am rushing.  Furthermore, I figure I will not take in every feature of a golf course the first time I play it.

Playing quickly is not a matter of rushing.  It is matter of moving efficiently, spending more time walking and observing between shots than going through a pre-shot routine.  Golf is a sport to give you physical exercise and bring about enjoyment of nature.  The best way to do this is to play a brisk pace.

[Richard Choi]

I know we all talk a good game, but in practice, we have some room to improve.

I have yet to play in a GCA event where a round lasted shorter than 4:30. I just find it a bit amusing that we are so gung ho about the Slow Play topic.

However, I will vouch that Jim Colton and Rob Riggs play as fast as anyone I know.

[Dan King]

My name is Dan King and I am a slow golfer.

I didn't use to be. Age and weight have conspired to slow down my game. I don't walk as fast as I used to. Part of it is age and weight but part of it is also developing a game around 5 hour Bay Area rounds.

However, I do not hold other golfers up. I will wave groups through if not on a crowded course and I have been known to skip a hole or two if my group is starting to fall behind. I'll pick up my golf ball and head for the next tee, while the rest of my group finishes out. Generally a threesome can move faster than four, and they get caught back up.

I'd rather miss some golf than be rude.

Cheers,
Dan King

Manners are a sensitive awareness of the feelings of others.  If you have that awareness, you have good manners, no matter which fork you use. 
 --Emily Post

[Dave McCollum]

One of the faster walking rounds I remember was being paired with a couple of flat belly greyhounds from Atlanta at hilly Cruden Bay.  We teed off at around 10 AM and I am sure that they made their 2:30 tee time at Aberdeen forty minutes away.  Their caddies were too pooped to bum my cigarettes.  I packed my own load and didn’t bother with the butts either.  Not all Yanks are slow.

Matter of fact, just yesterday I played a spur-of-moment lunch round between showers with a golfer whose buddies didn’t show up due to the rain.  Just under 2 hours in a cart, if that counts.  No rush, just ready golf.  He shot 2 over for the 18 and I…well, never mind, got an ass whipping.  The point often overlooked in the slow play discussions is that most golfers actually play better at a faster pace.  No time for swing thoughts.  Just hit the freaking ball and putt decisively.

[JESII]

Dave,

Is it common to take multiple showers with the same golfer where you're from?



Shivas,

Weak!

[C. Squier]

I know a bunch of guys who are slow on this board, but I ain't sayin' who ....

Why not?  Wouldn't it be more beneficial to the game to definitively point out who the offenders are instead of generically blaming a line drawn on a ball for slow play?

[Jim Colton]

I know we all talk a good game, but in practice, we have some room to improve.

I have yet to play in a GCA event where a round lasted shorter than 4:30. I just find it a bit amusing that we are so gung ho about the Slow Play topic.

However, I will vouch that Jim Colton and Rob Riggs play as fast as anyone I know.

Rich,

 I'll take that as a compliment, but I doubt I can hold a candle to Kyle K. or Sir Bob.

[PCCraig]

I know we all talk a good game, but in practice, we have some room to improve.

I have yet to play in a GCA event where a round lasted shorter than 4:30. I just find it a bit amusing that we are so gung ho about the Slow Play topic.

However, I will vouch that Jim Colton and Rob Riggs play as fast as anyone I know.

GCAers are known to play slow when playing together as they spend a lot of time chatting about the GCA around them and not enough time hitting their ball!

[Carl Rogers]

In as much as I hate to say it Tom, Riverfront is a slow course to walk because of the green to tee distance on almost all the holes.  Sadly, the cart cuts at least 45 minutes off the round there.

Jeff B., I validate your statement about green to tee distances being a very significant pace of play factor.  I would add temperature is also a factor... 70F deg is faster than 95F deg.

[Patrick Kiser]

... they spend a lot of time chatting about the GCA around them ...

Otherwise known as ... beard pulling.

[Kenny Baer]

Don't have time to elaborate but
1. Playing a round in under 3hrs while racing around or telling a story about your fastest ever round proves or means what exactly?  Was someone saying that a under 3 or under 2 hr round can't be done? I don't get the point.
2. Golf takes a long time if you are seriously competing or even trying to shoot a score, ie. maybe looking at some putts from the other side of the hole, testing wind, getting an exact yardage. Making the argument you play better when rushing around and not thinking about what you are doing is a fallacy and maybe has happened once, similar to the argument you play faster walking than in a cart, maybe possible on very very few courses but by no means the norm.
3. If playing seriously the length of time the round takes is more determined by the layout, acreage, elevation, green speed, etc .. of the property, than the actual golfer or golfers.
4. If you are playing a good golf course you are seeing for the first time and are worried about how fast you get around then have at it if that is your thing; I personally like to enjoy the expierence and at least attempt to play well, I somehow think I am in the majority with that opinion.

[Garland Bayley]

...
3. If playing seriously the length of time the round takes is more determined by the layout, acreage, elevation, green speed, etc .. of the property, than the actual golfer or golfers.
...

That is one ginormous pile of bull. Put Dustin Johnson on #1 and Ben Crane on #10 of the same course. I bet DJ catches him.

[Dan King]

Kenny Baer writes:
2. Golf takes a long time if you are seriously competing or even trying to shoot a score, ie. maybe looking at some putts from the other side of the hole, testing wind, getting an exact yardage.

If you are not keeping up and holding up other groups, then you are being rude to other golfers. If your score is so much more important than the enjoyment of other golfers around you then you are the definition of a rude golfer.

3. If playing seriously the length of time the round takes is more determined by the layout, acreage, elevation, green speed, etc .. of the property, than the actual golfer or golfers.

Read your point No. 2 again. It is the golfers. They got no consideration for anyone but themselves.

4. If you are playing a good golf course you are seeing for the first time and are worried about how fast you get around then have at it if that is your thing; I personally like to enjoy the expierence and at least attempt to play well, I somehow think I am in the majority with that opinion.

Ain't it freakin' amazing how many rude people play golf?

Cheers,
Dan King

Cyril Walker played so slowly they asked him to hurry up, and he became abusive. He said, "Who the hell are you? I'm, an ex-U.S. Open Champion." This was about 1931, he won the Open in 1924. He said he came out 3,000 miles to play in their diddy-bump tournament (L.A. Open), and they couldn't kick him out, he'd play as slow as he damn well pleased. Well, when he came to the ninth hole, they told him he was disqualified and he said, "The hell I am! I came here to play and I'm going to play." So these two officers picked him up by the elbows and I can still see him being carried up the hill, kicking his legs like a banty -- he was a small man.
 --Paul Runyan

[Mark Pearce]

2. Golf takes a long time if you are seriously competing or even trying to shoot a score, ie. maybe looking at some putts from the other side of the hole, testing wind, getting an exact yardage. Making the argument you play better when rushing around and not thinking about what you are doing is a fallacy and maybe has happened once, similar to the argument you play faster walking than in a cart, maybe possible on very very few courses but by no means the norm.

That's rubbish, too.  Golf takes a long time if 1) you don't bother preparing for your shot (which can include all or any of the above) until it's your turn to play, 2) you do all or any of the above repeatedly, on the same hole, just to make sure that what you saw the first time is what you saw, even if you know damn well it is, 3) don't move on swiftly once you have played your shot, 4) aren't ready to play on the tee when it's your turn and 5) dawdle down the fairway.

No one has said you need to rush or that there's any merit in doing so.  Indeed, good golf cannot be played by rushing.  The counter to that is NOT, however, that slow play ensures good play.  Can you honestly, hand on heart, claim that you approve of some of the appalling slowness of top tour pros?  Watching Furyk, Overton, Fisher and Harrington (and they're not alone) this past weekend was painful.  Do you, honestly, think their quality of play is a result of, or despite, the fact that time freezes whilst they play?

[Colin Macqueen]

I play regularly at my home course in Brisbane where walkers and golf carts share the hallowed ground. It is the worst of all possible worlds. One seems to be continually losing ground as the carts in front race away from you and at the same time you are constantly chivvied by the cart riders behind you who catch up. Very unedifying as the walking foursome starts to rush about and foozle more shots than ever. So a gentle, relaxing, pleasurable walk in the park cannot be enjoyed. I do not play slowly as I am a perfervid Scot but I still want to appreciate and enjoy the golf course. This is never done, in my opinion, when careering around at break-neck speed. Too much emphasis on getting through the round in record breaking time can completely spoil the experience. We should be allowed to at least smell the eucalypt (or heather distant memories) as we sally forth.

Colin

P.S....."I played a spur-of-moment lunch round between showers with a golfer".... the mind boggles.