The PGA of America should let the USGA and R&A run the Ryder Cup

[PCCraig]

This year’s Ryder Cup in Wales is a hot mess. It’s being played on a RTJ II course built specifically for the Ryder Cup as part of a bidding process for the region that looks like it was airlifted from Naples, Florida.

It doesn’t take a genius to realize that October in Wales is going to be very wet and very cold. So why play the event on an inland swamp that drains poorly? Why not play the event on a links course that actually drains naturally? Money, of course. It hasn’t been held on a decently interesting golf course since Walton Health in 1981! The venues since then?

1985: The Belfry
1989: The Belfry
1993: The Belfry
1997: Valderrama GC
2002: The Belfry
2006: The K Club
2010: Celtic Manor

Yuck!

The PGA of America hasn’t been a whole lot better either, and has been hit-or-miss, using the Ryder Cup as a contract negotiation tool in order to sign venues up to host multiple PGA Championships.

The USGA and the R&A on the other hand, has taken their version of the Ryder Cup, the Walker Cup, to some of the best golf courses in the world. Since 1980:

1981: Cypress Point
1985: Pine Valley
1989: Peachtree
1993: Interlachen
1997: Quaker Ridge
2001: Ocean Forest (Sea Island)
2005: Chicago Golf Club
2009: Merion

Since 1980 the R&A has brought the competition to:
1983: Royal Liverpool
1987: Sunningdale
1991: Portmarnock
1995: Royal Portcawl
1999: Nairn
2003: Ganton
2007: Royal County Down
2011: Royal Aberdeen

The main argument for the current placement of the event is that the logistical issues dictate a club able and willing to host the huge undertaking that is the modern Ryder Cup. But come on, would it kill them to move the Ryder Cup to at least St. Andrews or Muirfield or another site that is accustomed to hosting the Open and has more than enough room for spectators and the logistics??

[Jud_T]

Pat,

Agreed.  One small problem.  This is probably the biggest moneymaker and certainly the biggest feather in their cap that the PGA has and their going to milk it as if it were octomom breastfeeding...

[PCCraig]

Pat,

Agreed.  One small problem.  This is probably the biggest moneymaker and certainly the biggest feather in their cap that the PGA has and their going to milk it as if it were octomom breastfeeding...

Jud:

Could they not be hosting this tournament at St. Andrews and make the same amount of money?

[Jud_T]

I agree on that count.  Seems to me that most of the money would come from the TV rights and one might be willing to sell a few less tickets or have a few less corporate tents in order to play the best courses.  But I hear the resort owner cut them a huge check...

[Matt_Ward]

Pat:

I hear what you say but $$$$ rules.

Terrence Matthews was prepared to bid whatever it took.

The other facilities you mentioned were not going to have that kind of financial muscle to attract the interest of either of the PGA's.

try to realize that Walker, Curtis Cup matches are very, very small indeed and that's why the name clubs you mentioned decided to host them.

I doubt very seriously if Pine Valley or Cypress Point, to name just two, would be remotely interested given the spectacle the Ryder Cup is today.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Sorry Guys  but golf is not all about money, until then let's keep it well away from St Andrews.

Melvyn

[Tim Pitner]

Except for that awful 17th hole, I rather liked Valderrama (on TV), although the setting looked superior to the course. 

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

The K-Club in September 2006.
Celtic Manor, October 2010.

Heck, why not go for Gleneagles in November 2014? and top it off with Sweden in December 2018 (Ohh I forgot, Sweden pulled out of the 2018 bid).

Can anybody really say this is a surprise?

Isn't that silly FedEx Cup the real reason why the Ryder Cup is so late this year?

[George Freeman]

Sorry Guys  but golf is not all about money, until then let's keep it well away from St Andrews.

Melvyn

Melvyn,

Are you saying you would not want the Ryder Cup to be held at the Old Course?  If that is the case, you must also oppose the Open there?

[Matthew Petersen]

Isn't that silly FedEx Cup the real reason why the Ryder Cup is so late this year?

Yes, when Celtic Manor was awarded the RC it was still an early/mid September event

[George Pazin]

Isn't that silly FedEx Cup the real reason why the Ryder Cup is so late this year?

Yes, when Celtic Manor was awarded the RC it was still an early/mid September event

The last few have been mid to late September, no? The Fedex Cup delayed things by maybe a week or two - if that's your margin for error...you're cutting it too close.

Why is the event in September, tradition aside? So the PGA (the organization) can use the PGA (the event) as one of the last events to qualify for the Ryder Cup.

I'm much more of a traditionalist than Pat C, but I'm with him on this one, I think the PGA of America is in over their heads and have lost sight of the big picture. I'd move the event up in date significantly and move it to proper venues - if not, turn over the reigns to the professionals...

[Phil Benedict]

Ther PGA of America isn't responsible for Celtic Manor - that's the European Tour - and it's certainly not responsible for the Fedex Cup, which of course is the PGA Tour.

Virtually every sports organization seeks to maximize profit.  The baseball season ends in November and all of the World Series are played at night.  The NFL wants to move to 18 regular season games.  Top college football teams play 13 games.  I could go on and on.

One of the few exceptions is the Masters, which is privately controlled by a bunch of rich guys who can afford to pay attention to aethetics.

[Jim Sweeney]

It is impossible to compare the Broadway production that is the Ryder Cup to the community theater offering that is the Walker Cup.

I do not belittle the Walker Cup. I would much rather go to the nearest Shakespeare festival than to "the great white way."

The professional tours' schedules have become so full and overlapping in the name of profits that it is time, past time actually, for them to get together and get things synched in order to avoid what has become, in my opinion, a detriment to the the game- oversaturation. It will only get worse as Asia continues to grow in global importance to the game.

They also need, IMO, to rethink the "all exempt" philosophy. There are too many journeymen hangers-on clogging up the pipeline of exciting new talents. There is nothing wrong with continuing to have to prove oneself, every year if necessary. As a business owner I have to do so every day.

I laugh every time I read a golf pundit who calls the Walker Cup the "amateur version of the Ryder Cup," when, of course, the exact opposite is the case.

[George Pazin]

Virtually every sports organization seeks to maximize profit.  The baseball season ends in November and all of the World Series are played at night.  The NFL wants to move to 18 regular season games.  Top college football teams play 13 games.  I could go on and on.

Yep, and they all act as though they've been granted a golden goose that can never be killed.

Some day they will rue their short-sighted decisions.

[Matt_Ward]

I laugh out loud when I hear people say the PGA has lost the "big picture."

They know full well what the "big picture" is.

For the Euros the Ryder Cup is a mega cash cow -- only the Olympics and World Cup are ahead of it internationally.

I also chuckle when my good friend George P - albeit locked in a naive bubble world -- suggests we should bring in the professionals.

The professionals knew full well the deal and Mother Nature has simply conspired against them.

Even if the USGA, R&A or the angels in heaven were called in the same result wold have happened.

The Ryder Cup is a bidder's best friend. As Phil said -- all major sports chase that same reality. To expect otherwise is truly ignorant of that reality.

[Melvyn Morrow]

George F

The Open is our game, its needs to be at St Andrews and I also believe back at Prestwick.  – it’s not at Prestwick because of money.

As for the Ryder Cup, it can be played anywhere – it’s has no spirit,  it’s just a Tournament as far as I am concerned.

I would also like to see the R&A out of the loop regards running The Open, they hijacked it from Prestwick.  Regrettably they will remain in power, it will not happen until the clubs are willing to challenge The R&A - something they should do ASAP IMHO.

St Andrews is my home town which I love. TOC is like my garden but The R&A have been ineffective from Old Tom’s days. If you see your pet suffering you would consider putting it down, well the same applies to The R&A, before they do any more harm they should be put down or disbanded as the Golfing Authority. It’s the humane thing to do – for golf, right.

Trust that makes my position super clear.

Melvyn

[Jon Wiggett]

The Ryder Cup is a purely professional event so there is no chance of it ever being run by the USGA and/or R&A. Both these organisations have problems with their own events from time to time. I had to laugh when I read the comment about the last decent course it was played on was in 1981 at Walton Heath. Pat, 1981 was the year that the Ryder Cup was almost cancelled for good because it made no money and no one was that interested in it. It was only played that year when the PGA (no not the USPGA) found the money for it from its then meager coffers.

Since then it has been transformed from this to the third biggest television sporting event in the world.

[George Pazin]

I laugh out loud when I hear people say the PGA has lost the "big picture."

They know full well what the "big picture" is.

For the Euros the Ryder Cup is a mega cash cow -- only the Olympics and World Cup are ahead of it internationally.

I also chuckle when my good friend George P - albeit locked in a naive bubble world -- suggests we should bring in the professionals.

The professionals knew full well the deal and Mother Nature has simply conspired against them.

Even if the USGA, R&A or the angels in heaven were called in the same result wold have happened.

The Ryder Cup is a bidder's best friend. As Phil said -- all major sports chase that same reality. To expect otherwise is truly ignorant of that reality.

Matt, your idea of the big picture and mine are what is at conflict. I am fully aware that the powers that be have $$$$$$ at their overriding goal. My point is simply that when that is your goal, you tend to forsake the future in favor of the short term. There is value associated with having a superior event beyond the mega-dollars involved. I think the Masters folks understand that far better than most.

As for your comment that the professionals are in charge and Mother Nature conspired against them, I'd simply ask: Are these folks really professionals? Did they not foresee not just the chance but the likelihood that it would be a rain-soaked event on a course not designed to handle the elements? If Nick Faldo cautioned everyone 2 years ago to bring their rain gear, I have a hard time believing they expected good weather and simply were dealt a rare bad hand.

I don't know that the USGA & R&A would have fared any better, but it's hard to imagine doing worse. Maybe they could move the event to coincide with the President's Putter - but play it on a course that isn't suited for an event at that time of the year....

[Matt_Ward]

George:

Help me out here -- what is being forsaken ?

Mother Nature rained on the parade -- it could just have easily have happened 2 weeks ago. What's amusing is how some poster here advocated Spain -- and the last rainout happened there. Timing doesn't control what can happen weather wise.

I laugh when you talk about The Masters. Totally different situation. The club there has a one-year TV deal. They can hold the networks relatively hostage because of the short time frame involved. It doesn't hurt that The Masters comes at a great time on the calendar each year.

George, the people at the PGA are not slouchs or idiots. Joe Steranka studied very long and hard under his former boss Jim Awtrey and it was Awtrey who transformed the PGA Championship - and including The Ryder Cup -- into what you see today. Yes, I'd love for the event to be at a classic course but when Terrence Matthews is waving mega bucks / pounds / euros, whatever -- you go with the flow. All major championship sites -- with the lone exception of possibly Merion in 2013 -- are factored with $$.

Let's not canonize the USGA and R&A for sainthood -- each has made their share of mega errors in events they handle.

This year's event still has time to sort things out. Why not wait and see what happens.

[George Pazin]

Matt, I agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence, so I'll leave it at this:

Why do you think the Opens are played in June and July? Simply tradition? The RC was once an exhibition, which was likely why it was relegated to a late date. Now it's staying there for all the wrong reasons.

would the USGA & R&A do better? Don't know. Would they do worse? Can't imagine....

[David_Tepper]

"Why do you think the Opens are played in June and July?"

George Pazin -

It was less than 90 days ago that all the Cassandras here were clucking about how the British Open was "ruined" by the R&A's decision to suspend play due to the severe winds. It was 15 months ago that the US Open had to finish on a Monday on an altered/shortened Bethpage Black that was turned into a mudbowl by torrential rains. Have you forgotten about that?

The point is that bad weather can occur anyplace just about any time. To presume that the USGA and R&A are better at forecasting the weather than the PGA and the EuroTour is just wrong.  

Comparing the administration of the Walker Cup to the Ryder Cup is like comparing a high school football game to the Super Bowl. In fact, I would be willing to guess there are many high school football games that are better attended than the Walker Cup.

DT

[Matt_Ward]

George:

The Opens are played in June and July because of the longest amount of day light and because of peak turf conditions. Ditto the traditions they have had for so many years.

Look, the powers-that-be could easily schedule Ryder Cup in the same manner that baseball has its all-star game in the middle of the season.

Keep in mind, that would mean the PGA Tour would have to provide a slot in their schedule of events for that to happen. Ditto on the other side of the pond.

The Ryder Cup is run by two different groups -- not the ones associated with the day-to-day tour related matters.

George, weather is weather.

Keep in mind this too -- the property is owned by groups that are not going to permit the USGA / R&A to grab even a morsel of the $$ they are generating. George, the USGA and R&A have had their shares of fumbles with major events. They are not any better than what is being done with this year's event. I am not a fan of Celtic Manor -- but the same can be said for my feelings on places like Torrey Pines. Just realize that the US Open played at TP will live in the memory books for the exciting golf between TW and RM.

It's possible that even a drab course like the 2010 layout will produce such golf in the days ahead.

David T:

Well said -- the big HS game tomorrow in NJ between Don Bosco and Bergen Catholic will likely have twice the number of people who attend a Walker Cup Match. And, that's just a Jersey HS game -- a TX or FL game would produce more people than many small market tour events.

[Jim Sweeney]

George P:

You ask the questrion "Whay do you think the Opens are played in June and July?" You are inferring that the US Open is played in June because the longer days allow for more daylight for TV hence more money.

You are correct in your observation but not in your conclusion.

I just finished Bob Somer's "The US Open: Golf's Ultimate Challenge." It is the best book I know of on the history of the US Open. Mr. Somer's was editor of the USGA Golf Journal for many years and one of the deans of golf writing.

The US Open was originally moved to June because of the long days, that is correct. As the size of the field grew, and with the need for local qualifying, and  the double round on Saturday (until 1965), the daylight was needed just to finish the tournament. The June date became permanent in 1932.

The TV/money thing was a fortuitous benefit of the June date.

[David_Tepper]

It is a good thing the Ryder Cup was not held at Winged Foot, Baltusrol, Bethpage Black, Merion, The Country Club, etc. this weekend. Looks like the rain on the East Coast was worse than in Wales!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/02/us/02storm.html?_r=1&hp

[Matt_Ward]

David:

I'd like to see the Ryder Cup scheduled during the height of the season -- unfortunately, the PGA Tour would have to concede certain dates. Ditto for the Euro side.

The issue of weather would be lessened -- never eliminated.

Baseball has an all-star game during the middle of the season.

No reason why Ryder Cup could not be slotted in -- say two weeks after the US Open when here in the States and either a week or two prior to The Open when held across the pond.

NBC would certainly benefit and the rights payments would likely even go up.