Can someone smarter than me please explain

[Wade Schueneman]

why the Ryder Cup is held at the Belfry or the K Club or Celtic Manor or Gleneagles, BUT NOT TOC, RCD, RSG!?  I mean if there is some pressing reason not to play on a links course (and I cannot think of one) why not at least play at St. Georges Hill or Walton Heath or Sunningdale or some other fine heatland course.  Then it would at least be something special for the American fans, and in the event of rain the course might actually drain.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Do you think we are mad overhere, we are just keeping the Wild Bunch off our enjoyable golf courses.

Melvyn

[Dan Herrmann]

Wade - it's all about money.

[Sean_A]

why the Ryder Cup is held at the Belfry or the K Club or Celtic Manor or Gleneagles, BUT NOT TOC, RCD, RSG!?  I mean if there is some pressing reason not to play on a links cours (and I cannot think of one) why not at least play at St. Georges Hill or Walton Heath or Sunningdale or nay other fine heatland course.  Then it would at least be something special for the American fans, and in the vent of rain the course might actually drain.

Wade

The simple truth is most old line clubs cannot afford to host a Ryder Cup.  The amount of money required up front by the host club is a complete non-goer for member owned clubs. 

Ciao

[TEPaul]

"Can someone smarter than me please explain..."


Sure Wade, but first I need to know how smart you are? Would you say you're smarter than Melvyn? 

[George Freeman]

Money, logistics, money, spectator room, money, room for the "tent city," and money.

That is my guess...

The Walker Cup is where you need to spend you're time if you're looking for great venues.

[Wade Schueneman]

Sean, thank you for your reply.

How much money are we talking about?  I suspected that there had to be a commercial element, since the Ryder Cup regularly seems to be held at some resort whne held in GB&I.  Can you explain the actual selection process, or is it better not to inquire into that?

TEPaul,

The "someone smarter than me" caveat probably does not disqualify anyone.

[Dean Stokes]

I just wish that if it had to be at a 'half decent' parkland course for money's sake, that it would stay at The Belfry. At least due to watching the event there several times you know the holes, you get somewhat excited when they get to ten tee, and you understand what the stakes are at eighteen.

Watching at Celtic Manor, not knowing any holes, makes watching very uninteresting.

[TEPaul]

"TEPaul,
The "someone smarter than me" caveat probably does not disqualify anyone."



Wade:

Please say it ain't so as the bar on here may not be that high with some. You sound like Peter Pallotta but the irony is PeterP just may be the smartest of all of us in various ways!  
 
 

[Sean_A]

Sean, thank you for your reply.

How much money are we talking about?  I suspected that there had to be a commercial element, since the Ryder Cup regularly seems to be held at some resort whne held in GB&I.  Can you explain the actual selection process, or is it better not to inquire into that?

TEPaul,

The "someone smarter than me" caveat probably does not disqualify anyone.

Wade

Last I looked into the matter was several years ago when the process for selecting the K Club was under way.  Club reps commented that the money requested upfront was out of the question.  I seem to recall a figure just north of a million quid being tossed around, but I am not quite sure.  To give an idea, one of the best capitalized clubs I know of has £1.5 million in the bank now with no debt.  Ten years ago this sort of money packed away was virtually unheard of.  So asking for a million would have seemed like a bad joke. I can guarantee you this T Matthews paid considerably more than a million quid to get the Ryder Cup at his venue.  

Ciao  

[Adrian_Stiff]

I heard he paid £80M in total

[Matthew Petersen]

So the PGA of America pays clubs to host the Ryder Cup, but in Europe the clubs pay huge sums to have the event come to them. And on both sides the venues are uninteresting.

[Paul_Turner]

The Celtic Manor seems to have been a bottomless pit for $$....The amount of course redos in its 13 year lifetime is amazing.  

The original main course was The Roman Road and that got changed when the huge hotel was built.  A par 5 was broken up, a par 3 abandoned and the hole order changed.

Then the short Coldra Woods course got chopped up when the Wentwood Hills course was built because the tour didn't like the Roman Road course.

Then Wentwood Hills got redone for the Ryder Cup and renamed "2010". And then the Coldra Woods course looks to have been further redone by Colin Montgomery into something entirely different??

All this was for 3 days of the Ryder Cup!

I can't see the resort lasting beyond Matthews.

[Jud_T]

What's the occupancy rate at the resort?  Does this guy think a bunch of yanks are going to give up their trips to Ballybunion and St. Andrews to come to Celtic Manor? Do the well-to-do brits care?  Maybe he's got more money than god and it doesn't really matter but I just don't get the business plan.  If I want to pay up for fancy digs, the spa and golf I'll go to Pebble, and that's well down the list at this point.

[Carl Johnson]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and these guys are jocks.

[Tom Johnston]

What's the occupancy rate at the resort?  Does this guy think a bunch of yanks are going to give up their trips to Ballybunion and St. Andrews to come to Celtic Manor? Do the well-to-do brits care?  Maybe he's got more money than god and it doesn't really matter but I just don't get the business plan.  If I want to pay up for fancy digs, the spa and golf I'll go to Pebble, and that's well down the list at this point.

Amen

[David_Tepper]

"What's the occupancy rate at the resort?  Does this guy think a bunch of yanks are going to give up their trips to Ballybunion and St. Andrews to come to Celtic Manor? Do the well-to-do brits care?  Maybe he's got more money than god and it doesn't really matter but I just don't get the business plan.  If I want to pay up for fancy digs, the spa and golf I'll go to Pebble, and that's well down the list at this point."

Jud T. -

Terry Matthews built a company and sold it for $7 billion. Glad to think you know more about business than he does!

DT

[Ben Voelker]

I was looking at future venues for the Ryder Cup just the other day.  Does it get less inspiring than Medinah, Hazeltine and WS, all PGA venues?  The sad thing is, there should be no concern with "protecting par" at this event.  The PGA could choose some really cool venues and not worry about -15 winning, and provide some really exciting matches...

Oh well, beaming myself back to earth

[Jud_T]

"What's the occupancy rate at the resort?  Does this guy think a bunch of yanks are going to give up their trips to Ballybunion and St. Andrews to come to Celtic Manor? Do the well-to-do brits care?  Maybe he's got more money than god and it doesn't really matter but I just don't get the business plan.  If I want to pay up for fancy digs, the spa and golf I'll go to Pebble, and that's well down the list at this point."

Jud T. -

Terry Matthews built a company and sold it for $7 billion. Glad to think you know more about business than he does!

DT

David,

Congrats to Mr. Matthews for joining the Billionaires Club.  If he has 7BB it's likely the prestige of holding the Ryder Cup, building a brutal "Championship Venue" and holding court at a luxury tent is likely more his concern than whether or not he turns a profit on CM.  The 80mm he apparently paid up to buy this event is a mere few months interest income for him...I really doubt whether he loses sleep at night if the rooms are half empty.  Maybe Madonna will rent out the entire place for her next wedding to an 18 year old hermaphrodite; I'll be down the road at a comfy B&B with an early time at Pennard, thanks....

[Kevin Pallier]

I was looking at future venues for the Ryder Cup just the other day.  Does it get less inspiring than Medinah, Hazeltine and WS, all PGA venues? 

Ben

I haven't seen those venues to comment on them but Gleneagles provides a decent venue shame about the choice of course though 

[Mark Chaplin]

There are 400 bedrooms at the resort, if it runs at 75% occupancy and the Ryder Cup is worth an extra £10 a room that's £1m a year, add £100 on the greenfee say 15000 a year and suddenly the numbers start to make sense.

I hear Oakland Hills made north of $10m from the Ryder Cup.

[Adam Lawrence]

Jud, I don't want to be rude, but not all UK golf courses base their business model on American tourists. Celtic Manor does OK, I doubt it is vastly profitable, but the hotel, although ugly, is excellent, the off-course facilities are terrific, and the golf courses have been on UK television every year for the last decade and more. That translates to lots of corporate business - for example, the big KPMG golf conference went there last year - and lots of golfers want to go play there. The green fee for Twenty Ten next summer is £165 midweek, £185 at weekends (that's a package including lunch), and it'll get play. You need to listen to what Adrian Stiff says - for a large proportion of UK golfers, the best day out is Belfry, or Celtic, or if you're very rich Wentworth - the places people see on TV. I don't like that, but that's how it is.

[Mark Chaplin]

Jud - probably 95% of UK clubs never see an American, there is plenty of business out there without the oversea market.

A lot of British golfers avoid the zoo that can become some of the clubs that have daily coach parties of players from overseas all seeking the unique golfing experience and actually drinking and dining with groups from their own country.

[Jud_T]

Adam/Mark,

I never said it was based on Yanks.  I find it sad with so many great courses at their disposal that locals would think this is a great day out.

[David_Tepper]

Ward -

I am afraid we owe you an apology. Clearly a few people on this thread who have responded to your query are likely not smarter than you.

DT