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Scott Warren

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GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« on: September 30, 2010, 11:23:10 AM »
The new rankings list is out this month and there are a few notables:

Turnberry maintained top spot.

Sunningdale (Old) overtook Woodhall Spa as the top inland course.

The European now rates above R. St George's! :o

Deal dropped out of the top 40!

Silloth dropped out of the Top 50!!

Woking moonwalked back to 80th!!!

Castle Stuart debuted at 45, Renaissance debuted at 73.

The Castle Course was the biggest positive mover, leaping up 11 spots to 56.

Carton House (Montgomerie) fared worst, dropping from 80th to not listed.

The full list
1 Turnbury (Ailsa) -
2 R. Birkdale +1
3 R. County Down -1
4 Muirfield +1
5 St Andrews (Old) -1
6 Carnoustie -
7 R. Portrush -
8 Sunningdale (Old) +2
9 Woodhall Spa -1
10 Loch Lomond -1
11 R. Dornoch -
12 Waterville  +1
13 R. Lytham & St Anne's +4
14 Ballybunion (Old) -
15 Kingsbarns -3
16 Portmarnock (Old) +2
17 The European +2
18 R. Liverpool -3
19 R. St George's -3
20 Walton Heath (Old) +1
21 Saunton (East) +1
22 R. Troon +1
23 Wentworth (West) -3
24 Nairn +1
25 County Louth +1
26 Sunningdale (New) -2
27 Lahinch +1
28 Ganton -1
29 Gleneagle's (Kings) +1
30 West Sussex -1
31 North Berwick +1
32 The Berkshire (Red) +1
33 Alwoodley +2
34 Formby -3
35 R. Aberdeen +1
36 Doonbeg +1
37 Prestwick -3
38 St Enodoc -
39 Hillside (White) +4
40 R. Porthcawl -
41 R. Cinque Ports -2
42 Western Gailes -1
43 R. St David's -1
44 Notts (Hollinwell) -
45 Castle Stuart NEW
46 R. West Norfolk -
47 Carne -
48 Cruden Bay +2
49 Machrihanish -4
50 St George's Hill -1
51 Silloth-on-Solway -3
52 Rye    -1
53 Swinley Forest -1
54 Woburn (Marquess) -1
55 Wentworth (East) -1
56 The Castle Course  +11
57 Gullane #1 -1
58 Blairgowrie (R'mnt) -
59 County Sligo -2
60 The Island +1
61 Woburn (Dukes) +2
62 Little Aston -7
63 Donegal -4
64 Ballyliffin (Glass.) -4
65 The Machrie -3
66 The Berkshire (Blue) -2
67 Hunstanton +1
68 Aldeburgh -3
69 Walton heath (New) -3
70 Burnham & Berrow -1
71 Ferndown (Old) +1
72 Aadare Manor +1
73 The Renaissance NEW
74 Hankley Common -
75 Mount Juliet -5
76 Old Head of Kinsale -5
77 Lindrick -2
78 Celtic Manor NEW
79 Tralee -3
80 Woking -3
81 Rosapenna (Sandy H) -
82 Worplesdon -4
83 Southerness -4
84 Aberdovey -1
85 Lough Erne NEW
86 Chart Hills -4
87 Broadstone -3
88 The Addington -3
89 R. Ashdown Forest +1
90 New Zealand +1
91 West Hill -5
92 Remedy Oak -3
93 Enniscrone NEW
94 Dundonald -1
95 Skibo Castle NEW
96 The Belfry (Br'zon) -
97 St Mellion (N'laus) +3
98 Southport & Ainsdale -1
99 Machrihanish Dunes NEW
100 Dukes St Andrews -2

ENTERING THE TOP 100
Castle Stuart
The Renaissance
Celtic Manor (2010)
Lough Erne
Enniscrone
Skibo Castle
Machrihanish Dunes

EXITING THE TOP 100
Carton House (Montgomerie) (was 80)
Castletown (was 87)
Gleneagles (PGA) (was 88)
Druid's Glen (was 92)
K Club (was 94)
Nefyn (was 95)
Goodwood (was 99)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 11:30:46 AM by Scott Warren »

Jud_T

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2010, 11:26:31 AM »
Scott,

How is this calulated again? Is it a reader poll? For instance, having Turnberry above TOC, RCD and Ballybunion is silly...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2010, 11:30:45 AM »
It's not a readers poll... There's about 80 - 100 figures on the panel...

It is basically the most respected listing of GB&I courses that there is...

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2010, 11:36:43 AM »
There are not many big movers are there?

I kinda knew Lough Erne would get in there... and Enniscrone would get back in... Interesting to see the Celtic Tiger parklands all dropping down or out...

Scott, Rennaisance actually debuted last time in the Top 200 so its stock is obviously rising as people get to know about it...... Did they do the 200 again this year?

Scott Warren

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2010, 11:39:33 AM »
Yeah Ally, the 101-200, listed alphabetically, is there as well. But I reckon I have breached enough of GW's copyright for one afternoon ;D

Inexplicably, Huntercombe isn't in there...

JNC Lyon

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2010, 11:40:01 AM »
I'm glad Brora and Huntercombe are not on the list.  Those courses suck!!!
 ::) ::) ??? >:(

I'm not sure why I read these lists anyways.  They are all terrible, and they have no bearing on what courses I will play in the future.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Scott Warren

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2010, 11:40:40 AM »
John: Addington is at 88 - down three spots on last year.

JNC Lyon

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2010, 11:44:04 AM »
John: Addington is at 88 - down three spots on last year.

I edited that, but not quickly enough!  Surely Addington has more architecture on it than all but a couple dozen courses above it.  Can't you learn more about GCA from playing Addington than playing nearly any Rota course?
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Mark Pearce

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2010, 11:45:03 AM »
Scott,

Thanks for this.  Not surprising but a little depressing to see some of those moves.

Everywhere you look there are absurdities.  Gullane No 1 above Burnham & Berrow?  Bonkers.  Silloth outside the top 50?

Wentworth above Sunningdale AND Ganton?  
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Mark Chaplin

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2010, 01:09:36 PM »
Disappointing to see Worplesdon remove 1000s of trees to open up the heathland again and go down.
Cave Nil Vino

Matthew Hunt

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2010, 01:17:01 PM »
Only flicked through, but Birkdale above RCD? It must be Ryder Cup Hype that Celtic Manor is on the list as it is above Loch Erne another modern course with a lot of water. The difference is Loch Erne is a whole different league to the 2010.

Sean_A

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2010, 01:22:07 PM »
There are so many courses listed which are neither here nor there in terms of the big picture of architecture.  You could cut this list in half and then it would be much more meaningful.  That said, the biggest disappointment is seeing Castletown drop out.  If there are 100+ better courses in GB&I then I may as well enquire as to the going price for the Brooklyn Bridge.  On the flip side, I can understanding the shamelsss love affair with Turnberry, but to whack Hillside up into a meaningful slot is akin to saying George W was a successful president - its disgraceful.

Ciao  
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

Mark Chaplin

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2010, 01:35:51 PM »
Sean I'm with you on Hillside and thought it a massive disappointment. All the hype about the back nine and half the holes are flat motorways through the dunes, best back nine in the UK was a massive marketing hype.
Cave Nil Vino

Sean_A

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2010, 01:42:29 PM »
Sean I'm with you on Hillside and thought it a massive disappointment. All the hype about the back nine and half the holes are flat motorways through the dunes, best back nine in the UK was a massive marketing hype.

Chappers

I heard that the archie cut a deal whereby he was not paid, but was able to sell the leftover sand after construction.  I don't know if its true or not, but the design of the back nine seems to suggest that something was up.  With a piece of property like that and to have the front nine be superior is a travesty.  Hillside should be one of the best courses in GB&I, the land is that good.  Instead, as you rightly state, we have flat motorways through dunes. 

Ciao

 
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

Simon Holt

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2010, 01:47:50 PM »
Good to see North Berwick holding its own. 

A little disappointed with RC as I definitely think we suffer from lack of visits.  I wasnt aware of any GW rankers here this year but have had plenty of Golf Monthly so perhaps we will get more out of that one.  Happy to be the 4th club in a pretty good showing from East Lothian but my boss has lofty ambitions!!  Back to work.
2011 highlights- Royal Aberdeen, Loch Lomond, Moray Old, NGLA (always a pleasure), Muirfield Village, Saucon Valley, watching the new holes coming along at The Renaissance Club.

Mark Chaplin

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2010, 01:57:04 PM »
Simon GW tend to have better placed raters who do not need to show out. Where as GM using readers and staff do need to ask the question "am I comp'd?"
Cave Nil Vino

David_Tepper

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2010, 02:11:28 PM »
"A little disappointed with RC as I definitely think we suffer from lack of visits."

Simon Holt -

Just to clarify, what course is "RC?"

Thanks.

DT

Scott Warren

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2010, 02:16:43 PM »
David,

Simon is referring to The Renaissance Club.

FWIW, I think it's worthy of higher than 73. Hopefully it will keep climbing in coming years, particularly with the new holes being rolled out.

Simon Holt

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2010, 02:17:24 PM »
Renaissance- I work there so my opinion shouldnt really be taken too seriously, albeit I see myself as a pretty clear thinking type  :)

Mark- There is no 'comp' situtation as we have no outside play. I am sure a few of them may have got here without us knowing who they are, its just that 99% of guests here are with a member who would always let us know.  This is not to say that we would do anything different as when people pay good money to be a member then they expect the highest standard day in, day out.

Like I said- happy to be there but one always wants to be higher!
2011 highlights- Royal Aberdeen, Loch Lomond, Moray Old, NGLA (always a pleasure), Muirfield Village, Saucon Valley, watching the new holes coming along at The Renaissance Club.

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2010, 03:10:16 PM »
Renaissance- I work there so my opinion shouldnt really be taken too seriously, albeit I see myself as a pretty clear thinking type  :)

Mark- There is no 'comp' situtation as we have no outside play. I am sure a few of them may have got here without us knowing who they are, its just that 99% of guests here are with a member who would always let us know.  This is not to say that we would do anything different as when people pay good money to be a member then they expect the highest standard day in, day out.

Like I said- happy to be there but one always wants to be higher!

Simon,

I think that TRC's placement is good news because it made it to the 100 - 200 list on debut last time out in 2008... Generally speaking most new courses go in high on the hype and then start falling before eventually disappearing... Only the cream go in and start rising...

It looks like an extremely conservative list this time around... Basically, there is so little movement that you wonder if they kept the panel exactly the same with most of them faxing in their rankings from last time... The only ins and outs are from new courses... There seems to be no movement from unheralded classic courses that are starting to be recognised as something special...

David_Tepper

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2010, 03:31:36 PM »
Does anyone else think Nairn at #24 is a bit of a stretch?

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2010, 04:13:21 PM »
Does GOLF WORLD have a web site?  I have never been able to find it, if it does.  The magazine is not always in the bookstore in the US.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

David_Tepper

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2010, 04:24:53 PM »
Tommy W. -

I have not been able to find a website for Golf World (UK). I usually see the magazine for sale in Borders bookstores in the U.S.

Here is a link to the 2008 Golf World GB&I Top 100 ranking, maybe it will be updated to reflect the new ranking:

http://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/upload/37984/attachments/top-100-golf-courses.pdf

http://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/Golf/courses/Top-100-Golf-Courses/The-best-UK-golf-courses-from-Todays-Golfer/

DT

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2010, 05:15:08 PM »
I'm curious as to why some of you guys find the rankings depressing and disappointing. Surprising; maybe, but depressing and disappointing; surely not. Why should it matter?

Kevin Pallier

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Re: GB&I Top 100 for 2011 - Golf World
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2010, 07:50:59 PM »
It continues to amaze me how Turnberry holds onto the #1 Ranking  ??? How many truly "great" holes exist on that course ?

Given the volume of Championship or Tournament courses up around the Top20 or so would lead me to believe that many there prefer difficulty over quality ?

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