News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Craig Rokke

The Art of Paving on a Golf Course
« on: March 01, 2002, 05:39:26 PM »
Seldom do you see any course these days without a few miles of macadam, or even concrete. The last course I played
sported double-wide concrete paths from start to finish. "No thanks on the cart. I'll use my Tahoe." I wonder what that set them back. Cart paths have pretty much developed into a necessary evil in modern course design.

If they're poorly conceived, they can take away from your golf experience. One regional course puts an overhead view of a par 3 into their advertisements which sports a big, honkin' black stripe cutting right through the middle of it. It looks just terrible. Better laid out paths are at least somewhat inconspicuous. Perhaps you don't really notice them unless you get a scuff mark on your gutta percha. But at their best, they may even add to the experience.

In any case, they must be one of the least thought of & most underappreciated aspects of good course design. How much of an art form do you think the laying out of cart paths is? I was told by one respected golf writer that it indeed is an artform to do them right, and to even do them so they enhance the course. (Yeah, I know, if you really want to enhance the course, bulldoze them over  :)  ) He cited Jim Engh as an architect who is among the most skilled at laying them out. In examining some pictures of Engh's Colorado courses, I'd have to agree. They don't seem to detract from the holes.

What are some courses that are affected by good or bad
use of cart paths, and what are some of the mistakes that can be made?

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Lou Duran

Re: The Art of Paving on a Golf Course
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2002, 06:12:55 PM »
Craig,

My home course, Great Southwest, has continuous cart paths.  My recollection is that the original course only had spurs around the tees and greens.  These were connected over time, at first with asphalt, and more recently with concrete.  Many are in the wrong places and it is not unusual to get a couple "GSW logos" during the course of a round.  Another major problem we have is that some impede the surface drainage and make a mess of things.

Many architects spend quite a bit of time routing, hiding, and keeping the paths away from the lines of play.  For us that walk the $500,000 to $1 Million capital outlay for paths are a complete waste.  Unfortunately, the vast majority of golfers believe other wise.   A number of years ago, our Seaside Bent greens were in terrible need of replacement.  The owner surveyed the members to prioritize various improvements and new cart paths topped the list.  Our nearly dead greens came in toward the bottom!  Go figure.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Don_Mahaffey

Re: The Art of Paving on a Golf Course
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2002, 06:32:51 PM »
Craig,
Put the paths where they belong and nobody uses them. Put them where the golfers will actually use them and they are in the way.  :(
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Art of Paving on a Golf Course
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2002, 07:08:59 PM »
Don,
That is not always true. I just got back from several FLA courses that used paved paths and they were located in areas that did not affect the golf but people did follow them. Using them properly won't distract from anyone's enjoyment. If Jim Engh is astute at their placement, then he should be lauded.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Don_Mahaffey

Re: The Art of Paving on a Golf Course
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2002, 07:53:37 PM »
Jim,
Fair enough. I guess I'm just a cynic after years of watching carts cruise down the middle of the fairway instead of using the paths. My other favorite habit to observe is the need to always pull two wheels off the path at the tees and the greens. I guess it shortens the walk by one step  ??? Curbed paths get frowned on here, but I rather see a curb then a two foot wide dirt strip.

Craig,
It is without a doubt an art to designing functional paths. Now, if we could give out traffic tickets on the course.... ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The Art of Paving on a Golf Course
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2002, 08:52:05 PM »
Don,

I'm with you.

People tend to go where they want to go, or the path of least resistance, the shortest distance between two points,
etc., etc..

There are several ways to make people use cart paths.
One is to place untraversable curbs alongside the cart path, insuring that traffic will remain on the path.  Another method is a cart path policy that says, if you're not on the cart path, you're not playing golf here.

From a practical point of view, the cart paths have to be functional to the play of the course, with common sense prevailing.  Hiding the paths can be relatively easy provided one takes the time to analyze the play of each hole and the hole that follows, and that the golf course has sufficient room to accomodate the cart paths.  Attention to detail is important.

Ran, Jeff Lewis, Jim Lewis and Geoffrey Childs can tell you about a golf course with 17,000+ linear feet of cart paths, with 12,000 + - linear feet of curbing where both are almost invisible to the golfer as they play the golf course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike O'Neill

Re: The Art of Paving on a Golf Course
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2002, 04:16:37 AM »
I found it to be somewhat easier to hide the cart paths in the sand hills of Nebraska because of the constant movement naturally in the terrain. In most cases seems to be a ground swell of some dimension (usually covered by native grass) to significantly hide the view of the path from the tee. In other locales, if you don't mind a little extra dirtwork, you can typically build those features into the golf hole to hide the path. An example of dirt moving even the purists can love.

On a related point, keep in mind that most golf courses need maintenance paths to accommodate equipment traffic. So even if you do away with all cart traffic, you'll still have some paths for maintenance equipment in most cases. It is beneficial to overlap those paths to reduce redundancy whenever possible.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Bill_Spellman

Re: The Art of Paving on a Golf Course
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2002, 08:00:56 AM »
     One has to go back only 30 to 40 years to see the landscape of the game with no paths or carts. Carts became a way to produce income for the pro. At the beginning of carts, most of them were owned by the pro. As time marched on, clubs took over that concession because they saw the income potential and also the need for paths which the pro could not afford to install. The pro's screamed bloody murder! As I see it (as a former club pro who owned a fleet for six years) it was inevitable. In some cases, no additional compensation was offered, and in some there was a commissision paid for maintaining and responsibility.
  
      Now, carts have been partially responsible for the growth of the game, allowing people who may have a problem in walking. I won't go there now, as to remedies to an inability to walk, but they are a fact of life and here to stay. Kudos to courses with no carts. I know for a fact that at Merion you have to be sitting up in your coffin to use one of the six or so cart on the east course. No cart paths, and they do just fine
because of the west course with plenty of carts.

      Cart paths have become too close to lines of play, but there may be some future remedies.

1. clubs must consult the architects more closely when determining routings.
 
2. Architects, when possible could design green complexes a little closer to tee complexes, not forgetting safety issues obviously and have the carts park at the next tee, thereby speeding up play. I realize that this isn't possible given housing tracts and routings in difficult terrain, but maybe it can be utilized when possible. "Archies" comments and thoughts appreciated.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Richard Mandell

Re: The Art of Paving on a Golf Course
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2002, 08:49:09 AM »
Guys:

As a golfer, architect, human being, I can't stand cart paths.  They make it more challenging to route a golf course if your goal is to not have any paths ever cross your fairways.  When I am in the initial routing stages, I am routing my cart path at the same time just to avoid the paths being an influence down the road.  This is the best way to initially conceal these paths.  During construction, we grade out the paths while we shape the rest of the golf course and are efficient in hiding them by utilizing enough material.  By doing this during initial shaping, you can conceal the paths pretty effectively and ensure that the features that aid in this process look natural as well.  It is just a matter of planning ahead.  I also have a line item in my contract that requires a client to get approval from me for any cart path alterations throughout the life of the project.

My big gripe is when certain courses require you take a cart and then declare "cart path only" all the time for the sake of maintenance.  Cart path only ruins an experience for me as I don't want to view the golf course from the side of each hole nor do I design that way either.  Conditioning is important, but I think this concept in certain applications favors everyone but the actual paying customer, which is why we are all here.

I am in the early stages of a project about thirty minutes east of Pinehurst, and we are at the point where I will convince the Owner to just do paths from green to next tee.  The project is a new eighteen holes on an existing layout which currently has paths from green to the next tees.  Wish me luck!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Peter Galea

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Art of Paving on a Golf Course
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2002, 09:02:07 AM »
"Cart paths only" is essential from opening day for the first year or so. After that, "Hey, it's just grass."
As long as the path routing is good, design is not too radical with severe slopes or dangerous situations, access and egress near greens and tees is properly planned for and weather permits, "Drive on!"
Fairway maintenance may have to be taken into consideration, but that's why you pay green fees and have a maintenance crew.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:03 PM by -1 »
"chief sherpa"

Mike O'Neill

Re: The Art of Paving on a Golf Course
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2002, 10:41:52 AM »
Richard,

Can you describe the soil and the turf type you will be using on your new project? How many rounds are expected each year?

Thanks,
Mike
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Richard Mandell

Re: The Art of Paving on a Golf Course
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2002, 05:57:47 AM »
Mike:

Pure sand and we will probably go with 419 or Tifsport in the fairways and rough.

Richard M.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »