[Mike Policano]

Pat, I believe you are right. I have the following on the run up list.

East 1,3,4,5,7,8
Center 1,3,4,7,9
West 1, 3,7,8,9

Make it 16. A couple of others are open but only from a minority of angles.

Cheers

[Dean Paolucci]

Steve,

I am going to Dellwood with a group on Columbus Day!  I look forward to the visit.

DEAN

[Rick Wolffe]

Pat got me thinking on this at Baltusrol, and I hav listed the holes with contoured approaches below.  Most of the holes at Baltusrol have an open approach that will receive a run up shot, particularly in the case where the preceding shot is placed on the proper side of the fairway, where the green opens its best face to receive a running shot.  The par 3's, particularly the short to mid length ones do not allow a running approach and they are generally closed in front. 

Lower -- 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 17...(note, two of the par 3's, the 4th and 16th, do not have an approach ramp; please also note that the approaches on 5 and 17 were recently reinstated under the Rees Jones Master plan, which has also recommended returning the approach ramp on 18 Lower and hopefully that will happen sometime soon.  The approach on 5 was brought down to the top of the bunker fronting the knoll on which the green sits and this coupled with the expansion of the green back to its original contours restores the Skyline green feature on this hole; the reinstatement of the approach on 17 brings back the slight double-dog-leg, and rewards the properly placed second shot with a open view of the green versus the semi-blind pitch for thosed that bail out to the right side of the fairway with their second shots)

Upper -- 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, 18...(note, the par 3 15th is the only hole that does not have an approach ramp; please also note that under the Rees Jones Master Plan the approach ramps were reinstated on 7, 8, & 10 and expanded back to the original contours on 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 11, 13, and the approach bunker on 18 Upper green was reinstated to the left of the green) 

[Patrick_Mucci]

On Tillinghast's early courses did he design/build replica holes/greens? 

Some of the greens/holes at Somerset come to top of mind like the Redan (#2) and the swale/valley running thru the middle of the 13th green.  Would these qualify as purposely built replica features, or unique variations dicated by the natural terrain, which by coincidence bear a striking resemblance to some of the great features found on Scottish links?

Are there other examples in his early work or his later work?

Rick,

The 6th at Old Oaks has a "redan" flavor to the green and surrounds.
Other holes have his version of "plateau" holes

In my very limited experience, it seems like some of the ODGs crafted their version of what we refer to as "template" holes.

Many probably moved away from this as they gained more experience and more acceptance of their designs

[Phil_the_Author]

Rick,

I'm glad you chimed in with the information about the work being done to recover the Tillinghast approaches. He gets far more than his share of criticism on this and other sites and his good work often gets overlooked or ignored. This is an example of that work which I can say i saw in person just a few weeks ago riding around with Rick...

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat got me thinking on this at Baltusrol, and I hav listed the holes with contoured approaches below.  Most of the holes at Baltusrol have an open approach that will receive a run up shot, particularly in the case where the preceding shot is placed on the proper side of the fairway, where the green opens its best face to receive a running shot.  The par 3's, particularly the short to mid length ones do not allow a running approach and they are generally closed in front. 

Lower -- 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 17...

I'd have to disagree with you on more than a few of the holes you cited, especially in terms of reality versus theory, based on a very good golfer, not a mid to high handicap whose second and third shots are just short of the green.

# 3 is an aerial shot from an elevated DZ, # 5 is to an elevated green fronted by deep bunkers, # 7 as a par 4 has no run-up area and even as a par 5 isn't really a run up hole with the green elevated above the front bunkers, # 8 has an offset fronting bunker that thwarts run up, # 9 a little less so, on # 10, # 11, 13 & 14 the neck is so narrow and you'd have to be in "the" perfect DZ otherwise they're not practical run up holes.  # 15 & # 17 are elevated greens with frointing bunkers, so I don't see the run up options that you do

(note, two of the par 3's, the 4th and 16th, do not have an approach ramp; please also note that the approaches on 5 and 17 were recently reinstated under the Rees Jones Master plan, which has also recommended returning the approach ramp on 18 Lower and hopefully that will happen sometime soon.  The approach on 5 was brought down to the top of the bunker fronting the knoll on which the green sits and this coupled with the expansion of the green back to its original contours restores the Skyline green feature on this hole; the reinstatement of the approach on 17 brings back the slight double-dog-leg, and rewards the properly placed second shot with a open view of the green versus the semi-blind pitch for thosed that bail out to the right side of the fairway with their second shots)

Upper -- 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, 18...

# 4 is a highly elevated green with the narrowest of openings, # 7 is from an elevated tee to a green surrounded by bunkers.
 $ 8 & 9 are to elevated greens fronted by bunkers, # 10 is an elevated green with fronting bunkers, likewise # 12 &  # 14 are elevated greens fronted by bunkers, especially # 12, so I don't see the run-up options that you do.

This wouldn't be another "homer" call would it ?


(note, the par 3 15th is the only hole that does not have an approach ramp; please also note that under the Rees Jones Master Plan the approach ramps were reinstated on 7, 8, & 10 and expanded back to the original contours on 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 11, 13, and the approach bunker on 18 Upper green was reinstated to the left of the green) 

[John Moore II]

JKM,

How did Rees Jones redesign/renovate BL ?

Rees Jones did not alter the existing putting surfaces at BL

I do not know the scope of the work Rees Jones did at BL. I do know I have read that he did work there to prep the course for the US Open. I was unsure if that work entailed a renovation of the greens to make them more 'fair' at tournament speeds. I will take you at your word that the greens were not changed, I have no reason to think different.

[Patrick_Mucci]

JKM,

A good deal of Rees's work centered on extending putting surfaces.

They did move the fairway/rough lines, but, the greens and green surrounds are pretty much unchanged.

BL's greens never had the internal contouring and slope as WFW or BU, Fenway, Ridgewood and others.

[Jim Nugent]

BL's greens never had the internal contouring and slope as WFW or BU, Fenway, Ridgewood and others.

Would BL be a better course with more contours and slopes on the greens? 

[Rick Wolffe]

Ok Pat...I must reply to your post...you are getting into the nuances of both courses which I appreciate...and you rightly point out that on some of the par 4’s you need to accurately place your drive in the ideal point of the drive zone to be rewarded with an open view of the green – Tillinghast wrote that rewarding an accurately placed drive with an open view and approach into the green is the mark of a good hole, versus golf holes of indifferent hitting straight ahead with no thought on where to place shots.

LOWER

3 Lower -- if you can place an accurate and long drive on the left side of the fairway, the green and approach are wide open.  Interestingly, Jack Nicklaus wrote, "I like this hole because it sets up such an interesting approach.  The left side of the green slopes sharply to the left.  a shot from the right side of the fairway -- undoubtedly with one of the mid irons -- will tend to bounce left and may run right off the green.  Ideally, then, the approach should be hit from the left side of the fairway so that it will land into the slope of the green.  But the left side is far more dangerous off the tee.  The hole doglegs slightly from left and a drive that misses the fairway to the left will be, aw we say in jail.

5 Lower -- you are very right the green sits on a knoll and is fronted by a large bunker at the base of the knoll; however, you may not have seen the recent restoration work, which expanded the green back to its original contours and has converted the rough above the frontal bunker to fairway which reinstated almost 10 yards of fairway approach into the false front of this green.  The other neat feature is that in viewing this green from the drive zone, it is framed by the sky behind making it appear to run off into the 17th green behind -- Tillinghast called these skyline greens which appear naked against a skyline creating visual difficulty in judging the true distance to the pin.

7 Lower -- there is over 20 yards between the deception bunker and the green which is very open to a running shot...Pat, you need to see the restoration work here too...the back face of the deception bunker has been lowered so more of the green is visible for the long second shot into this long two-shotter.  In addition, the Tillinghast fairway bunkers on the left side were reinstated...interestingly when the turf was taken up to reinstate the bunkers, the old bunkers were still there -- sand, drain tiles and all.

8 Lower – yes there is a fronting bunker around 30 yards short of the open entrance to the green.  However, if the pin is forward in the opening to this almost boomerang shaped green, there is no way to get close to this pin unless you play short and let the ball run up to the green.

9 Lower – yes the deception bunker is around 30 yards short of the open entrance to the green and if the pin is in the front you have to land short of the green and let it run on to get close to the pin.

10 Lower – this green is an exception to Tillinghast’s rule as the green slights gently from back to front, the ideal drive to the left side of the fairway has an open shot to the green and to get close to a forward pin position the second must land short in the approach to run up to the pin.  For those not reaching the green in two, and pitching on with the third, Tilly intentionally sloped this green from front to back to make the pitch come in with spin or play short and run up to the pin; if not the slope of the green will help it on its way over the back of the green.

11 Lower – I would get into debates on the definition of a blind hole on this one.  If the drive is safely played to the right side of the fairway, the second shot is partially blind, but there is 20 yards of green in the approach short of the green, which can be played to reach the green safely in two.  Conversely, a long an accurate on the left side of the fairway will be able to see the green surface and the approach ramp into the green.

13 Lower – a drive to the left side of the fairway will have an open approach into this two-tiered green.  Incidentally, the bunker restoration work on this hole is being completed as I write and I am pleased to report that the R.T. Jones mounds around the green have been removed and the Tillinghast green side bunkers were totally restored and the donut bunker on the right side of the green was reinstated too.

14 Lower – a long and accurate drive that carries the elbow on the left side will have an open view of the green; conversely a drive that takes the safer route to the right will have a partially blind shot to the green and must carry the greenside bunkers on the right.

15 Lower – the green and a 50 yard approach into the green opens up to a long an accurate drive on the right side of the fairway; conversely the approach is totally closed to a drive down the left side of the fairway.

17 Lower – the 100 yard fairway approach into this green from the left side was reinstated earlier this year, which has restored the slight double dog leg feature to the hole.  Pat, you are right about this one as the entrance to the green is very narrow and Tillinghast intended that the green should be reached in three shots with the third an accurate pitch to the pin.  By restoring the fairway approach on the left the player can choose to play his second to this approach and have a clear view of the green surface and the pin or the player can play a safer second shot to the right and be left with a partially blind shot that must carry the entire green side bunker complex on the right side.

I will address the Upper in my next post.

[Rick Wolffe]

Jim

No...the greens on BL have plenty of slope and contour and changing them would be a travesty to the Tillinghast design.

If you have not played the course, please do so and I think you will experience the absolute right mix and blending of green slopes and contours, with several that are quite severe like on 2, 4, 5, 15 & 18.

[Rick Wolffe]

Ok Pat...here is my reply on the Upper.

4 Upper -- The entire front of the green and approach into this green is open and the recent renovation work has extended the front of the green into the approach.  If the pin is placed in the front of the green, the second shot has to land in the approach either dead on line and running up or coming in from the right and playing the severe right to left slope to get close.


7 Upper -- You are right about this...the approach was recently reinstated; and it is very narrow, but a straight and accurate drive will be rewarded with a bounce into the green.  This ramp used to be rough grass and was reinstated with fairway last year.

8 Upper -- You are right that this reinstated approach ramp on the right side of the green is very narrow and it will not allow a long second to roll into the green; however this was designed as a three shotter so the properly placed long second to the right side of the fairway will have an open view and approach to either bounce of fly a short pitch shot into the green...and if the pin is front right the best choice may be to bounce the ball in to the pin.

9 Upper -- a long and accurate drive on the left side of the fairway will have an open view and approach up the approach ramp into this green.

10 Upper -- this hole has two tees...the men have been playing the lower tee which requires a carry of the large frontal bunker to this skyline green which sits on a knoll; however, from the upper tee on the right the green opens its best face and a ball landing short in the approach will run safely onto this green.  This green was expanded to the original approach contours last year.

12 Upper -- I agree with you on this one...although the best line into the green is from the left side of the fairway, unless the drive is pounded down in front of the green on the left this narrow approach ramp is usually used when someone is pitching the third shot to the green or trying to manufacture a running shot after an errant drive that finds jail in the trees that border this fairway.

14 Upper -- Ditto also on this hole – the approach ramp is very tight, but it is available for the short pitch in with the third, or someone trying to make a very long recovery shot after a miss-hit drive.

[Steve Lapper]

Steve,

I am going to Dellwood with a group on Columbus Day!  I look forward to the visit.

DEAN

Dean,

Glad to hear of your impending visit. I look forward to your impressions of the "before." please let me know if I can be of any assistance!!
Steve

[Rick Wolffe]

Oh, Pat, one other thing about the approach ramp into 12 Upper green...which some may find interesting. 

Some years back...maybe ten or more...I was on the Upper course with the President of the Tillinghast Association, who I call Bob.  To our dismay we discovered that the approach ramp into 12 Upper green was recently soded over in bluegrass, fresh from the sod farm.  The Tillinghast Association President almost had a heart attack on the spot.  Later that evening he called me in a much perturbed mood; he told me that he had just gotten off the phone with the Green Chairman at that time, who will remain nameless, and was told that this Green Chairman decided to sod it over because he thought it was “ugly” and referred to it as the “ladies ramp” which was only used by duffers to bounce a shot home.  Bob told me he was not going to accept this and he was calling Rees.

Well long story short, Bob called me the next day and said that he had spoken with Rees who was unaware of this egregious change and that he would personally make sure that the approach ramp was reinstated.  Later that week we took a ride out to 12 Upper and we were pleased to see that the blue grass was totally gone and the approach ramp had been resoded with fairway grass.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Rick,

You can't view or explain play of the holes based on Jack Nicklaus's ability.

That's more than far fetched.

Context play as an average or better than average member would play the course.

And, as you know, all of those holes have had the approaches dramatically narrowed since 1967 and 1980, it's not the same golf course in terms of open fronts to those greens.

One only has to take an aerial view, vis a vis google earth to see how narrow and difficult those approaches are.

[Phil_the_Author]

Rick and Pat,

I think what both of you are missing is how the green complexes were ORIGINALLY designed. You won't see this in a current aerial or even one from the 1920's for that only shows overhead that there were openings into the putting surfaces. What it doesn't show is what Tilly talked about in the article that Neil posted, and that is how the green entrances were more than ramps into the greens, but that the putting surfaces were actually extensions of the entrance designs and therefor they flowed from the fairway. It is this unique aspect of Tilly's design philosophy put into practice that allows one to understand the flow of many of his greens by "reading" them from the ground fronting the greens and likewise, when viewed from behind the green, one could "read" where the player would want to have either his drive or second shot be played from, revealing Tilly's risk/reward strategies as well.

Here's a simple example, the 1st hole at Bethpage Black. (Photos taken and by courtesy of Joe Bausch who definitely missed his calling!)



Note how the putting surface rises slowly and directly from the fairway entrance. Also note how open the picture makes one think the green is from anywhere in the fairway, as this was taken from the center of it. Yet the opposite is actually true and why this hole has consistently been among the 5 most difficult holes to make it onto the putting surface in regulation in both the 2002 and 2009 U.S. Opens. See how much the green rises from the front to the middle of the green? This really is far more than all those "Bethpage Greens are flat" proponents realize, but that isn't the point, it is the DIRECTION of the undulation that is. For only when one looks at it carefully does one realize that the entire right half of the green rises slowly away from the left.

What that means is that any hole located in the back right quadrant of the green needs to be approached from the far left side of the fairway. You can't see this from the tee or the fairway, but one has to have been on the green and especially looking at it from behind to see this.

Notice in the photo taken below, taken from the center of the green, how the putting surface drifts right behind the bunker and yet how a ball that is hit from the outer side of the fairway can take advantage of the ridge and undulations to land and move right and close to the hole. Anything from the right side will face the daunting task of three challenges. First carrying the bunker, second hoping there is enough spin to not kick left away from the hole because of the angle of the undulation in relation to their fairway position, and finally, the last aspect of the green which can only be seen from behind, that the putting surfaces falls gently down and away the further right one goes so that the rough is very much in play in back of the green.



That is why so many of the bombers in the Open who carried the corner found themselves frustrated by either not getting their short approach on or, if it was, that it ended up much farther away from the hole than they expected and could understand.

Such a benign and simple hole-looking hole, yet this is an example of a Tilly design at his most subtle and challenging...

[Rick Wolffe]

Ok Pat, let me get this straight...if I'm on the 3rd hole of the Lower playing the middle tees and Jack Nicklaus in his prime is playing the same hole from the back tees, and Jack and I both place our drives on the exact same spot on the left side of the fairway around 170 yards from the green, the green and approach into the green will be open to Jack but it won't be for me?  Also, if the opening to this green is exactly the same size today as it was in 1980 and 1967 and 1926, when did it shrink?  

And furthermore, you say the approaches on "all those holes have had the approaches dramatically narrowed since 1967 and 1980," I'm sorry to inform you that your facts are very wrong.  Yes, the approach was closed off on 17 & 18 Lower by P.J. Boatwright prior to the 1980 US open.  But the approaches are the same widths on Lower holes 1, 2, 3, 5, 8. 9, 10, 11, 14, and 15, as they were in 1926.  And as I said earlier, the approach on 17 was reinstated earlier this year by taking up over 10,000 square yards of rough and replacing it with fairway turf.  The width of the opening to 7 Lower green is actually larger today than in 1926, and the width of the approach on 6 Lower is about 10 yards wide versus 12 yards wide in 1926.  We have the aerial photos to prove it and I will show you and give you a tour of the course at your earliest convenience.

[Rick Wolffe]

Phil, nice photos and cogent points.  

Question, can you tilt Joe Bausch's very nice photo of the first green at Bethpage 26 degrees to the right so the green will appear flat?  I don't want any of the "urban myths" on GCA to be busted!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ok Pat, let me get this straight...if I'm on the 3rd hole of the Lower playing the middle tees and Jack Nicklaus in his prime is playing the same hole from the back tees, and Jack and I both place our drives on the exact same spot on the left side of the fairway around 170 yards from the green, the green and approach into the green will be open to Jack but it won't be for me?

Your analysis is flawed because other than length, you're saying that you'll essentially play the same game that Nicklaus played, hitting the ball in the ideal DZ.  And, that ain't gonna happen.

And, you're asking a mid to high handicap to hit a fade off a downhill, sidehill lie that promotes a draw, into the left side of the approach to that green.  That's a typical Nicklaus shot, one he hit to perfection, and not one in the arsenal of the mid to high handicap golfer.

The other dilema is that golfers hugging the left side of that fairway often had their approach shot blocked by the towering oak trees with their drip lines extending into the corridors of play

To capitalize on my position, I'm willing to spend next weekend with you, stationed in the trees near the DZ on # 3 and bet you on every golfer who plays the hole and their ability or inability to hit the ideal DZ irrespective of what tees they play from

Also, if the opening to this green is exactly the same size today as it was in 1980 and 1967 and 1926, when did it shrink?
I couldn't tell you the exact year, but I do know that the grass fronting and surrounding that green is bluegrass, a grass not in residence for a good number of decades, a grass which adversely affects a ground ball  

And furthermore, you say the approaches on "all those holes have had the approaches dramatically narrowed since 1967 and 1980," I'm sorry to inform you that your facts are very wrong.  Yes, the approach was closed off on 17 & 18 Lower by P.J. Boatwright prior to the 1980 US open.  But the approaches are the same widths on Lower holes 1, 2, 3, 5, 8. 9, 10, 11, 14, and 15, as they were in 1926.  And as I said earlier, the approach on 17 was reinstated earlier this year by taking up over 10,000 square yards of rough and replacing it with fairway turf.  The width of the opening to 7 Lower green is actually larger today than in 1926, and the width of the approach on 6 Lower is about 10 yards wide versus 12 yards wide in 1926.  We have the aerial photos to prove it and I will show you and give you a tour of the course at your earliest convenience.

I'd be happy to do that.
The introduction of bluegrass has substantively altered those approaches.  You can't roll your ball through that fronting rough anymore

# 17 has also been changed, I think with the bunkering and the possible lowering of the green

But, I'd like to go over a hole by hole with you.

[Rick Wolffe]

Ok Pat...but rather than waste a day under a tree together...I don't want people talking...let's go out there and each of us hit a few balls from the spot of the "accurately placed drive on the left hand side of the fairway" and see how many we can play as a running shot into the green rather than a high towering Nicklaus cut shot...deal?  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ok Pat...but rather than waste a day under a tree together...I don't want people talking...let's go out there and each of us hit a few balls from the spot of the "accurately placed drive on the left hand side of the fairway" and see how many we can play as a running shot into the green rather than a high towering Nicklaus cut shot...deal?  

Rick,

Deal, unfortunately, this fall, the ground seems soft, not conducive to running the ball.
I don't know whether it's cooler nights, the soil retaining more moisture or other things and a combo, but, I'm willing to try.

How many golfers do you think can HIT the IDEAL DZ in a day ?

1 in 20 ?
1 in 100 ?

Your exercise presumes that the golfer not only hit the perfect drive to the perfect DZ, but that he then hit a perfectly flighted approach off a difficult lie, carry a creek, avoid trees and bunkers, and find a narrow path left of center of the green with a bunker behind it.

Maybe 1 in 1,000 can execute that shot.

That's why I stated your response was more theoretical than practical.

I have a particular fondness for that hole as my Dad birdied it, after eagling # 18 to get into a playoff against 8 Pros for the U.S. Open, That birdie got him into the U.S. Open

It's a great hole, requiring a great drive and AERIAL shot into that green

[Phil_the_Author]

Pat and Rick,

The relative merits of your skills challenge aside, but how does whether one can actually accomplish those shots have anything to do with how Tilly designed the hole andhow he built risk/reward into specific areas of the holes design?

For those that cannot accomplish the shots you are talking about, the 19 of 20 or 99 of 100 that Pat refers to, he created the hole in a way that those players could play it and possibly even get their pars, yet whether that was accomplished or not, could walk away from the hole having enjoyed the challenge their personal game was presented with.

Now as for the shots you are speaking to which one would need to be an accomplished player to conceive and try, that is the exact reason that Tilly designed the hole the way he did; to challenge the best while enabling the lesser to play it with enjoyment.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat and Rick,

The relative merits of your skills challenge aside, but how does whether one can actually accomplish those shots have anything to do with how Tilly designed the hole andhow he built risk/reward into specific areas of the holes design?

Phil, I think that's at the core of "playability"


For those that cannot accomplish the shots you are talking about, the 19 of 20 or 99 of 100 that Pat refers to, he created the hole in a way that those players could play it and possibly even get their pars, yet whether that was accomplished or not, could walk away from the hole having enjoyed the challenge their personal game was presented with.

Phil, I think that's the great thing about golf, that players of different abilities can play a hole differently, and while their scores may differ, the genius of the handicap system is that they can play on an equal footing despite the disparity in their abilities

Now as for the shots you are speaking to which one would need to be an accomplished player to conceive and try, that is the exact reason that Tilly designed the hole the way he did; to challenge the best while enabling the lesser to play it with enjoyment.

That's true of every architect.

They must forge a challenge for every level of golfer, a challenge that's commensurate with that golfer's skill set, be it great or poor.

[Brian Chapin]

Phil,

Did AW design the "rim" around many of the greens at BPB or are those added later as water diversion?  I can't remember exactly which greens I noticed, but several have a fairly significant rise between the green surface and the bunker, even in places that at first glance would not need water diversion.  The picture of #1 shows a version of it to the left of the green.  I am guessing Reese raised the edges to prevent water flow and maybe to bring bunkers closer to greens, rather than expanding back to original size and shapes.   Or are those just the missing contours you are referring to?  Also, it seemed that most of the hazards were situated in relation to the greens that very few balls roll off the greens into danger like they do at many other courses of his.  Maybe #15 was this way at one time, but it also has the "rim" in the front to prevent washouts.  Was that part of the reconstruction?

I'm glad you used #1 as an example of the greens rising out of the fairway.  They did a nice job bringing that contour all the way out into the fairway.  It was the first real architectural trait I noticed playing the golf course. (other than the foolishly looking narrow fairways!) So many courses have lost that look and it really is stunning!  I was a little disappointed though, as it looks like the mowers are beginning to round it off a bit.

[Phil_the_Author]

Hi Brian,

The "rim" around the greens at Bethpage Black, those areas that raise up around them especially from the front corner around to front corner, actually define the green complex from the surrounding fairway entrances and rough around the green and are all Tilly. Their purpose is not drainage; the greens themselves handle that very well in even the most severe weather. One just has to look at films of the '09 & '02 Opens to see that. Rather, these defining mounds do just that, they define the green complex and show where he expected the putting surfaces to be cut to which typically was to the crest of the mound and so that a noticable "rimming" of the putting surface could often be seen in photographs of greens during his time there. This is similar to many of the greens he designed and built everywhere.

Here is an example, the 18th green at Winged Foot West:


Notice how similar the green actually looks to the 1st at Bethpage Black if you simply made rough areas out of the putting surfaces on the fronts of the mounding since the internal contours now look and become far less undulating.

Here is another great example of this cresting of the defining mounds by the putting surface:


And so with that in mind, now look at another from Bethpage Black, this one from the 7th fairway. Taking special note of how the back half of the green rises dramatically behind up to the surrounding rear mounds as areas of rough rather than putting surfaces:


Now consider just how much putting surface has been lost here by recognizing all of this rough area as what should have been putting surface leading up into the face of the mounding in the back right:


That is why those who think of these greens as being flat are in error for they are only looking at what is in actuallity the inner two-thirds of the original putting surfaces...

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