Hardest course to be a superintendent?

[Joel_Stewart]

Yesterday I played Edgewood Tahoe on the South Shore of Lake Tahoe.  Looking at this course, and also rating it as a panelist, I really had to feel sorry for the superintendent.  I'm not saying it's the hardest course in the country to maintain, but this guy really has a difficult situation.

They have heavy snow probably 5 months of the year.
Cold weather another 2 or 3 months.
Push up greens which a number of the other courses in the area have sub air.
A good portion of the course runs around a marsh.
Many holes are in the trees allowing for little sunshine.
Enviromental limitations since it's on Lake Tahoe.
Canadian geese flock to the course.
A national TV event once a year with celebrities.
Heavy play during the summer.

What other courses have a really difficult golf season?
 

[John Blain]

I think you have to throw Oakmont in there. With extremely hot summers and a membership that is obsessed with ridiculous green speeds it can't be an easy job.

[Phil_the_Author]

Considering he has to oversee 5 courses, one that is an Open course and another that is among the higher ranked public courses, Bethpage is a brute of a job. Add in the same weather-related problems suffered by all in the northeast, a membership that numbers in the millions of residents of NY State and hundreds of millions elsewhere in America, having to deal with near-impossible political pressures due to ever-changing bosses through elections, David Catalano at bethpage has done a remarkable job balancing calls from the governor wioth complaints from Joe Public golfer...

I, for one, will dearly miss him when he retires...

[Joel_Stewart]

I think you have to throw Oakmont in there. With extremely hot summers and a membership that is obsessed with ridiculous green speeds it can't be an easy job.

You're going to have asshole members at every club and members who want to impose their ideas.  I was thinking just an environment where being a super is very difficult because of the terrain, weather, etc. type conditions.

[Jud_T]

Apparently it's Cog Hill #4...

[Sean Leary]

Olympic Club. Then you would have to deal with Joel.

[Keith OHalloran]

I would respectfully submit that the hardest club would be whichever one has the most GCA members. You would have a lot of armchair architects and a lot of people asking for Firm and Fast in all conditions.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Yesterday I played Edgewood Tahoe on the South Shore of Lake Tahoe.  Looking at this course, and also rating it as a panelist, I really had to feel sorry for the superintendent.  I'm not saying it's the hardest course in the country to maintain, but this guy really has a difficult situation.

They have heavy snow probably 5 months of the year.
Cold weather another 2 or 3 months.
Push up greens which a number of the other courses in the area have sub air.
A good portion of the course runs around a marsh.
Many holes are in the trees allowing for little sunshine.
Enviromental limitations since it's on Lake Tahoe.
Canadian geese flock to the course.
A national TV event once a year with celebrities.
Heavy play during the summer.

What other courses have a really difficult golf season?

None of those factors make the superintendent's job really hard.
Problematic, yes, but hard, no.

What makes the superintendent's job really, really hard is .............. "THE MEMBERSHIP"
 

[PGertner]

Pebble Beach. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

I think you have to throw Oakmont in there. With extremely hot summers and a membership that is obsessed with ridiculous green speeds it can't be an easy job.

JPBlain,

Quite the contrary.
The membership and the superintendent are in harmony on course conditions.

Oakmont has a very unique culture that's difficult to understand as an outsider.
But, if you were fortunate enough to know a good number of members and how they view the golf course and their superintendent, you'd begin to understand that culture.

I don't know that I'd classify the summers as extremely hot, and they've got some great soil in that area

[Roger Wolfe]

Anywhere in the transition zone... Dead bent in summer... Dead Bermuda in the winter... 12 month season... Vicious!

[Kevin Pallier]

I would have thought one where there is year round play would be tough ie: trying to keep conditions OK throughout.

[Doug Wright]

From what I've heard, Apache Stronghold presents a few challenges for a superintendent.

[John Moore II]

I would have thought one where there is year round play would be tough ie: trying to keep conditions OK throughout.

That depends though. In a place like Pinehurst, sure we had a 12 month season, but more or less, the course only has to be 'good' in spring and fall. In the summer, as long as the greens don't die, you are fine. And winter is winter, few people come out and those that do pretty much know what to expect.

Now a place like Jacksonville, FL is a different story. I knew a guy who worked at a 36 hole facility near J-ville that pumped through 135,000 rounds a year over the two courses. So, to say year-round play is somewhat mis-leading, if they actually maintain a fairly high rate of play the whole year, that is tough.

[Ian Larson]

"I don't know that I'd classify the summers as extremely hot, and they've got some great soil in that area."


Patrick I agree with all of that except the soil part. Their soil isn't great. It's the unique poa they have that doesn't produce a seedhead. They get all the benefits of poa such as the extreme density but don't have to deal with the hassles of seeds and the seeds taking away carbohydrates, thus allowing them to push the greens harder than any other poa greens.

[Todd Bell]

The one void of a sound plan and clear vision.

[Tim Gavrich]

I'd nominate one of our home courses, Vista Links.  You may have read the articles about it in the WSJ and other sources about it recently (as a part of the massive financial struggles of the town of Buena Vista, VA), but there are only a couple people available to maintain the golf course, some of whose fairways have probably 55% grass on them.  The greens, crazily enough, are almost as good as I've ever seen them, but the fairways and tee boxes are beyond belief.  If any superintendents are interested in doing some pro-bono work elsewhere, Vista Links would be a good candidate...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/virginia-town-puts-city-hall-loan-collateral-golf/story?id=11430032

[Chris Hans]

Philly area for sure and Pine Valley.

[Jeffrey Stein]

I would have to nominate Winged Foot as one of the hardest.  I visited last summer and spoke with the Super and some members of the crew.  Not only do both courses get constant play but the expectations for conditioning are extremely high.  It seemed like everyone I spoke to was in their 1st year working at the golf course, very high turnover.

The East and West courses also intertwine with one another.  This makes it necessary to maintain two 18 holes golf courses as one 36 hole golf course.  I was very impressed with the consistent look and conditioning of both.

[Tom Yost]

From what I've heard, Apache Stronghold presents a few challenges for a superintendent.

If only they had one.

[Ian Larson]

I wouldn't name a single golf club that has a huge budget and all the resources available to tackle any agronomic issues and hire huge staffs to delegate responsibility. The hardest courses to be a superintendent are the ones without a big budget, yet face a multitude of agronomic challenges and get by with small staffs. The guys with budgets solve their problems with money. The guys without budgets solve their problems with sweat and creativity. Each golf course presents it's own unique conditions, some worse than others. What makes it hard is trying to manage under the conditions and doing more with less.

[Joel_Stewart]

I wouldn't name a single golf club that has a huge budget and all the resources available to tackle any agronomic issues and hire huge staffs to delegate responsibility. The hardest courses to be a superintendent are the ones without a big budget, yet face a multitude of agronomic challenges and get by with small staffs. The guys with budgets solve their problems with money. The guys without budgets solve their problems with sweat and creativity. Each golf course presents it's own unique conditions, some worse than others. What makes it hard is trying to manage under the conditions and doing more with less.

Ian: Well said which is mainly why I suggested early that private clubs be excluded from this list.  The problem is we really don't know the budget Edgewood Tahoe or Apache has or how many employees they have.  Clubs mentioned like Olympic, Oakmont and Winged Foot have enormous budgets as well as other resources, such as turf consultants and arborists as well as really good equipment.

[Ian Larson]

Joel

If we knew that the super and his assistant were also responsible for plowing snow in a surrounding housing development at Edgewood in Tahoe that would officially be a hard ass superintendent position. Almost downright miserable...

[Ian Andrew]

I know of a course in Saskatchewan with poor water, poor drainage and salts in the native soil.
There can't possibly be much worse than that.

Too much rain brings the salts up from the ground, too little and the salts don't get flushed down out of the top 12 inches.
Irrigation water acts as a slow poison for the turf during drought.

Could it be tougher?

[Anthony_Nysse]

This certainly isnt one of the easier ones. Nick Bright was a "friend in crime" while I was on Hilton Head.

http://turfnet.com/view_news.php?obj_id=621

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