[Chris Buie]

I would be willing to make a substantial wager that you can't beat this little gem.

[Phil McDade]

Desmond lives!

[Randy Thompson]

Build it and they will come!

[Chris Buie]

That is, of course, the hole you will be doomed to playing for eternity if you don't shape up and start acting right.

[Kyle Harris]

No.

This is too far on the "other" end to be bad.

This is an honest hole, it's not trying to be anything other than what it is. Demanding? Sure. Way out of the ordinary? Sure. But that's a good thing. A feature so far off that it is actually good. I'm sad that I will never play this hole.

There are far worse, far faker. Let's try to find a revetted face bunker in the middle of a woodland setting.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Randy

The Hell they will - when alive they expected and experienced much much MUCH better, that’s just a joke, problem people pay good money to play it when they should be paid to use it. As for the architect, can't call him a designer (it would be an insult to anyone with any design ability). The architect seems to be saying F#@k It, I have run out of ideas or having a very senior moment in trying to remember what he does for a living, let alone his name.

Of course they will not come, would you? Time to send a gunship in to blast these island Greens to kingdom come

Melvyn

[Michael Dugger]

Melvyn,

Do you know what course that is and anything about the architect?

Indeed it's poor GCA, but indeed plenty of thought went into it...

[Tim Bert]

I'll take the double green with a cart path tunnel underneath over that recycled island green photo any day.

[PCCraig]

I would be willing to make a substantial wager that you can't beat this little gem.

It's not pretty, but it gets points for being different in my book.

[Carl Nichols]

does that hole have a name?

[Marty Bonnar]

'Clashing Rocks'.
And it's a piece of a wider design which has always deserved discussion. I am a lover of symbolism in landscape design - and this one fits the bill nicely!
FBD.

[Bill_McBride]

Randy

The Hell they will - when alive they expected and experienced much much MUCH better, that’s just a joke, problem people pay good money to play it when they should be paid to use it. As for the architect, can't call him a designer (it would be an insult to anyone with any design ability). The architect seems to be saying F#@k It, I have run out of ideas or having a very senior moment in trying to remember what he does for a living, let alone his name.

Of course they will not come, would you? Time to send a gunship in to blast these island Greens to kingdom come

Melvyn

Melvyn - interestingly enough, the designer of that crazy hole, Desmond Muirhead, co-authored a very good book on "How to play the Old Course" with Tip Anderson.

[Marty Bonnar]

Is everyone happier now?:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=stone+harbor+golf+new+jersey&sll=39.083572,-74.748058&sspn=0.055298,0.21904&gl=uk&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Stone+Harbor+Golf+Club+Heliport,+Cape+May+Court+House,+Cape+May,+New+Jersey+08210,+United+States&ll=39.113513,-74.811015&spn=0.003455,0.009602&t=h&z=17

 
FBD.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Bill

Then it’s clear he should spend more time writing and stop this Friday afternood job of designing. Seems he missed something when at St Andrews.

Melvyn

PS Although I will give him credit for doing what many other architects have failed to do - hide the cart paths under water so we can't see let alone use them - perhaps there is hope for him yet.

[Ulrich Mayring]

There's a place for this kind of thing, why not? Hell, I don't like to listen to John Cage and we sure don't need too many musicians like him, but he has a place and why not? Thinking outside the box is what makes for progress, not thinking at all is what makes for crap.

Ok, enough about Muirhead, what about this fairway concept:



Ulrich

[Melvyn Morrow]

Ulrich

We have to decide if Golf is a water sport or to be played on a green (brown) solid land. For all the faith many seem to have regards my elitist position, I still cannot walk on water nor play on the bloody stuff - I have a tendency as with my ball to effing well sink which does not do much for my game of Golf. 

Water polo is at home in water, golf is not IMHO.

Melvyn

[Ulrich Mayring]

Last time I was in Scotland they had many fairways bordering on water and some could only be reached by hitting over the bloody stuff

So, some types of water seem to be allowed, others not. Heck, they have a cool pond at Ganton! But the one on the Eden course sucks! Don't you find that at least a little confusing?

Ulrich

[Melvyn Morrow]

Ulrich

Rivers, streams, ponds, lakes courses built on islands are all Ok but not island greens, they have the ability to kill the game, slow up the game and make all those waiting to do the same. Big deal some can hit the Island green, but to what cost to the round and the round of others.

Island Greens are the product of a blank mind who can't find a real hazard to test the golfer, but he seems happy to kill the golfers game and day. Sorry, IMO they are the Devils work unlike the blind hole that test the golfers will and spirit.

You will never find Moses in the water of an island green, there nowhere to hide let alone go (unless down) and certainly not quickly.


Melvyn

[RJ_Daley]

Melvyn, Des Muirhead was definitely not a blank mind.  I envy Tommy Naccarato to have gotten to spend some quality time with Des.  Too bad Tommy isn't around these days to conduct a serious discussion about Des Muirhead and what he was all about.  His place in GCA is definitely one of significance and a force of creativity, INHO.

[Mike Hogan]

Here is one for Melvyn. I bet that don't have anything like this in the UK.

[Ken Moum]

I don't know if this beats anything posted so far, but I was about to start a thread with this gem from northern New Mexico.  It's the kind of thing that that makes my wife think golf course operators, architects, superintendents, et. al., are out to make women give up golf...



As Ross said, "As beautiful as trees are, and as fond as you and I are of them, we still must not lose sight of the fact that there is a limited place for them in golf. We must not allow our sentiments to crowd out the real intent of a golf course, that of providing fair playing conditions. If it in any way interferes with a properly played stroke, I think the tree is an unfair hazard and should not be allowed to stand."

[Melvyn Morrow]

My kingdom, my kingdom for a submarine.

How good or bad a designer is can only be defined by what he leaves us – that Island Green should be considered for what it is a great big carbuncle on the face of any golf course IMHO. It’s there for reaction , for the ego of the designer, its has no place on a golf course, it will help slow the pace of the game and round on each and every day – I do not want to think of construction or on-going maintenance costs either.

Melvyn

[Powell Arms]

 

[John Moore II]

For what its worth, this hole doesn't exist in the pictured configuration anymore. So, members don't have to worry about playing it. I actually like the hole. I like that it is different. I like that some thought went into doing something that was far different than what had been seen before. Bunkers on islands? Come on, thats original.

As far as maintenance costs, I doubt they are much higher than standard greens.

How about if the green is built on a natural island?
Like this:
http://linksmagazine.com/best_of_golf/features/island_greens/four_seasons_golf_club_punta_mita.aspx

[Ronald Montesano]

I'm confident that old Des Muirhead (may he rest in peace) was the only archie to invoke syl and charybdis when designing a golf hole.  My thinking is, the Stone Harbor people might have kept a bucket of reclaimed golf balls on that hole, so that when they faced it in those 30-mph winds that made the green insurmountable, they would not have bid farewell to their own ammo.  Its passing was a day of tears and shakes for me, even though I never played across its blades and grains.

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