Dottie Pepper's Take on Chambers Bay

[Sean_A]

Let me get this straight.  Are folks complaining about a guy who drove a par 4, but then had a hell of job earning a birdie?  Was there a sensible lay-up play for the hole? 

Ciao

[DBE]

Knowing Dottie Pepper personally, I'd say her comments were honest and without bitterness.  Whether or not she played Chambers Bay really isn't relevant as she walked the course several times and saw the same holes played by a lot of different players. She is well qualified to share her observations. There were an unbelievable amount slow play penalties during the US Am meaning that either there an inordinate number of very slow players, the USGA didn't allot enough time through the designated check points or a combination of both. Practice rounds, normally with groups of four players are terribly slow but as she noted, if tees are moved during the US Open extreme distances (even changing par on holes) and even one hole may have a second green used, finishing practice rounds the same day as started will be a difficult task.  Two Champions Tour members were there and neither were complimentary.  The walk for everyone not on tees, fairways and greens was dangerous and several fell and were injured.  Congratulations to Peter Uihlein and his imagination in playing so many shots that came to rest near the hole.  I'd be hesitant criticizing Dottie for her candid observations.  I wish CB and the USGA luck in the presentation of the 2015 US Open. I'm holding my breath...

[Mark Pearce]

Adrian, we play golf in the same country but it's clear our experiences of the game and the people we play with are at polar extremes.

I recorded the semi-finals and finals (that's all that was shown on TV over here) to see what all the talk was about.  I loved CB.  More interestingly, all my mates who watched loved it, too.  Even more surprisingly, my wife and kids (who are all golfers but don't watch much TV golf outside the Majors and Ryder Cup) sat glued to the TV.  Cameron, who is 14 and a member at Elie, actually asked how he could get to play there.  He has never shown any interest in playing at any other US Major venue.  Not Augusta, not Pebble and certyainly not WF which everyone over here I have spoken to thought looked absurd.

Pepper may have a point about safety, her other points, on my TV viewing are based on a different perception of the game.

Tim, I'd like to get your comments in context.  What did you think of the set-up at Pebble this year?  It strikes me that at CB a smart, well executed shot gains benefits.  14 and 17 at PB didn't.  You want Mickey Mouse golf? Well both Pebble and Whistling Straights did a better job of approximating to Clown's Mouths than CB, in my book.  What did you make of PB and WS?

[Steve Lang]

 

"not quite prime time"

so CB must be closing in on the objective or else she'd probably have said something worse.. being a rather candid commentator


my first posted thoughts on CB included the opinion that "the pros aren't going to like it", I guess I could have also said the Sr Pros are really not going to like it!  

its not "clowns mouth" or "windmill" miniture golf there by any means, but with some of those slopes the penalty for not being close to perfect, i.e., in the right place, does seem extreme, so maybe its  debatable whether "CB's quirks Jumped the Shark?"

and then it follows whether spectator fun golf (imminent disaster) shouldn't be in the legacy of tournament golf.. what kind of golf would that be?

[Adrian_Stiff]

Adrian, we play golf in the same country but it's clear our experiences of the game and the people we play with are at polar extremes.

I recorded the semi-finals and finals (that's all that was shown on TV over here) to see what all the talk was about.  I loved CB.  More interestingly, all my mates who watched loved it, too.  Even more surprisingly, my wife and kids (who are all golfers but don't watch much TV golf outside the Majors and Ryder Cup) sat glued to the TV.  Cameron, who is 14 and a member at Elie, actually asked how he could get to play there.  He has never shown any interest in playing at any other US Major venue.  Not Augusta, not Pebble and certyainly not WF which everyone over here I have spoken to thought looked absurd.

Pepper may have a point about safety, her other points, on my TV viewing are based on a different perception of the game.

Tim, I'd like to get your comments in context.  What did you think of the set-up at Pebble this year?  It strikes me that at CB a smart, well executed shot gains benefits.  14 and 17 at PB didn't.  You want Mickey Mouse golf? Well both Pebble and Whistling Straights did a better job of approximating to Clown's Mouths than CB, in my book.  What did you make of PB and WS?

Mark - I like proper golf, hitting a ball 300 yards onto a green and being on the right or wrong ledge is not proper. I dont like that 12th green complex at CB and I think contours on greens are getting OTT on some of these new courses, in particular Kingsbarns, Castle Course, Chambers Bay I think they have pushed the limits too far, not on all greens obviously but on many. Some will enjoy, some wont but when you are maintaining greens at fastish speeds and 6 foot putts miss and go 40 foot off in some oblique direction that to my eye is Mickey Mouse. Its a fine line getting contouring right or wrong, I think Augusta set up is sometimes wrong, Shinnecock a few years ago pushed it too far.
But as I have continually said they were lots of good bits about CB and I doubt our golfing eyes are actually Poles apart.

[Pat Burke]

First, I've never been to Chambers Bay, so I really don't have a dog in this fight.
I can not make comments on strategy, or design, but in my world, it simply looked like
the USGA pushed to envelope too far.  Some of the reactions of shots on greens "looked"
 crazy, but I believe that it is more of a speed/dryness issue from watching the AM.
A couple of shots reacted balls thrown in a bath tub.  They rolled around, up/down/over, and settled in
a low spot.  Is that a design problem?  I don't believe so, it's a problem of having a unique golf course that
they were trying to push the limits on and missed.  Not a USGA bash either, just too new a facility to have a track record
to know enough. 

[Tim Leahy]

Adrian, we play golf in the same country but it's clear our experiences of the game and the people we play with are at polar extremes.

I recorded the semi-finals and finals (that's all that was shown on TV over here) to see what all the talk was about.  I loved CB.  More interestingly, all my mates who watched loved it, too.  Even more surprisingly, my wife and kids (who are all golfers but don't watch much TV golf outside the Majors and Ryder Cup) sat glued to the TV.  Cameron, who is 14 and a member at Elie, actually asked how he could get to play there.  He has never shown any interest in playing at any other US Major venue.  Not Augusta, not Pebble and certyainly not WF which everyone over here I have spoken to thought looked absurd.

Pepper may have a point about safety, her other points, on my TV viewing are based on a different perception of the game.

Tim, I'd like to get your comments in context.  What did you think of the set-up at Pebble this year?  It strikes me that at CB a smart, well executed shot gains benefits.  14 and 17 at PB didn't.  You want Mickey Mouse golf? Well both Pebble and Whistling Straights did a better job of approximating to Clown's Mouths than CB, in my book.  What did you make of PB and WS?

Pebble Beach made no premiss of being a firm & fast golf course, 14 didn't invite shots in two, in required a dart like wedge. I didn't see anyone at either PB or WS have to putt the ball twenty feet past any of the holes to get the ball near the cup.

[jim_lewis]

I'm confident that the greens complexes at CB would be fun to play............if you are playing for fun.

During the US Open (and the amateur, for that matter), the players are not playing for fun. Their careers are on the line. It seems natural to me that they might view the course from a different perspecitve that the average player.

[Mike Benham]

...  a dart like wedge.

Are you implying that the golfers accuracy needs to be tested or ability to stop and spin the ball (to control the roll)?

Most US Open courses are anything but soft (except those on the East Coast where unplanned rain screws up the firmness of the greens) ...

Can we infer that you think that US Open courses ARE a ATT Crosby (February) Pebble Beach versus what we saw in June?

[Jerry Kluger]

I think the results speak for themselves.  The players who advanced deep into the match play and the overall winner were not flukes.  I think the level of play improved as they got deeper into the matches and they learned the course.  The amateurs did not have the opportunities that the pros will in preparing for the Open - i have to imagine that most pros will make at least one trip to CB before the event and then they will play probably 4 or 5 rounds in preparation which will make a huge difference.  And don't forget the caddies who will accompany the top players - they are pros and will learn the nuances of the course.