Dead Greens

[Gary Daughters]

The loss of bentgrass greens to prolonged heat in the Atlanta area is staggering.  Yesterday I played a course that probably should have been closed from a strictly agronomic standpoint, but there were so many signs of neglect that it appeared it was being kept open to pull in some reduced green fees.  It was sad, and it raised a few troubling questions I can't answer:

1) is this the choice some owners have.. either risk further damage by staying open or risk going under from loss of revenue?
2)  will a summer such as this one accelerate the die-out of courses that were teetering on the edge?
3)  is the era of bentgrass over in the deep South?
4)  now that daytime temps aren't in the 90's every day, how long might it take bentgrass greens to rebound?

[Randy Thompson]

Gary,
We expect a lot of courses to convert to the new ultra Bermuda´s and the trend started a couple of years back, the tendency will probably increase. There have been some similar threads in the last six to eight weeks. If the bent was stressed but alive you should see a good improvement in the next couple of weeks, in areas that it died expect more along the lines of a couple of months. Its probably too late to convert to Bermuda now so I imagine most courses that take this decision will wait until next May for example. As to if this will be the final drops that cause courses to go under, depends on how big the glass was originally but logics seems to say it will play in the formula and could push a few over the edge.

[Don_Mahaffey]

Its actually not too late to convert to bermuda. IMO, Sept is about the best grow-in month for bermuda greens as you usually have plenty of soil heat and sunshine, but don't have quite as much day time heating. Sprigs are highly perishable and you usually lose a certain % no matter how diligent you are; its a little easier in Sept to get a higher % of the sprigs to take.
Depending on location of course, it is possible to plant bermuda greens in early to mid Sep and be putting in Nov. Might have to deal with covers and use some other unusual tactics as well, but barring an unusually cold fall, it can be done. 

[Craig Van Egmond]

Gary,

     After a brutally hot and humid summer here in Oklahoma there are a handful of coursesthat are making the switch to bermuda greens right now and most expect to be back open by October, so as Don points out there is still time.

[Jerry Kluger]

May I ask a perhaps too basic question:  Do Bermuda greens go dormant when the temperature drops to a certain level? 

[Don_Mahaffey]

All bermudas go dormant after a hard freeze or heavy frost.
Sometimes greens will stay green longer because the short leaves are closest to the warm soil. That’s why the longer grass in the roughs will go off first. Once you lose soil temps, the greens will go dormant.

Here on the gulf coast, 3 of the last 4 years my greens never went completely dormant. Only last winter did they go completly dormant. In previous winters I always had some color and a little growth Nov thru Feb.

In AZ my bermuda was dormant from late Oct thru late March. That cold desert night was the reason the bermuda was slow to come out of dormancy.

[Jerry Kluger]

Don: I just wonder how that would go over with members of a private club here in the Mid Atlantic where we could get a deep frost by early December but could play throughout the winter if we get days above freezing to get rid of any snow we have.

[Gary Daughters]

Jerry, I enjoy putting on dormant bermuda.  Doesn't get much faster or firmer than that.

Don and Randy:  Thanks for your input.  I've never summoned the nerve to ask a greenskeeper this in person, but I've wondered what is it like to watch your greens die.  How fast can it happen?

[Chris Buie]

There were a fair amount of dead spots on the greens of Pinehurst #1 when I played it Saturday.  I haven't seen them like that before.  I heard Aronomink was having a devil of a time as well.

[Jason McNamara]

Don: I just wonder how that would go over with members of a private club here in the Mid Atlantic where we could get a deep frost by early December but could play throughout the winter if we get days above freezing to get rid of any snow we have.

Jerry, I am with Gary on this.  As long as there's not too much traffic, dormant bermuda is great.  I think a bigger consideration for your location might be how long it takes to perk up again in the spring.  If you get lots of April/May play, some of the membership might not enjoy seeing the dormant grass - and possibly a few scruffy parts in high-traffic areas.  But generally, it plays great.

IIRC the rule of thumb in Texas is that the bermuda comes back when high temp + low temp = ~145 (80/65, or thereabouts), but that certainly may be the particular strains we have here.  I don't know enough to say (which I realize I am not supposed to admit here!) but if there's a bermuda more suited for slightly more moderate climes, that could be the way to go.

[Randy Thompson]

Don,
Granted you can obtain a bermuda cover still but will you have sufficient carbohydrate reserves and thatch built up to make it through a cold or a little bit abnormal cold winter and still handle traffic throughout the winter months. Its a crap shoot in my oppinion and I hate doing major renovation processes twice, its not ideal planting this time of the year but granted that doesn´t mean you can not pull it off but you need to have the fall and winter in your favor and traffic hopefully be a minimum. Again, a lot will depend on where you are and the specific site conditions. Putting covers on and off will certainly improve your chances. All pretty much what you have stated and I am just reinforcing.

[Randy Thompson]

I've never summoned the nerve to ask a greenskeeper this in person, but I've wondered what is it like to watch your greens die.  How fast can it happen?

1. Kind of like having someboy sticking a knife in one of your childrens stomach and then turning it every so slowly and you are unable to do absolutely nothing to help save them.
2. Depends on the circumstances, can be a slow death or a matter of hours, they both suck!
3. Then comes the insecurity issues and the constant analyzing at night and continues all day and throughout the night.
4. The pain starts to go away after one starts to accept the situation and you move on and taking everything you can with you from the live and learn catagory.

[Ken Moum]

Jerry, I enjoy putting on dormant bermuda.  Doesn't get much faster or firmer than that.

Don and Randy:  Thanks for your input.  I've never summoned the nerve to ask a greenskeeper this in person, but I've wondered what is it like to watch your greens die.  How fast can it happen?

I don't remember who said it, but one of the GCSAA members I met while working there told me, "There are two kinds of superintendents, those who have killed the grass, and those who will kill the grass."

There's a prett well-developed assortment of  gallows humor that surrounds the subject of grass dieing and it's potential effect on the superintendent's livlihood.

[Brian Chapin]

I've never summoned the nerve to ask a greenskeeper this in person, but I've wondered what is it like to watch your greens die.  How fast can it happen?


Imagine your dog dyeing.... it's like that.

It can happen pretty quickly if your not careful.  I have had plenty of grass die in my time in the business.  One course I won't mention lost 80% of its Greens in little more than a month after hosting a tournament in May.  I am glad to say I was only an intern at that point..... The worst part of greens dying is having to make the decision to admit there is a problem.  Memberships don't want to be disturbed or inconvenienced, and rightfully so.  People pay enormous sums of money to play golf and expect the conditions to be nothing short of spectacular.  I would speculate that most of us who lose grass know it's going to happen long before the memberships have any idea, which is what makes it so difficult.  Many times turf loss can be prevented by reduced mowing frequency, raised HOC, routine topdressing, and in some cases aerification to increase airflow and gas exchange in the soil profile.  So the most gut wrenching decision is whether or not to admit there is a problem, and therefor disrupt normal play.  Superintendents know that thinning greens with a small amount of turf decline are rarely noticed by members and so they often times, against better judgement "let it ride" hoping for better weather and that they can eek through the summer without major loss.  It makes for many sleepless nights and a very uncomfortable work environment as the greens slowly but surely continue to check out.  Suddenly you are no longer the "favorite son" at the club.  Now every missed put is your fault.  The greens are slow, the greens are bumpy, the greens are soft.  The members are embarrassed to bring guests, tournaments are cancelled and revenue is at an all time low.  In your head you know its only a matter of time before you get that call into the club house by the green committee chairman or owner.  It goes on for weeks and weeks and unless you are able to drastically improve conditions, your fate is sealed.  And then what?? The whole region knows you killed your greens.  Members talk, employees and salesman talk.... how will you ever convince another club that you are the right guy for the job? 

I agree with another quote from this thread.... "there are superintendents who have lost grass, and there are superintendents who will lose grass", but I would add this... "all superintendents will lose grass, it's how quickly you can get it to come back that shows your true skill"

[Jim Sweeney]

The USGA Green Section has put out a good deal of info on this year's grass issues.

Go to USGA.org, find the Green Section page, and look through the Green Section Record archives for 2010. You can subscribe to the Record, the weekly e-mail, which gives lots of input from GS agronomists all over the country. Last week they produced a video and powerpoints from all their sections. Good stuff.

For info about grassing trends in your area, call your sectional agronomist. They know what's going on, what's working, and what's on the horizon.

[A.G._Crockett]

Two case studies from here in Georgia:

The club at which I play has greens that have been stressed, but survived nicely and are now well along in recovery following a little over a week of lower humidity and cooler nights.  We don't close, even on Mondays, play was always heavy, and there were never temporary greens used.  There were fans installed all over the place and the maintenance staff really hustled, but I'm sure there was no magic or anything unique in anything that they did in that regard.

Meanwhile, just a few miles away (less than 10 as the crow flies) is a Top 100 course that has lost some, if not all, of their greens.  Their maintenance budget is far, far larger than my club's, I'm sure, and the amount of play far, far less.

The difference?  Some of it is certainly luck, but IMO it is the speed that the membership expects the greens to be running on a normal day.  Our membership is quite content with slower speeds at times of stress.  My guess is that the courses who trademark themselves as have consistently fast greens may well be paying a very, very high price this summer, at least around here.

[Dan Herrmann]

Here's how strange this summer has been.

My club is in zip code 19520 (Elverson, PA).  We're about 40 miles NW of Philly, which has had 50+ days of 90F weather this year.  A couple of days > 100 too.

Our last decent rain was in mid-July, although we've had stretches of days with dewpoints over 70F.

Thanks to our greenkeeping staff, the greens, fairways, and tees are in really good shape.  Here's the strange thing - bermuda grasses are showing up in the rough areas.  A pretty good amount of it too.  My guess is that it's usually forced out by the native bluegrasses and fescues, but they've taken a hit this year due to the stresses.

Is this unique, or are other transition zone courses seeing an increase in bermudas in the rough this year?

[Chris Buie]

This is an interesting article about the trials and tribulations the superintendents are going through in the Pinehurst area.  This is the worst summer I recall as far as the conditions of the greens.  There is a lot of debate about how best to deal with various grass issues. 

http://www.thepilot.com/news/2010/sep/08/course-superintedents-ready-to-bid-summer-farewell/

[Anthony_Nysse]

http://memphis.bizjournals.com/memphis/stories/2010/09/06/story7.html?b=1283745600%5E3894421

With Championship Bermuda, the greens don’t have to be chemically treated with fungicides. And he says they no longer have to employ “wilt watchers,” two employees who monitored the greens and spray them down if they get dried out.

Interesting that they think they wont need to spray fungicides or have wilt watchers. Maybe not to the extent of having bentgrass where it's not supposed to be, but you will definately need a fungicide program and have, at times, guys watch greens.

[Dan Herrmann]

We had another 90 degree day yesterday.  Today here in SE Pennsylvania we're under a Red Flag Warning for fire danger.

No measurable rain since mid-July, and the wind today is just sucking any moisture out of the course. 

[Steve Okula]

http://memphis.bizjournals.com/memphis/stories/2010/09/06/story7.html?b=1283745600%5E3894421

With Championship Bermuda, the greens don’t have to be chemically treated with fungicides. And he says they no longer have to employ “wilt watchers,” two employees who monitored the greens and spray them down if they get dried out.

Interesting that they think they wont need to spray fungicides or have wilt watchers. Maybe not to the extent of having bentgrass where it's not supposed to be, but you will definately need a fungicide program and have, at times, guys watch greens.

Anthony, what fungicides do you spray on bermuda greens? I managed Tifdwarf greens in Florida for six years, never once sprayed a fungicide, never once saw a disease.

What would the guys be watching greens for?

[Anthony_Nysse]

Steve,
  Tifdwaft is a much differnt monster than tifeagle. We spray for bermudagrass decline (August and September) I have seen pythuim in December, algae in the summer and of course, fairy ring.
  When I say, "watching greens," I am referring to greens checkers. We hardly run overheads as it is, but starting in September, we handwater only, unless putting down a wetting agent. You can have all the USGA greens that you want, there will always be spots to water.

[Gary Daughters]

Dan H:

What's striking about this summer's die-out in Atlanta is that we've had appreciable rain.  The problem has been the relentless heat, I think 90+ degrees every day from June 1 until last week save one or two days.   That is almost unheard of.   A superintendent told me the soil beneath one of his greens was 102 degrees (I believe that's what he said) when he measured it one evening at 9:00.

[Roger Wolfe]

Jerry, I enjoy putting on dormant bermuda.  Doesn't get much faster or firmer than that.

Don and Randy:  Thanks for your input.  I've never summoned the nerve to ask a greenskeeper this in person, but I've wondered what is it like to watch your greens die.  How fast can it happen?

I am not a greenskeeper, but a twenty day stretch of 95 degrees, high humidity and no rain from June 7 to June 27 really hurt a few of our's.  Perfect on June 7th... seriously stressed by June 27th.  Then the heat of July/August set in.  Now they are recovered but its been a painful summer.

[Chris Cupit]

FWIW I recently had Pat O'Brien come and do both a site evaluation for my course and he also came and gave a presentation to my membership on the pros and cons of the new ultra dwarf bermudas versus bent in the transition zone (Atlanta).

After the two hour presentation ( 45 minute presentation and 1 hr 15 min of questions!) my superintendent, Mark Hoban, his asst. Lucas Walters and I joined Pat for dinner and more talk about the ultra dwarfs with Champion, mini verde and Tif?something?? Being the basis for the discussion.
Pat is a HUGE proponent of the ultra dwarfs for Atlanta but the notion of no fungicides at least in Atlanta is a myth.  For Atlanta, according to both Pat and Chris Purvis (the super widely regarded in Atlanta as having the best Champion greens around) fungicides are necessary.  the overall cost may be less than bent but fungicides are applied even in the winter.  Also there is a significant labor expense in the winter months as tarps must still be applied by hand. 

Ultra dwarfs Bermudas will have an impact in Atlanta but there ain't no perfect grass!