Maltby says CB needs "modifications", what would you suggest?

[Garland Bayley]

... (That Open won by Goosen has been unfairly characterized as over-the-top throughout the course, when in my mind only two holes were -- the green they watered mid-round on the last day, and the green -- 17? -- where Mickelson three-putted from about five feet.) ...

The green Mickelson three putted wasn't over the top. If so, my course has some green that are over the top all the time. Mickelson simply blew it and put the ball above the hole, when everyone knew you couldn't do that and expect to survive with a good score.

I had to find at least one correction for you.

[Phil McDade]

... (That Open won by Goosen has been unfairly characterized as over-the-top throughout the course, when in my mind only two holes were -- the green they watered mid-round on the last day, and the green -- 17? -- where Mickelson three-putted from about five feet.) ...

The green Mickelson three putted wasn't over the top. If so, my course has some green that are over the top all the time. Mickelson simply blew it and put the ball above the hole, when everyone knew you couldn't do that and expect to survive with a good score.

I had to find at least one correction for you.

Garland:

I put that example in just to yank your chain! Seriously, Mickelson has argued the green was too quick (and/or the hole placement unfair) if he couldn't stop it within five feet of the hole from three feet above.

[Steve Salmen]

A question for those in the area:  Does CB look like it did on TV every year, this time of year?  I thought it looked fantastic.  Loved the color. 

Also, do they water it a lot?  I fear that very firm and fast conditions can slow up play a lot.

[Tom Johnston]

A few notes - the weather in June in the Pac NW is cloudy and fairly cool, and can be damp.  Weather doesn't tend to get "good" until the day after Independence Day...or July 15th.  The local joke this year was that it was "June-uary".

While I'm becoming a bigger fan of CB having watched the Am in person 2x (and played 3x), it does strike me that both #9 and #15 are downhill shots at the same angle (into or across the prevailing wind), and while Richard's suggestion may be impractical, it would address it.

I'm curious if anyone thinks that the setup on Wednesday had anything to do with the fact that all of the mid-amateur players who made it to match play lost.

Also, for those other folks local to the Pac NW, this was the first time I saw the alternate green used on #5.  I spoke to a caddy who said that it had never been used on his normal loops.  Have any of y'all played using it?  (Did anyone else have my reaction when Uihlein hit his drive close on Saturday but too far right and had no way to get close to the pin - this will drive people batty!).

Richard - thanks for the in depth comments and coverage.

[Garland Bayley]

... (That Open won by Goosen has been unfairly characterized as over-the-top throughout the course, when in my mind only two holes were -- the green they watered mid-round on the last day, and the green -- 17? -- where Mickelson three-putted from about five feet.) ...

The green Mickelson three putted wasn't over the top. If so, my course has some green that are over the top all the time. Mickelson simply blew it and put the ball above the hole, when everyone knew you couldn't do that and expect to survive with a good score.

I had to find at least one correction for you.

Garland:

I put that example in just to yank your chain! Seriously, Mickelson has argued the green was too quick (and/or the hole placement unfair) if he couldn't stop it within five feet of the hole from three feet above.

My recollection of Phil's interview after the round was that he said he knew he had to keep the ball below the hole, but that he misjudged how much the wind in his face would hold up the ball. Of course, sometimes Phil is not the model of consistency in his statements.

[Phil McDade]

... (That Open won by Goosen has been unfairly characterized as over-the-top throughout the course, when in my mind only two holes were -- the green they watered mid-round on the last day, and the green -- 17? -- where Mickelson three-putted from about five feet.) ...

The green Mickelson three putted wasn't over the top. If so, my course has some green that are over the top all the time. Mickelson simply blew it and put the ball above the hole, when everyone knew you couldn't do that and expect to survive with a good score.

I had to find at least one correction for you.

Garland:

I put that example in just to yank your chain! Seriously, Mickelson has argued the green was too quick (and/or the hole placement unfair) if he couldn't stop it within five feet of the hole from three feet above.

My recollection of Phil's interview after the round was that he said he knew he had to keep the ball below the hole, but that he misjudged how much the wind in his face would hold up the ball. Of course, sometimes Phil is not the model of consistency in his statements.

If I recall correctly (always a futile task...), Mickelson said he hit a poor putt on the comebacker from five feet; it was uphill, and he rushed it. But I think I remember him being critical of literally not being able to stop his ball near the hole on a three-footer if he missed. Agree he left in in the wrong spot to begin with...

[Garland Bayley]

...
While I'm becoming a bigger fan of CB having watched the Am in person 2x (and played 3x), it does strike me that both #9 and #15 are downhill shots at the same angle (into or across the prevailing wind), and while Richard's suggestion may be impractical, it would address it.
...

Richard's suggestion fixes the wrong hole! Most people I know agree 8 is the weakest hole on the course. If you come up with a reasonable fix for 8, then you can reconsider 9. However, it seems to me that the routing was made the way it was, because the land left open was an example of the flat land left over by mining like the land that they chose to avoid by avoiding the southern portion of the property. So, if they don't build 8 and 9 where they are now, they have to create something from the most boring land on the portion of the property that they used.

[Sean Leary]

A question for those in the area:  Does CB look like it did on TV every year, this time of year?  I thought it looked fantastic.  Loved the color. 

Also, do they water it a lot?  I fear that very firm and fast conditions can slow up play a lot.

It has been kept pretty green up to now, and the greens have been kept on the slow side.

Will be interesting to see what they do going forward.

[Jim Nugent]

Agree he left in in the wrong spot to begin with...
[/quote]

I guess he did, though anytime you play a sand shot on the 71st hole of the U.S. Open to 3 feet of the cup, doesn't seem like a bad shot to me.  

As to Maltbie's statement, he has played the British Open a number of times, hasn't he?  So two questions.  One, does CB play like the British Open courses, and two, how does Maltbie like them?  

[Sean Leary]

...
While I'm becoming a bigger fan of CB having watched the Am in person 2x (and played 3x), it does strike me that both #9 and #15 are downhill shots at the same angle (into or across the prevailing wind), and while Richard's suggestion may be impractical, it would address it.
...

Richard's suggestion fixes the wrong hole! Most people I know agree 8 is the weakest hole on the course. If you come up with a reasonable fix for 8, then you can reconsider 9. However, it seems to me that the routing was made the way it was, because the land left open was an example of the flat land left over by mining like the land that they chose to avoid by avoiding the southern portion of the property. So, if they don't build 8 and 9 where they are now, they have to create something from the most boring land on the portion of the property that they used.

Since they created the rest of the course in the flatter areas, they should have done that to start...But I agree, by putting 8 where it is, there wasn't much choice with where to put 9. And 9 gives you the postcard view, which Joe Q Public likes.

[William_G]

Could be the best thing about Chambers Bay is the sand base, which makes it playable year round, with no mud. However as Mike Davis pointed out, the need for monitoring how much to water each green is ampilified as the sand is so deep.

This thread could go on for another few years at least, LOL.

[Sean Leary]

Agree he left in in the wrong spot to begin with...

I guess he did, though anytime you play a sand shot on the 71st hole of the U.S. Open to 3 feet of the cup, doesn't seem like a bad shot to me.  

As to Maltbie's statement, he has played the British Open a number of times, hasn't he?  So two questions.  One, does CB play like the British Open courses, and two, how does Maltbie like them?  
[/quote]

I think it plays like a links course, but with way more sideboards and backboards.

[Richard Choi]

Tom, the setup on Wed had everything to do with all of the older players losing. They really watered the course heavily after the stroke play and the course was playing as soft as it did all week. Add to that there were 3 driveable par 4's, which meant the younger big bombers had much easier time on Wed.

I think they made a mistake on Wed...

[Tom Yost]

...
While I'm becoming a bigger fan of CB having watched the Am in person 2x (and played 3x), it does strike me that both #9 and #15 are downhill shots at the same angle (into or across the prevailing wind), and while Richard's suggestion may be impractical, it would address it.
...

Richard's suggestion fixes the wrong hole! Most people I know agree 8 is the weakest hole on the course. If you come up with a reasonable fix for 8, then you can reconsider 9. However, it seems to me that the routing was made the way it was, because the land left open was an example of the flat land left over by mining like the land that they chose to avoid by avoiding the southern portion of the property. So, if they don't build 8 and 9 where they are now, they have to create something from the most boring land on the portion of the property that they used.

Didn't I read that the driving range was going to be re-located to the south part of the property?  If that were the case, would that leave room for a change to #8 and #9 ?   

[Richard Choi]

Yes, they have built a brand new (and larger) driving range just south of the course (now you need a shuttle ride between the range on the course though...). But they also said they were going to keep the old range as is. But I am guessing if push comes to shove, that land can be utilized for something else.

I like the 8th hole. It is one of those holes that grows on you more you play it.

[Jim Franklin]

Can CBay handle the increased fans for an Open compared to an Amateur? That was my concern. The layout is terrific.

[Garland Bayley]

Didn't I read that the driving range was going to be re-located to the south part of the property?  If that were the case, would that leave room for a change to #8 and #9 ?   

If my recollection serves me right, there has long been a plan to put a resort hotel in that area.

[Pete_Pittock]

Link to hotel plans, which will be below the current clubhouse. At article bottom click on 'site plan'.

http://www.piercecountywa.org/cfapps/internet/news.cfm?node_id=98271

[Richard Choi]

Jim, with the dunes specifically designed for crowd and hospitality tents, I suspect you will have 15,000 just at 1st and 18th hole alone. If you built the bleachers on the hills by the east side, you can put another 20,000 to 30,000 just on those hills.