[William_G]

Probably need a new thread on "walkability while carrying vs walkability while pushing vs walkability with caddie"...

FWIW checked out thewalkingolfer.com, and very surprised to see that Trails and CB are both in the yellow category as trails as one tough hike up to 14 tee, 16 is into the wind and uphill and 8 is slightly uphill and other than that its flat... you guys are way to biased especially Richard Choi, you gotta love that

The design of uphill/downhill/uphill/downhill....is the reason #4 for lack of love

FWIW I have run marathons and 10k's all my life and carry my clubs every time I play except when required to drive, even @ Couer d'Alene we hired caddies so we could walk, LOL

Any athletes out there?

[Richard Choi]

William, which Bandon Trails are you talking about? I wouldn't call #1 flat, #3 rises up about as much as #13 at CB, #4 is uphill, at #5 you gotta walk down and then up significantly again. #6 through #9 is all uphill before turning back. And that is all before the trek at the end.

Compare that to CB where #1, #2, #3, #6, #10, #11, #16, #17, and #18 are all pretty flat.

You go hole by hole and you walk up and down far more at BT than at CB.

And this just proves that people knock down CB far more than other courses. Old Mac goes up and down as much as CB and you never hear people complaining...

[Richard Choi]

I think it is interesting how the scores in the afternoon matches yesterday skyrocketd from earlier in the day. Fatigue would be my first guess as to why that is the case.

That would be wrong as the winds were pretty calm and the course was wet from the moisture so they held better. The winds kicked up to 30mph in the afternoon. I would imagine that was not very score friendly.

[Tom Yost]

There is no doubt Chambers is a tougher than average walk. Not so much the green to tee, but the uphill/downhill.  

And by the way, since nobody else mentioned it, there is another thread active during this last week:
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45578.0/

[William_G]

William, which Bandon Trails are you talking about? I wouldn't call #1 flat, #3 rises up about as much as #13 at CB, #4 is uphill, at #5 you gotta walk down and then up significantly again. #6 through #9 is all uphill before turning back. And that is all before the trek at the end.

Compare that to CB where #1, #2, #3, #6, #10, #11, #16, #17, and #18 are all pretty flat.

You go hole by hole and you walk up and down far more at BT than at CB.

And this just proves that people knock down CB far more than other courses. Old Mac goes up and down as much as CB and you never hear people complaining...


Hey Richard I know I'm a newbie here but you must not remember BT very well or what are you smoking?

Do you get paid by CB directly or indirectly?

Just saying, I do love your passion...

[Richard Choi]

William, I was just at Bandon Dunes in June and played CB within 2 weeks after that.  I think my memory is pretty fresh.

I just don't appreciate people making false comments without facts.

[Tom Yost]

I love the course and have had the pleasure to play it twice.  On my first visit, I could feel my heart racing, like a kid on Christmas morning. Granted, I'm not well traveled as many of those on the board, but for me it was certainly a thrill because of the vast scale and the fact it is so very different from the Arizona and Ohio golf that make up most of my golf experiences.

With its northern location and on the western edge of the Pacific time zone, a summer 4PM or later tee off at the twilight rate is easy to get in 18 and the late afternoon light is just delightful.

[Sean Leary]

William, which Bandon Trails are you talking about? I wouldn't call #1 flat, #3 rises up about as much as #13 at CB, #4 is uphill, at #5 you gotta walk down and then up significantly again. #6 through #9 is all uphill before turning back. And that is all before the trek at the end.

Rich,

I think you are not thinking about Bandon Trails here..

[William_G]

Richard your passion has pushed you over the edge as you have called my integrity into question without remorse.

Good luck

[Tim Bert]

On my first visit, I could feel my heart racing

Tom, that was the climb up 4.  

Guys - I love the course.  Can't say enough good things about it.  So I hope no one feels like I'm ripping it.  I'm just calling BS on Garland's overly rosy picture of the ease of walk.

[Richard Choi]

Richard your passion has pushed you over the edge as you have called my integrity into question without remorse.

Good luck

I don't appreciate someone accusing me of getting paid or blindly supporting something.

Good luck to you.

Tim, I agree with you, CB is not an easy walk. But it is doable for anyone who has played Bandon Dunes.

[Sean Leary]

Richard your passion has pushed you over the edge as you have called my integrity into question without remorse.

Good luck

Honestly, I think he has his holes or courses mixed up, as I agree that he isn't making sense with his examples.

[Richard Choi]

Sean, which holes? I am looking at my pictures from June in front of me as I typed it.

[John Moore II]

I have a question about the grass at Chambers Bay. Is it normal for fescue grass to be semi-brown/tan like we see on tv? Do the British Open courses have the same type grass? Is this lack of color (I know the coloration is a function of how the plant grows) the reason that courses with fescue fairways can play more firm and fast than courses with bermuda fairways that I am used to? (I have played exactly 4 courses that did not have bermuda fairways)

[Garland Bayley]

I have a question about the grass at Chambers Bay. Is it normal for fescue grass to be semi-brown/tan like we see on tv?
yes when it hasn't been watered it goes dormant.
 Do the British Open courses have the same type grass?
yes, I believe that is true for the most part
Is this lack of color (I know the coloration is a function of how the plant grows) the reason that courses with fescue fairways can play more firm and fast than courses with bermuda fairways that I am used to?
No, I believe the fast and firm is as much a function of the sandy base as the grass
(I have played exactly 4 courses that did not have bermuda fairways)

I'm not an expert, so I would appreciate it if anyone who knows better would help.

[Garland Bayley]

How can an average of 100 yards between green and tee not be considered a long walk?

Since it is twice normal, I think it is a long walk. Part of the reason it is so long, is because they typically put the back tees closest to the last green. TD has said on here that he prefers to put the regular tees closest to the last green, with the exception of Wicked Pony where he was asked to make a course for low handicappers.

[Michael Dugger]

You can count me as someone who doesn't think the 3rd at Bandon Trails goes uphill.  Pretty doggone flat once you get off the raised tee box on the other side of the entrance rode...

...and to cite the 5th as being downhill than significantly uphill.....well, we are talking about a 100 yard hole here.....

....not a big deal in my book....

This is the thing with the walks between holes at Chambers Bay:  

On some golf courses, upon leaving the green, the main trail to the next tee box runs you into the blues or whites.  Often the scratch player has to meander back to find the tips.

At Chambers, if playing the middle tees (I'd say blue or white but I think they are like sand colored or something) you have to first pass the "tips" and then walk up to your proper markers.

Thinking back to Bandon Trails, for example.  The predominant path on the first tee takes you up to the greens.  However, if you want to play the blacks you must wander backwards to an elevated tee hidden amongst the long hay.

Similar concept when transitioning from 7 to 8, from 9 to 10, and 12 to 13.  When walking down the hill from #14 green, the tips require trekking backwards as the most natural walking path leads you right into the green tees on #15.

At Chambers, you walk past the tips on just about every hole.  Even if you happen to be playing the most forward tees of all, you are getting the full 7700 yards of golf course and the extra 100 yds between some holes.    

[Pete_Pittock]

John,
    A broadcast screen shot listed the grass as dormant fescue. Garland I believe said that was because of the non-watering. Is this agronomically correct or is there an actual season of dormancy?
    Thursday afternoon score were high because of strong winds, at least two clubs worth. #9 was playing against the wind quartering from the left.
     I've played the course twice and had some reservations about how it would hold up scorewise. Happy to have been proved wrong. Its place on my ranking ladder has gone up a lot of rungs. Most of the chosen hole locations have been accessible for the right shot and a lot of players have been adept playing the sideboards and backboards as they were designed.
     Depending on the length chosen for the US Open many the holes pins could be a scosh more difficult, as I doubt the course would be playable with faster putting surfaces.  

[Richard Choi]

At Chambers, you walk past the tips on just about every hole.  Even if you happen to be playing the most forward tees of all, you are getting the full 7700 yards of golf course and the extra 100 yds between some holes.    

Michael, this is not true as well.

You do not walk to the very back tees on holes on #3, #4, #5, #10, #11, #12, #14, #15, and #18 at Chambers. The tees you are talking about are Navy and that is about 7100 yards not 7700 yards.

And again, I think this thread demonstrates pretty well that CB does not get much love here, if all the the discussion about architecture is about the walk between the greens to tees instead of actual shots on the course.

[Tom Johnston]

I think it is interesting how the scores in the afternoon matches yesterday skyrocketd from earlier in the day. Fatigue would be my first guess as to why that is the case.

The winds really picked up as the day went along - combined with elevation changes that seemed to make a big difference.

[RJ_Daley]

I can't for the life of me figure out what the dispute here is.  Is it about a question that somehow the architect isn;t getting enough praise?  Well, we've had numerous discussions since it's opening, including a soft opening outting with the on-site RTJjr associate Jay Blasi conduting the on site tour personally, and many wonderful supportive comments for Jay and the RTJjr team.  The course has gotten plenty of love and sound comment on the progress of the grow-in process.

As for commentarty over its walkability, I've walked Erin Hills twice and CB is easier.  I'd also say it isn't much more difficiult than Sand Hills or BallyNeal or even Whstling Straits for that matter.  This whole line of critique seems to me to be way out of proportion.  

[Tom Johnston]

John,
    A broadcast screen shot listed the grass as dormant fescue. Garland I believe said that was because of the non-watering. Is this agronomically correct or is there an actual season of dormancy?
    Thursday afternoon score were high because of strong winds, at least two clubs worth. #9 was playing against the wind quartering from the left.
     I've played the course twice and had some reservations about how it would hold up scorewise. Happy to have been proved wrong. Its place on my ranking ladder has gone up a lot of rungs. Most of the chosen hole locations have been accessible for the right shot and a lot of players have been adepr at playing the sideboards and backboards as they were designed.
     Depending on the length chosen for the US Open many the holes pins could be a scosh more difficult, as I doubt the course would be playable with faster putting surfaces.   

Pete - I'm not an agronomist, but the USGA stopped watering a few weeks ago at CB and the marshals I spoke to at the course yesterday indicated that was the reason for the dormancy.

It was lots of fun for me and my (golfing) bride to walk the course yesterday and watch the match play competition.  Fun to see how many of the players used the contours as you pointed out.

The wind was a huge factor - particularly on par 3's such as #9 and #15 where both players (#9) we were watching missed the green and then both players in two matches (#15) missed the green.  None of these misses were even close, and the recovery shots were brutal.

I've played CB 3x, and had lots of fun.  My opinion of it has gone up each time, and went up again yesterday.  As someone pointed out, when it was first open, it was a little rough.  My advice for anyone (GCA's included) going out is to carefully choose which tees to play from.

Personal favorite viewing location is above the 10th green (on the right hand side).  Great match play hole.

[Sean Leary]

Rich,

1 is downhill to start , 3 is flat, 5 is 100 yds, 8 is downhill and 9 is flat.

[Garland Bayley]

...
As for commentarty over its walkability, I've walked Erin Hills twice and CB is easier.  I'd also say it isn't much more difficiult than Sand Hills or BallyNeal or even Whstling Straits for that matter.  This whole line of critique seems to me to be way out of proportion.  

I have to wonder if the view of the steep hill behind #13, 4, and 7 tricks people into thinking it is steeper than it is.

[Brent Carlson]

Chambers is a fine course.  Lots of good holes and good exercise.

It does pale for me though in comparison to other "links" style courses I have played.  I have it rated between a 6 and 7.

From most enjoyable on down:

Pacific Dunes
Royal County Down
Ballybunion
Royal Dornoch
HCEG
The Old Course
Portmarnock
Royal Portrush
Lahinch
Bandon Dunes
N Berwick
Sheep Ranch
Rustic Canyon
Lawsonia Links
Rosses Point
Chambers Bay
Portrush Valley
Whistling Straits
The New Course
Golf House Club
Lakewood Gailes

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