[Ben Kodadek]

I've been watching the Am for the last couple of days.  All I can say is wow.  I know there is an additional thread with some discussion about the course, but I can't believe how little attention it is getting from the DG?  Is this another case of designer discrimination? 

Is it simply that no one is watching?  The course is lightning fast and brown as can be.  These kids are not used to anything like this and you can just see their brains being scrambled as the matches progress.  Some of the bounces that the ball is taking are unbelievable.  It's a blast to watch. 

I had a buddy (loves green and lush courses) stop by for a glass of wine last night.  His first comment was "wow, is that ugly, it's brown!"   After watching for about an hour, he was talking about booking a trip our there....he loved it.

[Dan Herrmann]

Ben,
I love the place.  Even the surroundings are cool - everything from the trains to the Sound to the sense of place.  I spent about 4 hours there and didn't even swing a club - I just kinda studied it.

[PCCraig]

Ben:

I've never been to CB, so I can't comment as well as others who have. I was skeptical of the USGA bringing the Am and Open to CB because from what I had seen it didn't look all that great. However after seeing how great the course looks on TV, seeing that the USGA wants to play it as F&F as possible, and watching the top young players figure out the strategy apparent in the design....I'm a fan.

I've been trying to talk the wife into a trip out to Seattle to visit one of her good friends for the last two days

[Richard Choi]

Ben, I've been touting this course since the very first post I made here! I am hoping there will be a few more people on the bandwagon after US Am - there is plenty of room.

There are a few reasons why CB has not gotten the love it probably deserves around here.

1. Conditioning. Many folks here played the course before it opened and soon after it opened. It takes a long time for fescue to take hold. Because of that, there were many bald spots and sand was everywhere. There were visible cat tracks everywhere in the dunes. It was neither firm nor fast and the worst of all, the greens were running at about 4 to 5 feet on the stimpmeter for the first two years. My brother had a pretty typical reaction after playing the course the first year - "they charge how much for this course? These are the WORST greens I have ever seen!!! I am never coming back here again." The quality architecture was there from the beginning, but it was hard to see it beyond poor conditioning for most people.

2. It was "created" and not "discovered". CB is not truly manufactured like Whistling Straits as it was already a gravel and sand mine (most of the greens in the Puget Sound courses were built with the sand from this mine) and they did not have to import or move as much sand as they did at WS. However, most people here love Bandon for the fact that it is a very natural course and they moved minimal amount of dirt to create it. Compared to that, CB feels much different and that probably takes it down a notch or two for many around here.

3. Lackluster par 3’s and par 5’s. The par 4’s at Chambers Bay are as good as you will see anywhere, bar none. However, all of the par 3’s have very similar look (drop shot peninsula greens surrounded by bunkers on three sides) and the same goes for the most of the par 5’s (uphill left to right).

I have long predicted that Chambers Bay will get a big boost in reputation after the US Amateur and after US Open. I still believe that to be true, especially how great this tournament has gone so far.

To have a true links golf course like this near a major metropolitan area is really unique and it is something that should be experienced by any GCA aficionado. Just let me know when you are in town and I will be happy to walk it with any of you.

I really need to finish my CB course profile one of these days…

[Garland Bayley]

It's the best course I have played. I subscribe to the architect not in favor theory. However, if you are not going to favor it because of the architectural firm, you have to realize that the course was really done by Charlton and Blasi. At the GCA event at Sagebrush a couple of weeks ago, Dick Zokol talked extensively about how the course had been Charlton's vision, and how he got RTJ2 to follow through on it. Dick Zokol thinks its a great course to.

[Richard Choi]

Shiv, that is nothing. At The Home Course, I was marshalling at the par 5, #5 hole and practically every player who hit within 100 yards of the green walked the yardage to the green from the ball. Talk about PAINFUL!!! They really need to give these guys lasers and be done with it.

[PCCraig]

Shiv, that is nothing. At The Home Course, I was marshalling at the par 5, #5 hole and practically every player who hit within 100 yards of the green walked the yardage to the green from the ball. Talk about PAINFUL!!! They really need to give these guys lasers and be done with it.

Ouch!!!

[William_G]

Hey Richard I know you are a fanatic about CB, love that...

Love your honesty about how it compares to Bandon.

#4 reason, is the hike you have as you carry your clubs up and down the course as it is the toughest walking course I know of. This is because of the design and site situation.

[Richard Choi]

Hey, Dirksen has carried his own clubs through out the tournament so far! It can't be that bad...

[Garland Bayley]

Hey Richard I know you are a fanatic about CB, love that...

Love your honesty about how it compares to Bandon.

#4 reason, is the hike you have as you carry your clubs up and down the course as it is the toughest walking course I know of. This is because of the design and site situation.

Dick Zokol thinks it is every bit as good as the courses at Bandon. Since I haven't seen the Bandon courses, I can't comment.

I suggest you not join TheWalkingGolfer.com if you think Chambers Bay is a tough walk. Fat old men like me think it is a breeze, except for the walk from 9 tee to 9 green.

[Michael Dugger]

Chambers has received plenty of run around here since opening up.

I disagree about their being an "architect bias," Richard, that's bogus excuse-making.

A good golf course is a good golf course, no matter the location or architect.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Geee I thought CB gets a lot of love on here. Erin Hills does not but CB yes. I think the negative comments have to do with the process government used and costs, but not the design or finished product. I love the place and think more GCA guys have traveled  long distances to see this course than any other than the Bandon Courses. I have been 4 times and only one was for other than golf. LSU opened up there last September. It is a great design. cheers Tiger

[Tim Bert]

Hey Richard I know you are a fanatic about CB, love that...

Love your honesty about how it compares to Bandon.

#4 reason, is the hike you have as you carry your clubs up and down the course as it is the toughest walking course I know of. This is because of the design and site situation.

Dick Zokol thinks it is every bit as good as the courses at Bandon. Since I haven't seen the Bandon courses, I can't comment.

I suggest you not join TheWalkingGolfer.com if you think Chambers Bay is a tough walk. Fat old men like me think it is a breeze, except for the walk from 9 tee to 9 green.

Not to re-hash old wounds, but The Walking Golfer rates Chambers as yellow which I think acknowledges that the walk is not a breeze.  If the walk were a breeze I think the course would be a no-brainer green since it also has the most liberal definition of a walking policy.  

Rob's own review disputes your comment:
"As for walkability, Chambers is rugged and rewarding.  The occasional steep climb, or gradual elevation change, is rewarded with views of the entire course, Puget Sound, and the surrounding islands.  Most people will sleep well after the roughly seven mile walk over the grounds.  It’s well worth it..”

I love the course, Rob loves the course, and you love the course.  The difference is that you continue to try to make the course sound like the easy walk of the century, which it is not.

[William_G]

@ Garland    hahahaha

I will check that out but in the meantime the walk while carrying your clubs at CB is the toughest I know of, no doubt, LOL

[Richard Choi]

Michael, I was not the one who brought up the designers...

[Michael Dugger]

I also disagree regarding the par 3's and par 5's being weak.

#9 is really the only one-shot hole that bugs me, yet it's still cool looking.

#3 plays like a redan, good tough hole
#15 is a drop shot with water as a backdrop
#17 is more along the water

They are a solid collection, one of the strengths of the course, IMHO.

As for the par 5's.  

#4 is fun hole up the hill
I abhor #8.  My thoughts on the routing of 8 & 9 are well documented.  
#13 is a nice hole
and #18 is a good finisher....

Nothing wrong with the par 5's...

[Michael Dugger]

Michael, I was not the one who brought up the designers...

Indeed, I apologize.  I mis-read.

It's Garland who said that.

So, it's you, Garland, who's full of it...lol 

[Garland Bayley]

Michael, I was not the one who brought up the designers...

Indeed, I apologize.  I mis-read.

It's Garland who said that.

So, it's you, Garland, who's full of it...lol 

Sorry,

It wasn't me that brought it up. I just responded. It is just that I have seen criticisms on here that make absolutely no sense to me unless you factor in some kind of discrimination.

[Sean_A]

Hey Richard I know you are a fanatic about CB, love that...

Love your honesty about how it compares to Bandon.

#4 reason, is the hike you have as you carry your clubs up and down the course as it is the toughest walking course I know of. This is because of the design and site situation.

Dick Zokol thinks it is every bit as good as the courses at Bandon. Since I haven't seen the Bandon courses, I can't comment.

I suggest you not join TheWalkingGolfer.com if you think Chambers Bay is a tough walk. Fat old men like me think it is a breeze, except for the walk from 9 tee to 9 green.

Not to re-hash old wounds, but The Walking Golfer rates Chambers as yellow which I think acknowledges that the walk is not a breeze.  If the walk were a breeze I think the course would be a no-brainer green since it also has the most liberal definition of a walking policy.  

Rob's own review disputes your comment:
"As for walkability, Chambers is rugged and rewarding.  The occasional steep climb, or gradual elevation change, is rewarded with views of the entire course, Puget Sound, and the surrounding islands.  Most people will sleep well after the roughly seven mile walk over the grounds.  It’s well worth it..”

I love the course, Rob loves the course, and you love the course.  The difference is that you continue to try to make the course sound like the easy walk of the century, which it is not.

7 miles?  Is that right?  How much time is spent with a bag on the back?

Ciao

[Richard Choi]

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/08/27/1316930/caddies-taking-a-beating-at-chambers.html

[Garland Bayley]

Hey Richard I know you are a fanatic about CB, love that...

Love your honesty about how it compares to Bandon.

#4 reason, is the hike you have as you carry your clubs up and down the course as it is the toughest walking course I know of. This is because of the design and site situation.

Dick Zokol thinks it is every bit as good as the courses at Bandon. Since I haven't seen the Bandon courses, I can't comment.

I suggest you not join TheWalkingGolfer.com if you think Chambers Bay is a tough walk. Fat old men like me think it is a breeze, except for the walk from 9 tee to 9 green.

Not to re-hash old wounds, but The Walking Golfer rates Chambers as yellow which I think acknowledges that the walk is not a breeze.  If the walk were a breeze I think the course would be a no-brainer green since it also has the most liberal definition of a walking policy.  

Rob's own review disputes your comment:
"As for walkability, Chambers is rugged and rewarding.  The occasional steep climb, or gradual elevation change, is rewarded with views of the entire course, Puget Sound, and the surrounding islands.  Most people will sleep well after the roughly seven mile walk over the grounds.  It’s well worth it..”

I love the course, Rob loves the course, and you love the course.  The difference is that you continue to try to make the course sound like the easy walk of the century, which it is not.

Tim,

Which part of occasional don't you understand. 
Seven miles is a very poor estimate. Why I doubt it is a step over 6.9 miles. 
Actually, I have done some measuring green to tee on google earth, and the course is not going to clock in at much more than 5 miles. Of course if you hit it as crooked as Rob, maybe seven miles is accurate. 

Once again, define walking course! As I understand your definition is a course that requires you to walk. OK so there are about 7 of those in the US, so you could be right.
However, when you throw in all the courses that have reasonable green to tee walks, then Chambers Bay doesn't stand out that much.

[Garland Bayley]

Hey Richard I know you are a fanatic about CB, love that...

Love your honesty about how it compares to Bandon.

#4 reason, is the hike you have as you carry your clubs up and down the course as it is the toughest walking course I know of. This is because of the design and site situation.

Dick Zokol thinks it is every bit as good as the courses at Bandon. Since I haven't seen the Bandon courses, I can't comment.

I suggest you not join TheWalkingGolfer.com if you think Chambers Bay is a tough walk. Fat old men like me think it is a breeze, except for the walk from 9 tee to 9 green.

Not to re-hash old wounds, but The Walking Golfer rates Chambers as yellow which I think acknowledges that the walk is not a breeze.  If the walk were a breeze I think the course would be a no-brainer green since it also has the most liberal definition of a walking policy.  

Rob's own review disputes your comment:
"As for walkability, Chambers is rugged and rewarding.  The occasional steep climb, or gradual elevation change, is rewarded with views of the entire course, Puget Sound, and the surrounding islands.  Most people will sleep well after the roughly seven mile walk over the grounds.  It’s well worth it..”

I love the course, Rob loves the course, and you love the course.  The difference is that you continue to try to make the course sound like the easy walk of the century, which it is not.

7 miles?  Is that right?  How much time is spent with a bag on the back?

Ciao

In an earlier discussion, Jeff Brauer (as I remember, one of the NLGs anyway) said 50 yards green to tee is the standard average. I measured CB on google earth and they average 100 yards green to tee for the whites I play. So if I hit it dead straight each time, that's 4.7 miles.
You can't believe every thing you read on thewalkinggolfer.com.

[Tim Bert]

Hey Richard I know you are a fanatic about CB, love that...

Love your honesty about how it compares to Bandon.

#4 reason, is the hike you have as you carry your clubs up and down the course as it is the toughest walking course I know of. This is because of the design and site situation.

Dick Zokol thinks it is every bit as good as the courses at Bandon. Since I haven't seen the Bandon courses, I can't comment.

I suggest you not join TheWalkingGolfer.com if you think Chambers Bay is a tough walk. Fat old men like me think it is a breeze, except for the walk from 9 tee to 9 green.

Not to re-hash old wounds, but The Walking Golfer rates Chambers as yellow which I think acknowledges that the walk is not a breeze.  If the walk were a breeze I think the course would be a no-brainer green since it also has the most liberal definition of a walking policy.  

Rob's own review disputes your comment:
"As for walkability, Chambers is rugged and rewarding.  The occasional steep climb, or gradual elevation change, is rewarded with views of the entire course, Puget Sound, and the surrounding islands.  Most people will sleep well after the roughly seven mile walk over the grounds.  It’s well worth it..”

I love the course, Rob loves the course, and you love the course.  The difference is that you continue to try to make the course sound like the easy walk of the century, which it is not.

Tim,

Which part of occasional don't you understand. 
Seven miles is a very poor estimate. Why I doubt it is a step over 6.9 miles. 
Actually, I have done some measuring green to tee on google earth, and the course is not going to clock in at much more than 5 miles. Of course if you hit it as crooked as Rob, maybe seven miles is accurate. 

Once again, define walking course! As I understand your definition is a course that requires you to walk. OK so there are about 7 of those in the US, so you could be right.
However, when you throw in all the courses that have reasonable green to tee walks, then Chambers Bay doesn't stand out that much.

I am comparing the course to the universe of all golf courses I have ever walked.  I would probably put Chambers in the toughest quartile if I were to rank all courses I've walked in terms of walking difficulty.  Understand that it is all relative.  I don't play a whole lot of extreme mountain golf and on those rare occasions I would opt for a cart.  I have played Banff Springs, which while in the mountains, probably isn't accurately described as a mountain course, and it is an easier walk than Chambers.

Look, I walked it the two times I played it.  I would return and walk it again.  I would do 36 in a day, but I'd be really, really tired.  I wouldn't attempt 54 there.  It isn't an easy walk.  Rob acknowledges this on his site.  It isn't a slight, it is a reality.

Your definition of walkability is extremely skewed from the way that most would measure it.  You have made it clear that you only consider green to tee walks.  By that measure, feel free to live in your alternate reality where Chambers is an easy walk.  The reality is everyone else playing the course has to walk up those hills.  

I am not comparing it to mandatory walking golf courses this time around.  In that small subset, I think Chambers is the toughest walk I've played.  Bandon Trails is probably close.

[Richard Choi]

Bandon Trails is far worse. Especially, when the worst part of the walk come towards the very end of the day. Compare that to Chambers where it is all down hill from #14 on.

[Tim Pitner]

How can an average of 100 yards between green and tee not be considered a long walk?

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