Redan at North Berwick

[Ulrich Mayring]

Hi,

has anyone managed to play this hole by running a shot up the right hand bank that feeds down to the left by the green's tilt? After all, isn't this one of the classic Redan strategies? But having played the original Redan recently, I am at a loss how to pull this shot off. There seems to be very little room for a run-up shot and I don't think there's enough tilt:



Obviously, I dumped my shot in the left bunker. Not so obviously, I made the sand save for par

Ulrich

[Anthony Gray]

  I don't think the ball feeds to the left as much as people want to believe. I pulled a tee shot left over the next teebox and pitched back for an easy par. The play to the right is beter at replica redands than the original.

  Anthony

 

[RSLivingston_III]

Now you have me curious. I have forgotten who wrote the how-to for playing the hole but I think I remember it as being a high draw to the very front right of the green (depending on the pin) and have it run with the slope of the green down to the pin.
Seems it was either Hutchinson or Darwin that wrote about playing the hole... hmmm...  must find the book.

edit;
quote is not in British Golf Links or Golf Courses of the British Isles.

[Bill_McBride]

Ulrich, my wife played there with me in 2005.  She hit a three wood that threaded the needle between Redan bunker and its neighbor to the right.  I hit the high six iron just onto the front right of the green.

When we crested the slope, there were two balls, both about 15' away.  That is the fun of playing the Redan, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

I've been in that bunker too, nice shot!

[Tom_Doak]

I have sat and watched a lot of people play the hole from up near the green to see what happens.  It is mostly women who manage to run it through the swale high right and swing it onto the green, with their low trajectory and no spin shots.  Good men players who try this usually carry it into the bank at the front of the green and the ball stops too quick.  A high fade over the bunker back into the slope will stop pretty quickly except when the wind is blowing hard from tee to green ... But that's the prevailing wind.  As Anthony says, a pull to the back left of the green leaves a flat lie and an easy chip or putt back up the slope, which is a feature no other Redans really have.

[Kris Shreiner]

I've only played the hole once, but spent a great deal of time surveying the green and surrounds afterward. The wind was screaming, damn near three clubs from right to left. I'm not usually that bothered about stiff winds, but that was probably one of the most awkward  tee shots I ever had to prepare for mentally. I blew it over the back rightcenter, and failed to get up and down. Awesome hole, but very unsettling on the tee. I shall return!

[Sean_A]

Hi,

has anyone managed to play this hole by running a shot up the right hand bank that feeds down to the left by the green's tilt? After all, isn't this one of the classic Redan strategies? But having played the original Redan recently, I am at a loss how to pull this shot off. There seems to be very little room for a run-up shot and I don't think there's enough tilt:



Obviously, I dumped my shot in the left bunker. Not so obviously, I made the sand save for par

Ulrich

Ulrich

I have tried it for fun and usually hit the shot too hard on a right line in the bunker(s).  I have seen folks play it properly (even with a putter!), but it isn't a natural shot for many - trying to bounce so far short of the upslope is very awkward.  I prefer to play a fade to near hole high and accept the pitch back if necessary.  It beats the heck out of anything left short.   

Ciao

[M. Shea Sweeney]

I thought the miss left on the Redan at Chicago Golf Club was the place to be.

[Anthony Gray]

  The question I have is why is the hole so popular?Copies are so much better than the original.
  Anthony

[James Boon]

Ulrich,

I have only played the hole once, and I stood there with the intension of playing the classic running draw shot. What I can tell you is that I hit the draw I wanted and then when I walked up to the green and reached the crest of the ridge short of the green I could see my ball just past the back left hole position about 15ft away (had a discussion on this on another thread some time ago, and basically if you pull the shot off you seem to finish 15 ft away  )

The massive, and I mean massive, dissapointment for me was that ridge short, as it obscures your view of the shot doing what we all like to see, landing and then bumping along the ground. I don't know if I just cleared the ridge and got a big kick forward, landed in the middle of the depression short, or carried the green and just nicely rolled down? 

Anthony,

I think its so popular because its the original. I've not played any of the more literal copies by CBM or Raynor, but my guess is they do exactly as the original but you can see your ball land and run?

Cheers,

James

[Sean_A]

  The question I have is why is the hole so popular?Copies are so much better than the original.
  Anthony

Anthony

I have only seen one copy Redan which I thought was in the ballpark of a true Redan - Yeamans Hall.  It is a great hole, but still very different from The Redan because you can see everything.  Like it or not, blindness and being a bit uphill are key components of The Redan.  Unfortunately or not, both of these elements are not what the main stream golfer likes so this may be why there aren't many true Redan copies.   

Ciao 

[Andrew Summerell]

I’ve fed the ball to the left a couple of times, but mostly while having a bit of fun. I don’t think it would be a shot that I would try that often in a match.

  The question I have is why is the hole so popular?Copies are so much better than the original.
  Anthony

I’ve played a few CBM/Raynor Redans & I still prefer North Berwick’s Redan above all the others. I agree with Sean about the Redan at Yeamans Hall (& the others that I’ve played) they are different holes. Many of them (the one at Blue Mound is a good example) don’t have the subtlety that the 15th at NB has that requires quite a few plays to understand.

[Emil Weber]

Ulrich -

I was thinking exactly the thing. The Redan was the only hole that really let me down at NB.

I just can't see how it could be played the way everyone says. Even if you hit low draw or hook (which is a shot I really like to hit), the upslope of the swale just in front of the green makes it not an option, because if it lands in that (steep) upslope, it will get stuck, but if it lands on the green it will run way past the green. IF there was a slope feeding TOWARDS the green, which is like I imagine the Redan at NGLA, the concept would work.

But not at NB. Its still a good hole, and the course is fantastic, but next time I will play the high fade!

[Tom_Doak]

I thought the miss left on the Redan at Chicago Golf Club was the place to be.

Long and left is the only good miss on ANY good Redan, just because of the slope of the green.  But North Berwick's is the only one that gives you a relatively easy putt back up the slope from 10-20 yards off the back.  It is actually the flattest place on the hole other than the tee.

[Ulrich Mayring]

Thanks everyone for the comments, great stuff.

Out of a gut feeling I actually did try long and left, thinking that anything behind the green surely couldn't be worse than being in one of the bunkers. Only I mishit the shot and ended up short and left anyway

Ulrich