DISMAL RIVER GOLF CLUB

[Chris Johnston]

Dismal River is a terrific course in great shape.  The experience is simply outstanding.  Jack was just out and spent a few hours in a late night Q and A at the firepit.  Every hole is epic and not a weak one in the bunch!  Every shot/every club.  The food and lodging are world class.

Attention to detail is a priority.  An example, each of the 2,800 irrigation heads have been calibrated, one by one.  

Hard, Fast, and Green!

Chris - Welcome to the site.  I've read a couple comments that imply that Dismal would be a very difficult walk.  I also read another comment that Dismal would not be that much more difficult to walk than Sand Hills except for the fact that walking paths haven't been cut in many cases.

I'd love to hear your comments on the walkability of Dismal River.  Are there any plans in the near future to create any such walking paths, or is that just not a priority for the existing membership?

Thanks to all for the warm welcome.  Dismal River has significant elevation change and most here choose to ride, or walk with clubs on a cart.  We would be happy to cut paths for walking but few here do.  Like our neighbor, walking is tough on most, especially so as our guests normally play 27-36 holes.

[Chris Johnston]

Eric,

In one of your pictures on the 2nd hole I see some cart tracks in the fairways - was it overly wet when you were there? 

Do you know what grasses were used throughout the course?  Is it similar to what was used at Sand Hills and the Prairie Club?

If you can't answer maybe Chris can.

Thanks,

Scott

Scott

Dismal River has fine fescue tees and fairways and A1A4 bent greens.  The tracks you noticed on the fairway photo are normal for fescue, especially if maintained dry and fast.  Fescue is the perfect grass for the area and purist course, even though it does show tracks, even footprints.  We choose not to over water and maintain the fescue in a lean manner.   

[Mike Bowline]

Eric, like everyone has said, thank you for the pictures and the "New Light" they have shed on DR.

However, one design and/or maintenance practice makes the course look really, really hard: if you miss a fairway off the tee (regardless of how wide it is) it appears you have about 10 feet of rough before you are in the Gunge, probably lost a lost ball. Hole after hole, that appears to be quite penal.

This penal narrowness would become even more penal when the winds blow. Which is about all the time from what I read about SH.

Tell me if I am wrong (you, too, Chris): are the fairways wide enough to allow any strategic play by favoring one side or another of a very wide fairway? Or do you just have to pipe it every time down a penal chute?

[Chris Johnston]

Eric, like everyone has said, thank you for the pictures and the "New Light" they have shed on DR.

However, one design and/or maintenance practice makes the course look really, really hard: if you miss a fairway off the tee (regardless of how wide it is) it appears you have about 10 feet of rough before you are in the Gunge, probably lost a lost ball. Hole after hole, that appears to be quite penal.

This penal narrowness would become even more penal when the winds blow. Which is about all the time from what I read about SH.

Tell me if I am wrong (you, too, Chris): are the fairways wide enough to allow any strategic play by favoring one side or another of a very wide fairway? Or do you just have to pipe it every time down a penal chute?

Mike - Our fairways are quite wide, the primary rough is cut at 1 inch, and secondary rough and up to 60 feet of "native" are cut at 4 inches.  The course is very playable and balls are very easy to find and hit, even well into the native.  Our goal for bunkers and rough is to make them a 1/2 stroke penalty, not lost balls.  I am thrilled this year that the vast majority of players finish with the same ball and the feedback is very positive as to condition and playability.  Remember, we have no water which is the biggest place balls disappear but wind does play a factor at all courses out this way.

You should come see for yourself.

[Kris Shreiner]

Chris,

Welcome to GCA! As a fellow newbie, though longtime lurker, what drew you to golf architecture and the game in general? I was fortunate enough to find golf, as a caddie, when I was twelve.

The recent changes in evidence, judging by the photos, and new energy that your ownership/team seems to be infusing at Dismal River sounds promising. Do you have a caddie program there yet? The fact that many players go twice or play 27 shouldn't discourage every effort to make it walking friendly. From personal experience, having worked as a caddie at many top tracks like Pebble Beach, Merion etc., quite a few players enjoy walking the first round and then taking a four-caddie and riding(where permitted) the second. Though I'm not a big fan, even four players with pullcarts and a quality caddie can cover a course briskly and provide exercise and value for the golfing foursome.

The cart is not the enemy of the caddie or the game. In fact, over the rather expansive ground that often constitutes "Prairie Golf," it is an asset! With the caddie dynamic also in play, golfers get the best of both worlds. They can even take a cart, and walk when they wish...their caddie just drives it ahead and the pace of place is usually superb.

Sounds as though the offerings are multiplying out your way. I'm hoping your fresh approach can lead to sustained success there, as it seems to have many of the ingredients for a quality experience in place. If you take care of the golf Chris, everything else being sound, you'll do well!

Cheers, Kris

[Chris Johnston]

Chris,

Welcome to GCA! As a fellow newbie, though longtime lurker, what drew you to golf architecture and the game in general? I was fortunate enough to find golf, as a caddie, when I was twelve.

The recent changes in evidence, judging by the photos, and new energy that your ownership/team seems to be infusing at Dismal River sounds promising. Do you have a caddie program there yet? The fact that many players go twice or play 27 shouldn't discourage every effort to make it walking friendly. From personal experience, having worked as a caddie at many top tracks like Pebble Beach, Merion etc., quite a few players enjoy walking the first round and then taking a four-caddie and riding(where permitted) the second. Though I'm not a big fan, even four players with pullcarts and a quality caddie can cover a course briskly and provide exercise and value for the golfing foursome.

The cart is not the enemy of the caddie or the game. In fact, over the rather expansive ground that often constitutes "Prairie Golf," it is an asset! With the caddie dynamic also in play, golfers get the best of both worlds. They can even take a cart, and walk when they wish...their caddie just drives it ahead and the pace of place is usually superb.

Sounds as though the offerings are multiplying out your way. I'm hoping your fresh approach can lead to sustained success there, as it seems to have many of the ingredients for a quality experience in place. If you take care of the golf Chris, everything else being sound, you'll do well!

Cheers, Kris

Kris

I love walking or taking a caddie but, with the terrain here, I believe players should be given the choice.  We get a lot of purists and most choose to ride.  Our course is more than a mile from the clubhouse and that may be a reason.

As to architecture, I am a 15 year member of Sand Hills and was formerly Chairman and CEO of Royal Precision, maker of Rifle & ProjecX shafts and Royal Grips.  I've been around golf for a while and have had occasion to play most of the greats.  There really is nothing like golf out here in the Sand Hills, outside of Ireland/Scotland that is.  Dismal has no homes, trees, or water...just pure golf.

[Kris Shreiner]

Chris,

Thanks for your feedback. I'm ALL for choice. One shouldn't be forced to chose, unless there are unusual circumstances or conditions present. If you'll note in my post, I was supporting the buggy as an asset in your type of setting! The opportunity for a facility, to OFFER BOTH options, in combination, would seem to give the members/guests the best options of both worlds.

Most "purists" aren't buggy riders, given the choice. You reference Ireland and Scotland and comparisons to the golf out there in the Sand Hills. I'm married to a Scottiish lass, belong to Royal Dornoch and play over there frequently. It is a walking game in those countries...except where Americanization has infiltrated. Certainly, as I said, the expansive nature of Sand Hills golf dictates buggy use as an option.

Do you have a caddie program for walking purists at Dismal River?

Cheers,
Kris

[Mark Pritchett]

Chris,

Welcome to the board. 

Is the sparse population in the Mullen area a challenge to start and maintain a viable caddie program?

Eric,

Thanks for the pictures.  I would never have guessed they were taken with a telephone.

Mark

[Chris Johnston]

Chris,

Welcome to the board. 

Is the sparse population in the Mullen area a challenge to start and maintain a viable caddie program?

Eric,

Thanks for the pictures.  I would never have guessed they were taken with a telephone.

Mark

Just got off the course.  Wonderful!

Kris - we do have a caddie/foerecaddie program.

Mark  -  The caddie program is easy during the summer, but is not so much after school starts.  We are fortunate in having 45 on-site employee housing units so we do have some full year caddies.

[Kris Shreiner]

Thanks Chris.

Much success to you and the gang out there. Sounds as though with on-campus housing, you should be able to have a failrly solid staff. Typically, what is the window for the golf season there...May through late October? I'm sure you get some decent spells outwith, but is that basically the norm? I know some areas have better microclimates out there than others.

Cheers,
Kris

[Eric Smith]

What a place.

[Tony Weiler]

Great pics, Eric.  You have to put your Sand Hills photos somewhere. 

[Chris Johnston]

Thanks Chris.

Much success to you and the gang out there. Sounds as though with on-campus housing, you should be able to have a failrly solid staff. Typically, what is the window for the golf season there...May through late October? I'm sure you get some decent spells outwith, but is that basically the norm? I know some areas have better microclimates out there than others.

Cheers,
Kris

Kris

The housing allows us to maintain a world class staff, facility, and course..  Our season is late May to early October.  Hot and windy today - shot a grinding 75!

[Kris Shreiner]

Chris,

Good on ya! When you have to fight for a respectable round, in tough conditions, and pull it off, that round (and tipple after if so inclined) always seems a little more satisfying.

Cheers,
Kris

[Mike Bowline]

Eric, like everyone has said, thank you for the pictures and the "New Light" they have shed on DR.

However, one design and/or maintenance practice makes the course look really, really hard: if you miss a fairway off the tee (regardless of how wide it is) it appears you have about 10 feet of rough before you are in the Gunge, probably lost a lost ball. Hole after hole, that appears to be quite penal.

This penal narrowness would become even more penal when the winds blow. Which is about all the time from what I read about SH.

Tell me if I am wrong (you, too, Chris): are the fairways wide enough to allow any strategic play by favoring one side or another of a very wide fairway? Or do you just have to pipe it every time down a penal chute?

Mike - Our fairways are quite wide, the primary rough is cut at 1 inch, and secondary rough and up to 60 feet of "native" are cut at 4 inches.  The course is very playable and balls are very easy to find and hit, even well into the native.  Our goal for bunkers and rough is to make them a 1/2 stroke penalty, not lost balls.  I am thrilled this year that the vast majority of players finish with the same ball and the feedback is very positive as to condition and playability.  Remember, we have no water which is the biggest place balls disappear but wind does play a factor at all courses out this way.

You should come see for yourself.

As a matter of fact, some golf friends and I are makng preliminary plans for a super tour through NE next May/June and we will certainly include DR in our tour. Thank you for the reminder to come see for ourselves.

[Chris Johnston]

Eric, like everyone has said, thank you for the pictures and the "New Light" they have shed on DR.

However, one design and/or maintenance practice makes the course look really, really hard: if you miss a fairway off the tee (regardless of how wide it is) it appears you have about 10 feet of rough before you are in the Gunge, probably lost a lost ball. Hole after hole, that appears to be quite penal.

This penal narrowness would become even more penal when the winds blow. Which is about all the time from what I read about SH.

Tell me if I am wrong (you, too, Chris): are the fairways wide enough to allow any strategic play by favoring one side or another of a very wide fairway? Or do you just have to pipe it every time down a penal chute?

Mike - Our fairways are quite wide, the primary rough is cut at 1 inch, and secondary rough and up to 60 feet of "native" are cut at 4 inches.  The course is very playable and balls are very easy to find and hit, even well into the native.  Our goal for bunkers and rough is to make them a 1/2 stroke penalty, not lost balls.  I am thrilled this year that the vast majority of players finish with the same ball and the feedback is very positive as to condition and playability.  Remember, we have no water which is the biggest place balls disappear but wind does play a factor at all courses out this way.

You should come see for yourself.

As a matter of fact, some golf friends and I are makng preliminary plans for a super tour through NE next May/June and we will certainly include DR in our tour. Thank you for the reminder to come see for ourselves.

MIke

I look forward to seeing you in the Spring! 

[Rob Rigg]

So how long is the walk? And is it possible?

I am always perplexed by references to golf in Ireland and Scotland which are followed by hints that a course was not designed to allow for walking? Options - Cool, Carts Only (especially on a fescue based course) - Boo!

DR looks like it is in a beautiful setting with some very strong holes - I hope that if walking is not a "real" option now the new ownership ensures there are walking paths so the golfer can at least choose his mode of transportation (even if it is only the "crazies").

Sand Hills may not be an "easy" walk but 36+ a day is certainly possible. Ballyneal is even easier with 54+ a day an option.

Great to hear praise for the course after the changes - it had never received much love on the site in the past.

Good luck Chris and team.

[Eric Smith]

Rob:

When I was there I tried to pay close attention to the routing, observing where the direct route from tee to fairway or tee to green would take the walking golfer (pun intended  ) and for sure there are some rugged drop offs where the cart trail would be the preferred way to travel.  Hole 2 for example has a deep ravine in front of the tee and hole 3 has some sand dunes between the tee and green that I climbed on and around once looking for a ball.  Walking in that soft sand does wear on your feet (some comfy TRUE'S might help in this situation ).  But, I do think that the golf course is walkable.  The green to tee walks are not long, save for a bit of an uphill climb from 9 green to 10 tee, but you'll find Hooker's on the way, where you can grab a snack, hit the head then get back out to the tee. I'm thinking 15 green to 16 tee may be longer than the others, but I'm not sure -- hopefully Chris will chime in.  [By the way it is great having you with us on the thread Chris - thanks for your input.]

IMO, no way are you gonna walk up to the black tee at 18. That'd be insanely challenging, especially as you still have to play one of the more difficult holes on the course, where afterwards you'd have to make another climb up to Jack's, where I'd imagine there would be a golf cart waiting to get you back to the clubhouse.

I've tried to find Dismal River on Google Earth, but cannot locate it.  Anyone have an aerial you can put up here, please?  I would like to see if I am remembering the relative closeness of the green to tee walks correctly.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

The view from that back tee on 18 is so sprectacular though...well worth the walk.
What cahnges are planned for #18...I love that hole the way it is.
As mentioned earlier, I am impressed at just how much better the course looks than my visit about 18 months ago.
I look forward to returning and correcting my previous views about the course.
I still think the opening hole is rather weak, too extreme a blindness..perhaps this could be altered with a different tee location?

But I fully agree with Chris 100 %..top notch accomidation and service...that I have always said!

[Eric Smith]

The view from that back tee on 18 is so sprectacular though...well worth the walk.
What cahnges are planned for #18...I love that hole the way it is.
As mentioned earlier, I am impressed at just how much better the course looks than my visit about 18 months ago.
I look forward to returning and correcting my previous views about the course.
I still think the opening hole is rather weak, too extreme a blindness..perhaps this could be altered with a different tee location?

But I fully agree with Chris 100 %..top notch accomidation and service...that I have always said!

MWP:

That opening hole blindness is only on the second shot though and it was a 9 iron to a big ole punchbowl!  It's exhilirating (to me) to start off in this fashion. One of the things I liked most about DR was that opening hole.

[Scott Warren]

Eric:

I've tried to find Dismal River on Google Earth, but cannot locate it.  Anyone have an aerial you can put up here, please?  I would like to see if I am remembering the relative closeness of the green to tee walks correctly.

Go to Google Maps and search 41.852174,-101.269827.

That, I believe, will take you to Dismal River GC.

[Eric Smith]

Eric:

I've tried to find Dismal River on Google Earth, but cannot locate it.  Anyone have an aerial you can put up here, please?  I would like to see if I am remembering the relative closeness of the green to tee walks correctly.

Go to Google Maps and search 41.852174,-101.269827.

That, I believe, will take you to Dismal River GC.

Scott:

As The Wiggles like to say, "Beauty Mate!"

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

But that tee shot is just so awkward looking...you have to banh it down that left side wher it takes the coutour, but you dont know that when you first play the hole...
I agree about the punchbowl green though.
I just felt as though the first few holes were a little weak compared to what is to follow...the back nine I thought was wonderful...that par three 16th is awesome..what a great hole.

[Mac Plumart]

Any chance someone could label the holes on that map?

I've played the course and still can't make heads or tails of it.

[Eric Smith]

Any chance someone could label the holes on that map?

I've played the course and still can't make heads or tails of it.

Here you go, MacArther.