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Joe Bausch

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Oakmont drawing from 1915
« on: August 24, 2010, 10:46:27 AM »
In Ed Oden's thread with "maps and drawings" I had posted a smaller version of this map of Oakmont from the 1919 Brooklyn Daily Eagle.  It appears to have been drawn in January 1915 by some civil engineer that I can't quite read the name exactly.  A J.H. lastname, I think.

I don't want to 'clog up' Ed's maps/drawings dedicated thread, so I am starting this one and to take what Mike wrote here.  Notice how many of the greens are squared off in the 1915 drawing.  Was this the way it was?  I've posted below the figure the current Google aerial (from May 31, 2007) of Oakmont for comparison.

(use the blue slider bar to get to the right side of the figures!)




« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 01:05:06 PM by Joe Bausch »
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The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Jason Topp

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Re: Oakmont drawing from 1915
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2010, 10:49:36 AM »
I really like those square greens.  They sort of set the tone for the course.
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Mark McKeever

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Re: Oakmont drawing from 1915
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2010, 10:55:20 AM »
I think the square greens would look wild.  I think there are 14/18 of them squared off.
Interesting the drawing shows a lot more fairway on the right side of the second hole as well.  Thanks for sharing Joe!

Mark
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George Pazin

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Re: Oakmont drawing from 1915
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2010, 11:26:56 AM »
Perhaps the squared off greens are just simplifications for a diagram, though that is somewhat contradicted by the diagrams for 2 & 17.
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Joe Bausch

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Re: Oakmont drawing from 1915
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2010, 11:34:56 AM »
And what is going on at the green at the par 3 13th?!
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Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Bill_McBride

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Re: Oakmont drawing from 1915
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2010, 12:03:10 PM »
Are there many other courses where the routing hasn't changed since 1915 or earlier?  Looking at the 1915 map and recent aerial side by side is very cool.

What's up with the road across the 12th fairway?
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George Pazin

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Re: Oakmont drawing from 1915
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2010, 12:10:41 PM »
Quote from: Joe Bausch on August 24, 2010, 11:34:56 AM
And what is going on at the green at the par 3 13th?!

Just a little hidden love note from the engineer...

The name looks like Mulholland to me.

But it could be Macdonald. And the second looks kinda Alps-ish.

 ;D
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Joe Bausch

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Re: Oakmont drawing from 1915
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2010, 12:45:46 PM »
I believe the civil engineer is J. Horace McFarland.  He seems to have been a biggie.  President of the American Civic Association around that time.  Might have been from Harrisburg.
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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

CJ Carder

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Re: Oakmont drawing from 1915
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2010, 12:56:05 PM »
I've always wondered, and this presents a perfect time to ask, how did Oakmont deal with the turnpike going through there?  Was it in existence (in some form) when the course was built?  If not, what was it?  The drawing would seem to indicate that something was indeed there, I'm just wondering what it was and how it came into being.  Sorry for my lack of Oakmont historical knowledge.
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Mike Cirba

Re: Oakmont drawing from 1915
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2010, 01:49:13 PM »
CJ,

My understanding is that a rail line already ran though that valley, and the creation of the Turnpike simply paralleled that route, which meant the course didn't have to change any of the routing.

Perhaps others could correct me if my understanding is in error.   Hope that helps.
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Mark McKeever

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Re: Oakmont drawing from 1915
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2010, 02:00:43 PM »
So there has always been a bridge there since the club opened?

Mark
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Jeff Evagues

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Re: Oakmont drawing from 1915
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2010, 02:01:56 PM »
Quote from: MCirba on August 24, 2010, 01:49:13 PM
CJ,

My understanding is that a rail line already ran though that valley, and the creation of the Turnpike simply paralleled that route, which meant the course didn't have to change any of the routing.

Perhaps others could correct me if my understanding is in error.   Hope that helps.

That is correct. You can see the railroad to the right of the turnpike.
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Joe Bausch

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Re: Oakmont drawing from 1915
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2010, 02:08:33 PM »
FYI:  I'm told the earliest map of the course the club has is a vector drawing from 1925.
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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Joe Bausch

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Re: Oakmont drawing from 1915
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2010, 09:09:19 PM »
Church or church-like bunkers appeared to be used in many different places according to the 1915 drawing, no?
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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

TEPaul

Re: Oakmont drawing from 1915
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2010, 10:39:32 PM »
If one thinks about how a drawing of a golf course got into a newspaper (newspapers) in 1915 (no copying facility in those days) it may explain why those greens are square (for instance). The man who drew that course may've just done it for a newspaper or more likely a newspaper syndication. I began wondering about this kind of thing when I saw a drawing from a newspaper of Pine Valley around this time. It was noticeably different in various ways from the contour survey drawings and such done by Crump and Colt. I just assumed it was done by someone for the newspaper or even from the newspaper, not someone from the club or by the club.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 10:41:31 PM by TEPaul »
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Mike Cirba

Re: Oakmont drawing from 1915
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2010, 10:40:43 PM »
Tom,

I think the interesting part of the Oakmont drawing is that not every hole has a square green...some have quite unusually contrasting green shapes by comparison.

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TEPaul

Re: Oakmont drawing from 1915
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2010, 10:50:31 PM »
Mike:

That's probably because those few greens are so obviously different shapes even standing on the ground. Many of the others definitely aren't square and probably never were but for someone standing on them they may sort of seem that way unless one makes a very detailed effort to examine their peripheries, and draw them. Also this (1915) is just a bit too early for aerial photography. I think the earliest aerial I've ever seen was of the first few holes of Pine Valley from 1917 and it was very low.

Today, we tend to forget some of the things they didn't have back then!  ;)

Actually, I'm still searching (researching) for the first PREconstruction topo contour survey map used in golf course architecture and particularly who the first architect may've been who used one to do a routing and design without first seeing the site. A few weeks ago the earliest I was aware of seems to have been Merion East's from 1911 but now it appears Macdonald may've used on at NGLA.
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Mike Cirba

Re: Oakmont drawing from 1915
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2010, 10:54:31 PM »
Tom,

Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to find the one Topo map that really matters, whether it was the first or not....

Or, failing that, to find that HDC Property original subdivision map, which is the yin to the yang and should tell the story by revealing the opposite border.

May the force be with you.

It's miracle time in Philadelphia this week.   There is still enough magic in the moonlight for you to accomplish your quest.
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Jason Topp

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Re: Oakmont drawing from 1915
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2010, 10:59:01 PM »
The funny thing is - I was referring to the aerial. not the drawing.  Many old drawings show the green as square as I recall.  What I find uniique are greens like 9 and 18.
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Bill_McBride

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Re: Oakmont drawing from 1915
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2010, 10:30:33 AM »
It's really amazing how little the two routings have changed.

I think the 1915 drawing wasn't just a newspaper sketch, but a highly accurate as-built survey by a licensed surveyor.

Is the mini-Church Pews at #15 relatively new?  I don't remember such a formal look in the late '80's, early '90's.
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Steve Kline

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Re: Oakmont drawing from 1915
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2010, 10:19:52 AM »
It looks like there used to be more fairway (particularly width). If that was the case, then maybe the course wasn't as penal as it is today. Of course the ball goes a lot straighter today.
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