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Chuck Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Dear Steve Smyers
« on: August 20, 2010, 03:36:07 PM »
Geoff Shackelford's blog featured a new interview with Steve Smyers, in "Greenhouse Management & Production Magazine online."  I looked, and it appeared (I hope!?!) that no one else had started a thread on this subject, and the Steve Smyers interview.

Link:
http://www.gmpromagazine.com/Article.aspx?article_id=107215

Much of what Steve Smyers says is admirable.  I would dearly love a chance to play Old Memorial someday.  Indeed, I'd feel privileged to see much more of his architecture in the years to come.

But some of what he says, is frankly infuriating.  He should be called to task.  To wit:

Quote
Okay, let’s open this can of worms. You’re in the interesting but perhaps unenviable position of being a USGA leader on dealing with equipment technology issues and being responsive to your fellow architects and others who are demanding some kind of restrictions on distance to protect the integrity of old courses. How do you handle that?

When I first got involved, I was so traditional and very enamored of all the great long iron shots I’d seen in major championships over the years. The 1-iron Nicklaus hit at the Masters. Faldo’s shot at Muirfield in ‘92. Watson in ‘82 at Troon hitting a 2-iron on the 72nd hole. When I played, the most exhilarating shots were with long irons into par 4s. Donald Ross said a great course will challenge a great player to hit long irons into two-shot holes. I was concerned we were losing that spirit because of the newer equipment.

But as I got into it, I realized that as an architect, it wasn’t my job to say if that (technology) was good or bad. It was my job to deal with it. It’s like maintenance. When I first got into golf, fairways were mowed at an inch and greens probably rolled about 4 on the Stimpmeter. Compare that to what superintendents do today. It’s not bad or good, it’s just the reality of modern maintenance.

The fact is that as the game has evolved, we gained more understanding of the biomechanics of the body and the physics of things and manufacturers have used that and taken advantage of modern maintenance practices to give players more distance. As a designer, I can’t complain about this, I have to deal with it. Part of my job (on the USGA board) is to help my fellow architects understand how to deal with it too.

Steve Smyers might feel that "as an architect," it is not his "job" to comment on technology.  I'd say it is his "job," insofar as he has one with the USGA, to answer for the lack of regulation and especially the complete lack of innovative solutions to the problems of golf equipment technology.

As for agronomy, that's certainly a subject worth discussing.  Whether greens speeds are too fast and too destructive to turf.  Whether we rely too much on extremely fast greens as a defense of courses.  Yeah, that's certainly a discussion worth having.  It doesn't get technology off the hook, nor reduce it as a problem.

And please.. "biomechanics"?  Are we going to get into the business of how "fitness" is the culprit behind 360-yard drives?  When the 360-yard drivers are those paragons of fitness, Phil Mickelson, JB Homes, Bubba Watson, Carl Petterson and John Daly?  That's a bowling team, not a gymnastics team.

Quote
What about the great courses that become obsolete as championship venues?

Well first, there are a lot of (classic) courses that people are convinced can’t be lengthened. They can. Merion is a perfect example.

Second, it amazes me that people blame everything that’s wrong with the game today on the golf ball and club technology. I don’t’ reject that’s been part of the problem, but there are other things that have changed us more. Number one, simply put, is the lawnmower. Maintenance technology and science has had a vastly bigger impact on the game and on courses than equipment. (PGA Tour player) Brandon Chambliss said not too long ago that old architecture and modern maintenance go together like oil and water. I agree.

Finally, consider that driving distance on all tours worldwide has been stable since 2002. I believe technology from a distance perspective is now absolutely stable. The bigger unknown is a modern-day athlete. I have a 17-year old who’s really good. I see his talent level and think about elite players in the future and I marvel at where they might be 30 years ago. Tiger was the first who really trained…now they all do it.

When a lot of these great old courses were built in the ‘20s, the players had different statures. Even guys like Hogan were only 5’ 7” or so. The equipment then kind of dictated that smaller guys excelled. Our knowledge of the swing, the biomechanics and, of course, maintenance practices were totally different. Blaming all the golf world’s ills on clubs and balls is just silly.

Geoff Shackelford ridiculed Steve Smyers for the "Brandon Chambliss" reference.  It might have easily been a transcritption error from the tape of the interview.  I hope that Steve Smyers knows who Brandel Chamblee is, and that it was a transcriptionist who has never seen the Golf Channel who made the mistake.  That is up to Steve Smyers and the magazine to sort out.

But Steve Smyers doesn't get off so easy.

I am sorry:  I don't buy it.  I do not accept that, "Maintenance technology and science has had a vastly bigger impact on the game and on courses than equipment."  No, sir.

It's hardly consistent with Mr. Smyers' next statement, that distance has remained flat ("stable" was Mr. Smyers' word) since 2002.  Has player fitness flattened?  Has agronomy suddenly flattened?  I can tell you what has flattened; the Pro V1.  Since 2002, the Pro V's formulation has remained pretty much the same.  "Stable."*  The biggest jumps in distance gains have occurred specifically in relation to changes in, and changes in usage of, the Pro V1 and its urehtane-covered siblings.  Period.  Full stop.

So it is not at all "silly" to "blame" many golf course architectural problems and issues on golf equipment technology in general and golf ball technology in particular.  It IS silly, I submit, to "blame" fitness or golf course argonomy.  Which is what Steve Smyers seems all too willing to do.

So my open letter to Steve Smyers; wouldn't you be better off, if you encouraged all architects and superintendents to build and maintain courses that are affordable, easy to maintain and best personify the spirit of the game as you seem to genuinely understand it?  Extremely-fast greens ought not to be used to combat golf ball distance.  Courses should not be water-saoked.  Of course, the firmer and faster that golf courses get, the more that uncontrolled technology-distance becomes a problem.  If you have (as you say) bigger, better-trained athletes playing golf, on firmer and faster golf courses, all of which is putting pressure on "distance," wouldn't the best thing, the easiest thing and the clearest thing to do, would be to roll back the one thnig that is the cheapest, most fungible and least-memorable thing in all of golf; the ball?

*Edited, to note that while there have been many reformulations of the Pro V1 since 2002, those reformulations have not been substantial improvements.  For those who are not cognoscenti of equipment on Tour, you should be aware that the changes in Pro V formulations that we have seen every 12 to 18 months have been all about tradeoffs; more spin, less spin.  Softer feel, harder feel.  Slightly higher flighting, slightly lower flighting.  There are dozens of Tour players, under contract to Titleist, who currently play with past models of the Pro V1; Titleist supplies them with boxes of the "2005 Pro V1x" or the "2007 Pro V1..."  And yeah, since 2002, there haven't been any big breakthroughs in Pro V1 formulation.  So no big changes in Tour driver-distance stats.  (Even though Tour-level courses keep getting more and more tricked up to try to rein in driver distance.)  Is Steve Smyers content to wait and play catch-up when the next technology advance occurs?  And is he in fact citing us to 2002 simply because that's the date of the Joint Statement of Principles on equipment technology?  You know, the one wherein the USGA and the R&A finally agreed that any further technologically-produced distance gains would be unacceptable?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 06:29:28 PM by Chuck Brown »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2010, 03:48:37 PM »
Come on Mr. Smyers, wake up and smell the coffee.

Or, if you don't know what you are talking about, then don't talk.

Ben Hogan did not excel because he was 5' 7" and the equipment fit his needs! Ben Hogan had a lot of trouble with the equipment, and was a late bloomer because he didn't figure it out as quickly a Byron did. Byron Nelson at 6' 1" dominated even with Ben in the field. Perhaps the equipment was better suited to someone 6' 1" if your flimsy excuse for reasoning is used.

Perhaps you should read Pete Dye's interview on this site and learn to only speak about what you know about.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 06:17:16 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2010, 04:34:29 PM »
I seem to recall that Byron Nelson himself said (in his later years) that the lawmower was one of the biggest changes in the game in his lifetime.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2010, 04:47:08 PM »
Quote
Garland Bayley:
Come on Mr. Smyers, wake up and smell the roses.

Or, if you don't know what you are talking about, then don't talk... Perhaps you should read Pete Dye's interview on this site and learn to only speak about what you know about.

Whilever people in this discussion group make comments like this in regard to industry professionals I think many people in the industry will rightly disregard the membership of GCA.com as - and this is an actual term I was told we are referred to by one design company - "a bunch of sad tossers". Another is "GCA.com: Never unsure, often wrong". Hard to argue with that, either.

Frank discussion is one thing. Blind disrespect and insolence is something else altogether.

Incidentally, I am playing my first Smyers course tomorrow, and really looking forward to it.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 04:53:44 PM by Scott Warren »

Chuck Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2010, 04:57:31 PM »
I seem to recall that Byron Nelson himself said (in his later years) that the lawmower was one of the biggest changes in the game in his lifetime.

I think Bobby Jones said it, and I think he said it in the 1960's.  I happen to think that Jones was right; for that time, and in that circumstance.  To be even clearer, I think that Jones said it with respect to the 20th century, and I think that in context, Jones was gently correcting someone who was suggesting that the steel shaft was such a huge change.

Maybe someone who has all of Sid Matthews' books can correct me.

Jim Nugent

Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2010, 05:00:19 PM »

It's hardly consistent with Mr. Smyers' next statement, that distance has remained flat since 2002.  Has player fitness flattened?  Has agronomy suddenly flattened?  I can tell you what has flattened; the Pro V1.  Since 2002, the Pro V's formulation has remained pretty much the same.  The biggest jumps in distance gains have occurred specifically in relation to changes in, and changes in usage of, the Pro V1 and its urehtane-covered siblings.  Period.  Full stop.


You may well be right.  Let me ask a question, though.  Has the PGA tour compensated for the longer ball by tightening up courses more?  

Here's another possibility: could it be a generational thing?  i.e. most stars playing today did not grow up playing ultra-modern equipment.  So while the Pro V and new clubs gave them an instant jump in distance, their swings aren't really built for the new high tech.  They don't maximize length.  They got all they could those first several  years, and that's it.  

The young guys who grew up with this equipment are different.  They have built their swings around the new drivers, the new shafts, the new ball.  And for them, for their swings, fitness seems to matter a wholel ot.  As they come into the fore of pro golf, perhaps we'll see distance stretch out once again.  

In the past I never thought bigger and stronger meant much in golf.  Now I think it might.  The new equipment is the reason.  

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2010, 05:00:23 PM »
Scott,

If Mr. Smyers can back what he says with facts and well reasoned opinions, I think he would do very well here. However, if he wishes to speak off the cuff about things he knows little about, he won't. I would welcome the chance to have frank discussion with him. However, he might find he has to be well reasoned and insightful like some of our other valued posters.

I'm also willing to bet that he speaks about my profession with "disrespect and insolence" too.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2010, 05:05:19 PM »
Garland, I have to say we aren't getting a deluge of fact and reason from you, either. Steve is a golf course architect, a member of Pine Valley (well versed then with playing great architecture) and a very good player in his own right.

Who are you to straight up accuse him of knowing "very little about" this topic? Indulge us with the sort of insight that convinces us that you have the right to speak so dismissively about someone with Smyers' experiences.

I think DG members too often shoot from the hip without backing their claims up with anything substantial.

Chuck Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2010, 05:11:03 PM »

It's hardly consistent with Mr. Smyers' next statement, that distance has remained flat since 2002.  Has player fitness flattened?  Has agronomy suddenly flattened?  I can tell you what has flattened; the Pro V1.  Since 2002, the Pro V's formulation has remained pretty much the same.  The biggest jumps in distance gains have occurred specifically in relation to changes in, and changes in usage of, the Pro V1 and its urehtane-covered siblings.  Period.  Full stop.


You may well be right.  Let me ask a question, though.  Has the PGA tour compensated for the longer ball by tightening up courses more?  

Here's another possibility: could it be a generational thing?  i.e. most stars playing today did not grow up playing ultra-modern equipment.  So while the Pro V and new clubs gave them an instant jump in distance, their swings aren't really built for the new high tech.  They don't maximize length.  They got all they could those first several  years, and that's it.  

The young guys who grew up with this equipment are different.  They have built their swings around the new drivers, the new shafts, the new ball.  And for them, for their swings, fitness seems to matter a wholel ot.  As they come into the fore of pro golf, perhaps we'll see distance stretch out once again.  

In the past I never thought bigger and stronger meant much in golf.  Now I think it might.  The new equipment is the reason.  

I don't claim to know all of the details or to have all of the answers, Jim.  Certainly, a modestly-built guy, like a Rory McIlroy or a Rickie Fowler, doesn't say much about the "big athlete" phenomenon in golf.

Subjectively, I feel there is quite a lot to what you say in terms of the very-long drivers.  Andy Bean was a tremendously long driver when I was young.  And I remember not only his driver (A rare MacGregor pesrimmon "Ben Hogan" model) but also how he hit it, which was with an inhuman amount of spin that produced a rocket-like rising trajectory.  It looked like an optical illusion.  I frankly think Andy was lost for a long time in the early Pro V era, because the high-trajectory low-spin paradigm was a tremendous change for him.

Yes, I think the PGA Tour and the USGA have done everything they possibly can, to paper-over the problem of golf course distance, with longer rough, pinched fairways, faster greens, tucked pins and wherever possible (in stark contrast to "wherever sensible") increased length via pushed-back tees or all-new holes.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 05:13:30 PM by Chuck Brown »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2010, 05:16:22 PM »
Scott,

He used flimsy reasoning to say that equipment of Ben Hogan's era was suited to short players (and shorter hitting players), and (probably inadvertently) implied that Ben hit it short, which Geoff chided him for on his website. I pointed out the fact that while both were active, Byron Nelson dominated Ben in results, and that Byron was 6' 1" thereby showing the flimsy nature of his equipment for short players argument. Notice my criticism was of his lack of knowledge of the player and his era that he was using to support his reasoning. I did not criticize his GCA skills. You can check my facts if you are unsure, and if you find them to be lacking I will readily apologize.

I could care less that he has anything to do with Pine Valley, as I am sure he could care less that I have anything to do with Jawbone Creek.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2010, 05:23:14 PM »
As far as the pros hitting it long discussion is concerned. The most plausible argument I have read is Pat Burke on this website talking about losing his "golf" muscles developed from extensive practice hitting the ball. Therefore, one reason the pros are longer than us is the muscles they develop while doing their job.

That seems to explain why those of very slight build can hit it long as well as those who bulk up.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2010, 05:23:49 PM »
Steve Smyers has likely forgotten more about golf than most of us will ever know:

http://www.usga.org/about_usga/leadership/Steve-Smyers,-USGA-Executive-Committee/

Michael Blake

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2010, 05:37:24 PM »
He's a heckuva player, and a nice guy.

I followed him two years ago at the Crump Cup when he won his flight (senior flight maybe?)  There were probably only 10 people walking with that group.  I was a complete stranger to him but he chit-chatted with me throughout the round.

Is it his job (or any architect's job) to question technology or is it their job to 'deal with it' as Steve says?

"But as I got into it, I realized that as an architect, it wasn’t my job to say if that (technology) was good or bad. It was my job to deal with it. It’s like maintenance. When I first got into golf, fairways were mowed at an inch and greens probably rolled about 4 on the Stimpmeter. Compare that to what superintendents do today. It’s not bad or good, it’s just the reality of modern maintenance."


Chuck Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2010, 05:40:07 PM »
Steve Smyers has likely forgotten more about golf than most of us will ever know:

http://www.usga.org/about_usga/leadership/Steve-Smyers,-USGA-Executive-Committee/

David I agree; Steve Smyers has a dazzling resume.

Now, I'd like Steve Smyers to explain how "Maintenance technology and science has had a vastly bigger impact on the game and on courses than equipment."

Because I think that statement, which is made in the context of what everybody knows to have been a heated debate, is baloney.  And I really don't care how many courses Mr. Smyers has designed, or how many national championships the Florida Gators have won in golf.  Steve Smyers knows and respects Jack Nicklaus.  Steve Smyers knows and respects Ben Crenshaw.  But both Jack and Ben have some very different ideas about golf ball technology and USGA inaction, with some apparently severe disagreements with Steve Smyers.  So this is hardly a fall-down win for Steve Smyers, based on his superior knowledge and experience.  He ought to know better.  I think that on technology, Mr. Smyers isn't meeting the real arguments at all.  I think he's wrong.  He's certainly not explaining himself very well, and this isn't the first time that Steve Smyers has been challenged, on this subject, on this discussion board.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2010, 05:42:52 PM »
Steve Smyers has likely forgotten more about golf than most of us will ever know:

http://www.usga.org/about_usga/leadership/Steve-Smyers,-USGA-Executive-Committee/

"He has served as a consulting member of the USGA's Equipment Standards Committee since 1999. "

Now you are really beginning to scare me.

Maybe he needs to work a little more on the retention, and a little less on the forgetting.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2010, 05:46:44 PM »
Garland,

I hope you can do better than "Nelson was 6'1" tall" given your opening comments in this thread.

Chuck,

All that may be true. All I said to Garland is that when punters on this site are taking it to respected industry professionals, that is much better accomplished with facts and reason than childish abuse. If the likes of Garland approached threads like this with more respect and class, perhaps the likes of Steve Smyers and other might be more inclined to participate.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2010, 06:07:00 PM »
Scott,

If he wants respect, then he needs to get it the old fashioned way, he needs to earn it. If he is as accomplished a person as you are making out, he will understand that. He will also understand that he should be called on the carpet if he performs below par.

I think you have witnessed Jeff Brauer's (for example) understanding of that on this website. Now let's apply the same standard to Mr. Smyers.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Andrew Summerell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2010, 06:16:17 PM »
I think Steve Smyers has a good handle on what he believes, but don’t we all. I don’t agree with everything he says there & some of it seems frivolous, but to assume that he doesn’t encourage architects and superintendents to build and maintain courses that are affordable, easy to maintain and best personify the spirit of the game, as he seems to understand it, is a stretch. I'm sure he is following the path that he believes to be right.

Of all sites, this site demonstrates that people who have similar interests can have wildly different views. There are courses that I have played that I believe to be totally overrated. I can explain with great clarity my reasons & many on here would agree. But many on this site also love those same courses & I’m sure they could explain with great clarity why the course is so good.

As much as I would like to see the ball reduced in length, I’m also aware that this is a complex issue & we need the Steve Smyers of this world to be involved in the global discussion, even if we don’t agree with everything he says.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 06:17:55 PM by Andrew Summerell »

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2010, 06:19:13 PM »
Garland,

If you hope to get Steve participating, with a view to reaching some kind of productive outcome, you might like to work on a more respectful way of engaging him in debate.

And I don't even mean the fact that he is an accomplished contributor in many areas of golf, I am just talking about the basic respect we ought to show to others as a matter of courtesy.

In the meantime, feel free to produce anything of merit, above and beyond "Byron Nelson was six feet tall" that justifies the attack you launched on Steve with your first post in this thread and presents Garland Bayley as a productive contributor to the discussion rather than just some punter from the peanut gallery abusing a golf architect and reinforcing the decision of most in the trade not to participate here.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 06:22:36 PM by Scott Warren »

Chuck Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2010, 06:20:07 PM »
Nobody's mentioned it yet, but are we supposed to recall a 1-iron that Jack Nicklaus hit "At the Masters"?  
Was that the Masters that they played at Pebble Beach in 1972?

Quote
When I first got involved, I was so traditional and very enamored of all the great long iron shots I’d seen in major championships over the years. The 1-iron Nicklaus hit at the Masters.


 ;)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 06:33:20 PM by Chuck Brown »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2010, 06:24:56 PM »
I think Steve Smyers has a good handle on what he believes, but don’t we all. I don’t agree with everything he says there & some of it seems frivolous, but to assume that he doesn’t encourage architects and superintendents to build and maintain courses that are affordable, easy to maintain and best personify the spirit of the game, as he seems to understand it, is a stretch. I'm sure he is following the path that he believes to be right.
...

Does it not seem that he is saying that equipment is not his concern, so he will build to what the equipment is? That in itself is a pretty amazing statement given that Mr. Tepper has pointed out (by his link) that he is a consultant to the people making the rules with respect to equipment. Does it not seem logical that the ever lengthening equipment will lead to ever lengthening and widening golf courses? How then are you working "affordable" into the situation?

"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2010, 06:31:36 PM »
Scott,

Thought you might enjoy this commentary on Mr. Smyers arguments from Geoff's website.

"Lol, Chuck. The poor guy is so inconsistent in his arguments, but you honed in on the really salient one.
Mr. Smyers, if you're ever called to testify to this, I suggest you take the 5th.
08.20.2010 | Unregistered Commenter dbh"
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2010, 06:48:43 PM »
His fact statements seem accurate to me and I am in favor of curtailing the distance the ball travels.   

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2010, 06:49:42 PM »
Well, sitting here in the cheap seats, I think a good argument CAN BE MADE that the lawnmower and continued "progress" with agronomy has been at least as game changing as clubs and balls.  To me it doesn't really matter.  We all have our own perspective on what the most important elements are of architecture, maintenance and playing.  It doesn't make much sense to take a guy to task for his opinion in theses areas because they are all important and have a place in how golf has changed.  From my point of view, I have longed believed that the distance issue has been blown way out proportion to the actual problem at hand because teh real problem lies with decision-making at club level or ownership level because most courses don't need to be lengthened because some flat belly hit a drive 330 yards.  Its a knee jerk reaction in many instances and its that reaction we need to be cautious of at least as much as the actual length issue itself.

I haven't read the interview, but I often skip Shack's stuff when he feels inclined to interject stupid beat the dead horse comments between paragraphs and bits etc.  The guy needs to change his tact once in a while as it gets old seeing it in print over and over again.  He seems concerned with getting  his shots in than he does with conducting a good interview. 

Ciao  
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 07:18:51 PM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dear Steve Smyers
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2010, 07:04:03 PM »
Well, sitting here in the cheap seats, I think a good argument CAN BE MADE that the lawnmower and continued "progress" with agronomy has been at least as game changing as clubs and balls.  To me it doesn't really matter.  We all have our own perspective on what the most important elements are of architecture, maintenance and playing.  It doesn't make much sense to take a guy to task for his opinion in theses areas because they are all important and have a place in how golf has changed.  From my point of view, I have longed believed that the distance issue has been blown way out proportion to the actual problem at hand because teh real problem lies with decision-making at club level or ownership level because most courses don't need to be lengthened because some flat belly hit a drive 330 yards.  Its a knee jerk reaction in many instances and its that reaction we need to be cautious of at least as much as the actual length issue itself.

I haven't read the interview, but I often skip Shack's stuff when he feels inclined to interject stupid beat the dead horse comments between paragraphs and bits etc.  The guy needs to change his tact once in a while as it gets old seeing it in print over and over again. 

Ciao  

Sean,

So you are saying that Augusta National made a big mistake by lengthening the course in response to the ball? All they needed to do was grow older strains of grass longer?

It would seem to me that holding the above stated position that you might be skipping Shack's comments, because you disagree with them. Could you clarify? Shack is clearly against the vastly expanded length of the current ball. But you apparently are not so it would seem his comments bother you on that level.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

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Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
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