Straw Poll: Change the Rule, or Change Architecture?

[Steve Kline]

This is something I've been thinking about for a while.  I think that the rules could be changed to remove bunkers and most of the restrictions in water hazard hazards.  It would make the rules simpler and the game more consistent.  

The only things I would leave in the rules are Rule 26 which covers how a player gets out of a water hazard, Rule 28's prohibition on taking an unplayable in a water hazard (use Rule 26 instead), possibly the prohibition on hitting a provisional for a ball in hazard and possibly change the rules on obstructions and GUR to allow relief in the hazard, but the ball must be dropped in the hazard (see the wording for the local rule on Young Trees).  I have to admit I haven't thought through all the implications of all this, but what I have thought about seems reasonable.

Those of you who want to treat the areas outside the ropes as "waste areas", should think about rules such as 12-1 which allow the player to use a rake to search for a ball buried in a bunker and don't penalize the player if he moves it, but prohibit those kinds of actions through the green.  Rules like that are the reason I want to get rid of bunkers or at least clean up that rule.

Tom, I know you lobbied the USGA to make all sandy areas at Pacific Dunes through the green for the Curtis Cup.  I like that idea.  It doesn't seem right to have half and half.  We had that at the US Mid-Am in 2004 at Sea Island.  We told the players if it was raked it was a bunker, if it wasn't it was through the green.  Again, two players balls could end up inches from each other in the same kind of soil and have very different rights on what each could do.

I agree with this. The rule should be changed. You should be able to ground your club anywhere. When did it come into the rules that you couldn't ground your club in a hazard anyway? Surely that wasn't the case in Old Tom's day was it? Play everything as through the green. Then if the tournament or course wants some bunkers to be raked they can put rakes out.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Steve,
Actually it was in Old Tom's day. The first rule about it was in 1858.

[Steve Kline]

If it's sand it's a hazard.

How would this work at Pinehurst? Everything is sand there. So, you can't ground your club on the cart paths (they're made of sand. What about if you are in the pine trees and there happens to be a bare patch with no pine needles? I guarantee there is sand there so you can't ground your club? But if there are pine needles you can ground your club?

[Brian Phillips]

If you're in sand, or in doubt that you're in sand, don't ground the club.  

Simple.

Amen

[Brent Hutto]

The Rules of Golf concerning bunkers as hazards are as good as they've ever been. Not perfect but good enough.

The only issue here was the organization putting on the show and the entertainers performing in it did not do an adequate job of adapting to the somewhat unusual course. I don't see why the Rules would need to change to keep a bunch of millionaire Tour players from screwing up when performing in a spectacle that involves thousands of spectators trampling all over the property.

The Tour and the Major are golf. But they are not the game of golf, just one tiny part of it. If they want to let the paying customers become part of the action more power to them. But local rules or conditions of competition are the proper way to address those oddball situations.

[Steve Kline]

Steve,
Actually it was in Old Tom's day. The first rule about it was in 1858.

Thanks Jim. I'm really surprised by that.

[Brian Phillips]

This is an honest question:

Why am I allowed to ground my club no matter how deep the rough, but I am not allowed to ground my club in any hazard?

I can move a substantial amount of sand out of the way from behind the ball on my backswing which then would help contact on the ball, I cannot do that in rough (I can try but will not get the same result).

[Matthew Runde]

I imagine if Charles Blair Macdonald were alive, he would ask you:  "If you want it to be a HAZARD, why are you raking it?"

That's precisely what I was thinking.

Also, I agree with those who believe that if it's sand, the club should not be grounded.  This "waste bunker" business is a load of hooey.  Might as well have "green rough" in the fairways, allowing you to mark your ball, pick it up, clean it, sing it a lullaby, etc.

[Jim_Coleman]

    It ain't broken; don't fix it.  After billions of rounds of golf, because one moron grounded his club under extreme stress, the rule stinks?  I don't get it.

[Gary Slatter]

If you're in sand, or in doubt that you're in sand, don't ground the club.  

Simple.

or allow one to ground club in hazard / faux hazard

[Sean Remington (SBR)]

  Do not change the architecture.  Do not change the rule.  How about KNOW the rule.  I was happy to hear DJ take more responsibilty yesterday.  The beauty of the game is that the playing surface and circumstances change nearly everytime you tee it up.  My favorite Bobby Jones quote: "Play the course as you find it and play the ball as it lies".

[Steve Lapper]

Change the architecture. NO course needs 1000 bunkers, sandy pits or zits, waste zones, playpens...well you get the point.

Yes, DJ was wrong and deserved the penalty, but DYe and Kohler's insistence on extraneous rinky-dinky playboxes led to this mess.

[Steve Kline]

I imagine if Charles Blair Macdonald were alive, he would ask you:  "If you want it to be a HAZARD, why are you raking it?"

That's precisely what I was thinking.

Also, I agree with those who believe that if it's sand, the club should not be grounded.  This "waste bunker" business is a load of hooey.  Might as well have "green rough" in the fairways, allowing you to mark your ball, pick it up, clean it, sing it a lullaby, etc.

So you are playing the U.S. Open at Pinehurst. On the 4th hole you drive it right and it ends up on the sand cart path and the lie is complete hard pan (most of the cart paths on #2 are). There are no bunkers in the driving area on the right side of the hole. This is not a hazard. Are you saying I cannot ground my club? There are many other scenarios I can draw like this at Pinehurst that will become only more gray when C&C's work is done. Look at pictures of the Dormie Club and how the bunkers morph into the natural sand scrub of the area (there's a reason they call it the Sandhills). I think it will be quite hard to define bunkers at Pinehurst in 2014.

[Don Hyslop]

As many have already stated, I do not believe there is any reason to change the rule but for Dye to cart
in enough sand to create over 1200 bunkers is overkill to the enth degree in my humble opinion. A more natural rough to me would have been better as well as being more penal.

[David Royer]

Tom,   Having played Ballyneal, Pac Dunes, etc. your point is well taken.  Short of clear delineation (literally paint bunker/waste boundries) it would seem that its an all or nothing proposition.  The pace of play would be horrendous, players and caddies constantly asking for guidance.  I would vote to keep the current rule in place. To many variables out of control, people, rakes, etc.

[Brett_Morrissy]

in grounding your club in a bunker, you are potentially taking an opportunity to test the 'texture' of the sand, you can take a practice swing, testing the sand, and if grounding behind the ball - potentially indent the sand creating a small ledge to access your ball.

in the rough, you can ground your club, but you are not allowed to tamp, push or stand the rough down around your ball to in anyway improve your lie. so, in this situation, it seems the rules are also designed to prevent a golfer from improving his lie without the addition of a penalty, thus keeping in place the "play it as you find it and the ball as it lies"
perfect.

[rboyce]

good golf architecture <> good pro golf event

[Ken Fry]

Tom,

Unlike the other courses you mentioned in your initial post (Chambers Bay, Bandon, Kiawah, etc.) Whistling Straits' bunkers are pretty well defined.  There is no continuation into a massive sand dune.  Since all were manufactured and filled, the boundaries are quite obvious.  There in lies the difference as to how they are defined and handled.

Ken

[Jud_T]

I'm not sure why taking a practice swing in the sand is any different than testing the rough.  As long as you don't improve your lie the only problem is extra sand on the green as Sean mentioned.

[RJ_Daley]

WS is a unique course that has given us 2 very good PGAs and a Senior US Open.  One can criticise the original design and wisdom of the faux links, and overkill of the 1200 bunkers, but now it is built and in the books as a major venue.  I dislike the phrase, but; it is what it is.

That is why there are local rules to adapt to 'it is what it is'.  The local rule is explicit and was fairly posted.  You are on a unique course with unique situations of bunkers everywhere, and so you read the rule and go on.  Everyone got through this except DJ and his caddie.

the PGA staff, marshalls, and crowd control were stupid to let the crowd encroach that far down into the likely area of possible play at that particular point, that they could trample and dirty up that bunker.  If any other local rule might be added, it should be that loose impediments of an obvious man made nature, and not natural fiber, plants, or stones, (but cups, bottle caps, and the like) can be removed from these bunkers because they are too close or within where crowds go.

There are bunkers on this darn course next to the hot dog stands for "Pete's sake".    So, it is what it is, and adapt, and play on.  Local rules are the defining aspect to all of this.  Adapt to the local condition, post them, read them, and play on.

[Chip Gaskins]

the problem with way the PGA's rule of "play everything as a bunker" leads the player to be confused on where exactly they can or can not ground their club.  there have to be places in the rough areas that are very sandy, but not in "formal" bunkers....which leads the player to basically never ground their club in the rough, thus penalizing everyone.

tom- my opinion is leave the architecture alone.  though i don't particularity like the look of WS, the owner and architect should be free to build whatever they want.  the rules should be flexible enough to accommodate.

[JESII]

I've seen it mentioned that if people are walking through it, it shouldn't be a bunker...seemingly implying that he had a bad lie...the lie was great.

One of my coolest memories as a kid was going to the finals of the Crump Cup and seeing 1,000 people follow a match and walk through all that sand. I forget the player, but he was in a giant footprint in the left bunker on #3 to a back left pin and hit it out of there just like it was on a tuft of grass...maybe not feasible for a televised major, but it was real golf imo...

[Dan Herrmann]

Wouldn't it be something if we needed to start marking sand bunkers (hazards) with lines like we do water hazards?

In fact, I seem to remember that WS was set up with "blue dots" on the ground to mark sand bunker boundaries when they were unclear.

[Mark McKeever]

Change the rule. No rake: no hazard.

Agreed.

Mark

[A.G._Crockett]

Change the rule; keep building the courses.  Rakes = hazard, no rake = waste area.