[Mike_Young]

Mike,

As you mentioned there are almost no push ups that are bent around Atlanta.  This is an absolute record year for heat and temps above 90 in our area.  I believe I saw where this year had seen over 680 hours of temps above 90 which is more than double what we have averaged for a decade.  This record summer follows a record winter which saw more hours below freezing than ever recorded.

So you have a combination of record flooding in the fall, record low below freezing temps this winter and a terrible wet, cold spring and now a record June and second hottest July EVER!  Indian Hills is the only bent push ups I know of and 10 of their 27 greens are temps right now.

Many courses that are "USGA" or "close" specs are struggling but that usually means stressed (not dead) and 2-3 temps per 18 holes.  My course has one temp right now and had three more but that was due to a spraying error.  Had that not occured, I think we ould have had no issues at all.

Of course, this has been the summer for bermuda and whoever has it looks pretty smart right now   Of course, bermuda is not a perfect, bullet-proof option and some courses have shade issues that can't be solved (Country Club of the South) is re-grassing with bent as there are so many surrounding trees at so many locations and the trees are on neighboring property that they cannot touch makes bermuda an impossibility.

I had Dr. Elsner come and do light studies for our greens and Pat O'Brien has already been out to see if bermuda is even an option for us.  I am still convinced that in a normal year (and a "normal" or average July for Atlanta is highs of 88-89 and lows of 68-69) bent grass can provide an excellent surface from around Sept. 15 through june 15 and you will have to play "defense" in the summer which should still mean smooth ball roll but slightly slower.  Bermuda has many advantages but if your busy season is fall through spring it is not an obvious choice either way.  Also, many people hate the texture of dormant, painted bermudagrass from late fall through early spring.

Anyway, I think the "push up greens are doing better than USGA greens" statement may be a little misleading   I was up at a mom and pop course in Waleska that has push ups and the two greens I saw (18 and the practice green) certainly were as stressed as anything I've seen around Atlanta.

PS  As you may know, David Stone is re-grassing November 14th and he is hoping the board will consider looking at bermuda!  I think his place would be the perfect application for bermuda but as you know, that place ain't no country club, and there ain't gonna be any voting   Lastly, I wouldn't make any grassing choice based on one very unusual year of weather.  FWIW

Chris,
Sorry if my statement seemed misleading to you....I was not condoning push-ups being a better solution than the USGA green in the south...I was trying to make a point of saying that with this type of heat one still had the same problem with a USGA green that they would have with a much cheaper green....At ACC the original East nine greens are 80 years old and they are less stressed than the north nine greens built to USGA in 1988. 
I do agree with your points but I also think the bermuda improvements will exponentiate over the next few years....I watched our club use trees as the main excuse not to do bermuda...going as far as to say the city would not let them cut trees...which could have easily been overcome....
But I think bermuda is the grass of the future in the South for the overwhelming majority of places....you can constrcut a cheaper green and it will fit many more budgets....
As far as places like CC of the South...I say shut it down....they will never fix the shade problem and the corridors are too narrow so whatever they do...it will keep coming back....How many times have they rebuilt those greens? 
And as for David Stone and Bermuda....that would be a homerun for bermuda....as you know ...now that Chuck has been made an honorary member...am getting up there more...

[JMEvensky]

PS  As you may know, David Stone is re-grassing November 14th and he is hoping the board will consider looking at bermuda!  I think his place would be the perfect application for bermuda but as you know, that place ain't no country club, and there ain't gonna be any voting   Lastly, I wouldn't make any grassing choice based on one very unusual year of weather.  FWIW

Wouldn't 14 November be too late in the year to re-grass with bermuda?

[Sean_A]

SBusch said:

Right now the voices for change are primarily from the "brown is the new green" camp which is really about watering and inputs as opposed to some of the things you pointed out.  So, right now, I don't see anything changing that trend at the top clubs.

IMHO:

The demand for "green" putting surfaces, fairways, tees and rough "in play" will always persist.  However I have noticed an ever growing trend in the periphery and unplayable areas being turned over to Sheep's fescue and other varieties of natural grasses even in the South where it is difficult to grow and maintain.  I think it is more of an effort to achieve "definition" then "go green."  

It was originally sold as "low maintenance" but our course and many others in the Carolinas have found that not be the case.  Summer fescue dormancy caused by excessive heat has accelerated weed pressure and bermudagrass encroachment.  We increased our chemical budget tens of thousands of dollars, treated it with pre-emergent during the off season, handpicked every square of inch of in late Spring and it looked great (http://www.flickr.com/photos/eko_gfl/sets/72157624110924637/show/).  However, once the summer kicked in it has lost its edge and we cannot keep up with the weeds.  Our staff is now busy handwatering greens and mowing "bermudagrass gone wild."  To be fair it is doing well in shady areas and North facing slopes, but direct sunlight and the smallest amount of traffic (areas in play, cart path edges, greens surrounds) really seems to affect its performance.  I am sure it will return to past glory this fall and well into June... and I am also confident it will continuously improve season after season, however, expecting members of a private club to be that patient might be unreasonable.

To get back to the topic the aesthetics of the fescue is dramatic at the right time of year.  However, considering the planting of fescue as an attempt to "go green" is simply not the case based on my experience.

Roger

I always take "brown" comments to mean as lean as is practicable given the climate.  I don't think too many folks are advocating for brown regardless of climate.  Its all relative. 

Ciao

[Ian Larson]

Pushup greens and USGA greens will fail for the reasons that make them successful if that makes any sense. If a club in the south has a cool season grass on it's greens. And the turf on the USGA greens suffered while it was perfectly fine on the pushups.....it's because the USGA were actually draining and stayed drier. With the suffering turf probably just wilt.

There's nothing about growing turf on a USGA that would make it fail in extreme conditions before a pushup. Pushups are always going to retain more moisture and will heat up quicker to higher temps than a USGA and cooking the roots. Pushups are also better pathogen incubators than USGA because of the same reason....wetter and hotter.

So if there's a case where a course has cool season on pushups and USGA's....suffering turf on the USGA's tells me they were just kept dry and wilted. I would suspect there might not be a big difference in the amount of water applied to the pushups and USGA's with the amount of water based off the needs of the pushups. If it were the pushups suffering it could be said that the water needs were based off of the USGA's which means more water and the pushups stayed wet. If there is a distinct difference between turf quality on the same course between pushups and USGA's my guess is the water needs aren't being addressed independently.

[Don_Mahaffey]

Everyone has an opinion and so...
To me the biggest difference between USGA and push ups is in the buffering capacity of each. Like Ian said, what makes them work best is also what makes them fail. Push ups will hold more nutrient and water which makes them a bit more stable, but holding capacity isn't always a good thing and for push ups to really work well the soil has to be good and the surface drainage excellent.
USGA is actually more of a hydroponic type system with little holding capacity but excellent internal drainage. Because USGA greens have less of a buffering capacity they will turn off, or on, quicker then push ups. IMO, USGA greens require very good management as you are basically controlling almost all the inputs as the sand is more of an anchor for the plant then a soil that acts like a bank where the plant can make withdrawals as needed.

The problems start with push ups when you have anything that screws up the system. Extreme weather, poor water quality....when you have to start treating push ups like USGA only with out the needed drainage then trouble could be coming. With USGA you can always control fertility because you’re not holding anything. Get a nutrient flush release due to rising soil temps and flushing rains on a push up when you have heat indexes of 115 and trouble is ahead if you’re growing bent.
I like sand based USGA type construction with bent and push up types if growing Bermuda.

[Chris Cupit]

PS  As you may know, David Stone is re-grassing November 14th and he is hoping the board will consider looking at bermuda!  I think his place would be the perfect application for bermuda but as you know, that place ain't no country club, and there ain't gonna be any voting   Lastly, I wouldn't make any grassing choice based on one very unusual year of weather.  FWIW

Wouldn't 14 November be too late in the year to re-grass with bermuda?

Yes.  They are still planning to re-sod the greens with A-1/A-4 beginning that date.  If they changed their minds and did a bermuda conversion that would take place around mid June.  Sorry for any confusion.

[Chris Cupit]

Mike,

As you mentioned there are almost no push ups that are bent around Atlanta.  This is an absolute record year for heat and temps above 90 in our area.  I believe I saw where this year had seen over 680 hours of temps above 90 which is more than double what we have averaged for a decade.  This record summer follows a record winter which saw more hours below freezing than ever recorded.

So you have a combination of record flooding in the fall, record low below freezing temps this winter and a terrible wet, cold spring and now a record June and second hottest July EVER!  Indian Hills is the only bent push ups I know of and 10 of their 27 greens are temps right now.

Many courses that are "USGA" or "close" specs are struggling but that usually means stressed (not dead) and 2-3 temps per 18 holes.  My course has one temp right now and had three more but that was due to a spraying error.  Had that not occured, I think we ould have had no issues at all.

Of course, this has been the summer for bermuda and whoever has it looks pretty smart right now   Of course, bermuda is not a perfect, bullet-proof option and some courses have shade issues that can't be solved (Country Club of the South) is re-grassing with bent as there are so many surrounding trees at so many locations and the trees are on neighboring property that they cannot touch makes bermuda an impossibility.

I had Dr. Elsner come and do light studies for our greens and Pat O'Brien has already been out to see if bermuda is even an option for us.  I am still convinced that in a normal year (and a "normal" or average July for Atlanta is highs of 88-89 and lows of 68-69) bent grass can provide an excellent surface from around Sept. 15 through june 15 and you will have to play "defense" in the summer which should still mean smooth ball roll but slightly slower.  Bermuda has many advantages but if your busy season is fall through spring it is not an obvious choice either way.  Also, many people hate the texture of dormant, painted bermudagrass from late fall through early spring.

Anyway, I think the "push up greens are doing better than USGA greens" statement may be a little misleading   I was up at a mom and pop course in Waleska that has push ups and the two greens I saw (18 and the practice green) certainly were as stressed as anything I've seen around Atlanta.

PS  As you may know, David Stone is re-grassing November 14th and he is hoping the board will consider looking at bermuda!  I think his place would be the perfect application for bermuda but as you know, that place ain't no country club, and there ain't gonna be any voting   Lastly, I wouldn't make any grassing choice based on one very unusual year of weather.  FWIW

Chris,
Sorry if my statement seemed misleading to you....I was not condoning push-ups being a better solution than the USGA green in the south...I was trying to make a point of saying that with this type of heat one still had the same problem with a USGA green that they would have with a much cheaper green....At ACC the original East nine greens are 80 years old and they are less stressed than the north nine greens built to USGA in 1988. 
I do agree with your points but I also think the bermuda improvements will exponentiate over the next few years....I watched our club use trees as the main excuse not to do bermuda...going as far as to say the city would not let them cut trees...which could have easily been overcome....
But I think bermuda is the grass of the future in the South for the overwhelming majority of places....you can constrcut a cheaper green and it will fit many more budgets....
As far as places like CC of the South...I say shut it down....they will never fix the shade problem and the corridors are too narrow so whatever they do...it will keep coming back....How many times have they rebuilt those greens? 
And as for David Stone and Bermuda....that would be a homerun for bermuda....as you know ...now that Chuck has been made an honorary member...am getting up there more...

Completely agree re: CCo South--as long as they close down and send all their members to me
Maybe Chuck can convince the guys that bermuda would be a great fit!

[Scott Furlong]

I love assumptions aren’t they great?   

[Mike_Young]

Pushup greens and USGA greens will fail for the reasons that make them successful if that makes any sense. If a club in the south has a cool season grass on it's greens. And the turf on the USGA greens suffered while it was perfectly fine on the pushups.....it's because the USGA were actually draining and stayed drier. With the suffering turf probably just wilt.

There's nothing about growing turf on a USGA that would make it fail in extreme conditions before a pushup. Pushups are always going to retain more moisture and will heat up quicker to higher temps than a USGA and cooking the roots. Pushups are also better pathogen incubators than USGA because of the same reason....wetter and hotter.

So if there's a case where a course has cool season on pushups and USGA's....suffering turf on the USGA's tells me they were just kept dry and wilted. I would suspect there might not be a big difference in the amount of water applied to the pushups and USGA's with the amount of water based off the needs of the pushups. If it were the pushups suffering it could be said that the water needs were based off of the USGA's which means more water and the pushups stayed wet. If there is a distinct difference between turf quality on the same course between pushups and USGA's my guess is the water needs aren't being addressed independently.

Ian,
I think what you say is the right on....and often a problem when one has to change from one to the other....

[Todd Bell]

Is wet wilt a disease? And how can a USGA green suffer from wet wilt if it's typically dry? 

Maybe, the USGA green doesn't drain as much as one is lead to believe.

[Ian Larson]

Wet wilt is not a disease it's a physical condition not pathogenical. It's strangulation and drowning of the roots. USGA can absolutely be wet, and as wet as soil greens. If a USGA green has too much thatch, like 2-3-4 inches....it's no longer a USGA green IMO. The percolation rate is shot and Is performing just as a soil green. So I wouldn't say USGA greens are misleading as always being dry. It's the supers that aren't matching fert, water and aeration programs up to keep thatch down to an inch or less. So a USGA is definetely susceptible to staying wet, incubating pathogens and getting wet wilt if the thatch is neglected. Thatch is nothing but a sponge.

[Chris Cupit]

Some interesting data from the USGA re: some actual data of temps around the northern suburbs of Atlanta:

By Patrick O’Brien and Chris Hartwiger, Agronomists, Southeast Region
August 11, 2010

  
The summer of 2010 will be long remembered for its impact on bentgrass putting greens in the Southeast Region.  
This summer produced many historical records for heat in the Southeast Region, and the result has been a nightmare for many bentgrass putting greens. The sad news is that probably another month of high temperatures is still ahead of us before cooler temperatures arrive.

Weather data compiled from the Georgia Automated Environmental Monitoring Network (www.georgiaweather.net) at the Atlanta Athletic Club, near Duluth, GA, reveals information that testifies to the extreme heat in the Southeast Region this summer. Mr. Ken Magnum, Director of Golf Course and Grounds at the Atlanta Athletic Club, passed along this information to our office earlier this week.

From June 8th to August 8th, a total of 645 hours had temperatures above 90 degrees. The average number of hours above 90 degrees over the past 12 years has been about 233. This is an increase of about 275% from the average.  Even after sunset on many days, temperatures remained above 90 degrees and provided no time for the soil to cool down.

Hours 90 Degrees or Higher -Last 60 Days
 
      
8-Jun      8-Aug      Total
 
2010      2010      645
 
2009      2009      139
 
2008      2008      213
 
2007      2007      238
 
2006      2006      571
 
2005      2005      84
 
2004      2004      66
 
2003      2003      8
 
2002      2002      231
 
2001      2001      8
 
2000      2000      248
 
1999      1999      347
 

This extended heat wave created an almost impossible situation at most golf courses, making it very difficult for superintendents to manage their bentgrass putting greens.  Additionally, many golf courses were faced with operational budget cuts again this year.  Fighting the heat with fewer fungicides, equipment, and labor at these courses further added to the challenge.  

Last week, the Carolinas GCSA conducted a special 48-hour survey of superintendents managing bentgrass and found the following:

•A full 84 percent say their greens are “thinning” or “severely stressed” right now
•Nearly 30 percent have had to close greens or expect to do so soon because of heat stress
•Less than a third of superintendents say they are “optimistic” about nursing their greens through the end of summer
•95 percent describe this summer as “the worst” or “one of the worst” they have ever seen for managing bentgrass.
 

If your golf course has bentgrass putting greens that have declined, you are not alone. Superintendents are poised to do everything possible to restore the health of their bentgrass putting greens when temperatures cool down again this fall.

If we can help in any way to assist you with these plans, or help with future planning, please call our office.

Source: Patrick O'Brien 770-229-8125 or patobrien@usga.org  and Chris Hartwiger 205-444-5079 or chartwiger@usga.org.  

[Roger Wolfe]

Here is some specific data for the "20 days of horror" in the Carolinas
beginning on June 10th we compiled earlier this summer.  I also included
2009 data and historical data.

The first 7 days lit them up...
the middle 6 suffocated them...
the last 6 finished them off...

[Gary Slatter]

Joe, I think that we will continue to push the envelope even farther and this "progress" is not always a bad thing.  Hopefully, turf grass research will continue and help discover and develop more drought tolerant, shade tolerant, disease and pest tolerant grasses.  This will allow the best supers with the budget and manpower to continue to push the envelope.  They may not be able to mow any lower, but they may be able to lean out the greens for longer periods of time with the development of "super grasses".

Equipment may advance to allow consistent, scalp proof mowing at very low heights and with mower widths that will save time and labor expense.  I already see tee boxes and green complexes walk mowed at what were green heights years ago.  Drainage advancements that will allow fairways to shed water faster and allow carts back on the turf sooner will benefit many people.

Would golf grow at a faster rate if the grass wasn't cut so short?
I watch players attempt to hit off grass at the heights you reference and consistently fail-wouldn't a bit more grass and grass height make the game more enjoyable for players absolutely unable to strike a golf ball off such short/tight turf?
Courses seem to be maintained for the top 1% of players-seems they ought to be the ones adapting-not the 99%

I agree that for 99% of golfers hitting off soft short bent fairways is very difficult.   Short firm fescue fairways is much easier. 

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