Oh My Lord, if this "grounding club in waste bunker" happens...

[Mike Hendren]

When you play on a Mickey Mouse course, you should not be surprised at getting a Mickey Mouse result.

Richard, I'm compelled to ask you the same question I asked V. Klemtz:  Have you played Whistling Straits?

Notwithstanding the horrid 18th hole it is a very good golf course. 

Mike

[Steve Kline]

Two majors at WS. Both times a player has missed the playoff by one shot because of the stupid bunkers and local rules. Dj yesterday and Appleby in 2004 when he was penalized 4 shots.

Based on the rules set for the tourney DJ should have been penalized but the crowd control was terrible, the official was nowhere to be found as he was doing crowd control, etc. A major screw up by a lot of people.

Why did the ruling take so long. It was obvious it was a bunker and he grounded his club. Was DJ saying he didn't ground his club?

[Brad Klein]

What's interesting among many other things is how Jim Nantz clearly said -- after DJ hit the tee shot -- that DJ was in one of the 1,000 bunkers that are scattered all over the place. But no one on the CBS crew said a word about it afterwards.

And David Feherty did the easy, populist thing by standing in the bunker afterwards and making like no one could tell it was a bunker.

Then Nantz makes it clear that the announcing team had been involved with the PGA of America in production meetings Wednesday at which this very issue was discussed. So CBS blew this one big time, as did DJ and his caddie.

It was ugly all around.

[rboyce]

The PGA rules guy was on the Golf Channel last night saying that they made the rule about sandy areas being bunkers because that was the easiest way to do it. In other words, it would have been a challenge to enforce the rule correctly so they just created a new rule for convenience. Hmm, this guy is falling all over himself imo.

The area where DJ played from does not look like a bunker to me. At best, Dustin is hitting off a blown out edge of a former bunker that is no longer being maintained in any way. But, from the pictures, it's not at all clear that it was ever a bunker.

[PCCraig]

It's an ugly situation because Dustin Johnson blew his chance to win the PGA, after it being his to loose on the 18th tee. However, if the rule was made perfectly clear all week that all sandy areas are to be played as bunkers then it's the player's job to at least ASK an official if what his ball is sitting is is a bunker or worn down rough.

Sure the bunker had been beat up all week with spectators walking all over it, but I could tell on TV that it was a bunker at one point clear as day.

Again, not a good way to end the tournament, but the rules are the rules.

[Sean Remington (SBR)]

  I feel bad for DJ but before he hit the shot I was shouting at the TV, "ask for a ruling".  It is the players responsibility to know the rules of golf, the local rules and determine the situaiton he is in.  If there is even a dought he needs to be clear before continuing.  It is a shame but DJ or his caddy should have slowed things down there.  I was shocked at how quickly he played the stroke, I think he was caught up in the moment.   I predict that DJ will go on to win majors. This is just part of his leaning curve.

[Dan Herrmann]

Actually, DJ was again graceful in his time of angst.  Pretty darn classy, but the boy has got to learn how to slow down and think on the course. 

And maybe read the conditions of the competition!

[Jeff Tang]

I don't see how anyone can blame the course or the architect as being the problem here.  Like them or not the course has a lot of bunkers and everyone knew that going in.  The PGA recognized this and came up with conditions of play for dealing with the bunkers, and this was done before the competition began.  It was not an oversight, and once the rules are made clearly they need to be consistently applied throughout the week.  It's harsh, but the right ruling was made.

I agree with others that have said that a better job could have been done by the marshalls and giving DJ more room to play, this could have changed the end result.

Do I feel bad that the situation ended up like it did?  Of course, but I feel that the situation was contemplated beforehand and it's the player's responsibility to understand the rules, including the local rules for the week.  I don't know how any competitor can go into any tournament and especially a major and not take the time to read the local rules.  I'm rooting for DJ because of how he handled everything afterward and how he bounced back from his US Open final round.  Seems like a good dude, it's too bad.

[Jim Sweeney]

The rules of golf define a bunker as an area, often a hollow, where material has been removed and replaced by sand or the like.

WS is built on clay. Every area where there is sand was hollowed out of the clay and the sand was intentionally placed there.

To rephrase what I wrote before, had the PGA done anything other than keep all those areas bunkers, in other words tried to label some as bunkers and some as "through the green," officiating and playing the championship with any semblance of consistency would have been nearly impossible. Noone should interpret the PGA officials statement that they made the decision they did because it was the easy thing to do as meaning it was the easy way out. It was the easiest way to consistently enforce the rules, which is the correct attitude.

If you are not experienced at being interviewed on TV, don't judge anyone in that position by a literal interpretation of what they said. Being interviewed is tough; one almost always comes away wishing he had stated something differently, and is flayed open to be picked apart in forums such as this one.

[Lester George]

In the graphic showing the players postions after they hit thier tee shots, it was clear to me that they showed DJ in a bunker.  It had a defined shape and was displayed as a graphic generated from an aerial.  I got the strangest feeling that once Feherty announced that there was no way to tell he was in a bunker, CBS started "buying in" to this logic.  THEY NEVER SHOWED THAT GRAPHIC AGAIN, and they never showed an aerial of the golf course showing the location of that bunker without the masses standing there.  It just felt as if the announce crew was trying to rationalize the situation and ignore the stated rule for the competition.  All the while, spectators are listening to this accounting by CBS on their headsets and "buying in" to the logic.  Really bizzare.  Did you notice the booing in the background audio as a result of the ruling?  I think that was directly related to CBS commentary.

BTW, I think DJ knew exactly waht he did and I think he carried on too long with the officials by not stating that he grounded his club.  I got the feeling he was quibbling with them until they reminded him of the rules of the competition.  I hope I am wrong because I want him to be successful, but it sure appeared that he was not willing to take responsibility for his actions.

Lester

[Jason Connor]

Given DJ was clearly oblivious to what was unfolding, I wonder how many other similar indiscretions were made during the week that went completely unnoticed?

I asked a friend that, too.  I agree that it comes down to DJ making a poor decision -- but a contrived, ugly Mickey Mouse course led us to the situation.

I wonder how many competitors thought this morning, "Hmm. In the fog on Friday I think I might have been in a bunker off the 4th fairway.  And I moved a loose impediment.  I better call & DQ myself."

[Phil McDade]

Lester:

I think it's a stretch to suggest the booing at WS was tied to CBS' commentary; I'm guessing word spread pretty quickly in the crowd that Johnson was going to be penalized, and folks wanted to see him in a playoff with Bubba and Kaymer. I know communication is nearly instantaneous these days, but I just think it's unlikely folks were listening or watching CBS and then booing a decision based on what a few CBS commentators said; I think they were booing the outcome (the fact that Johnson is an American, and a fun guy to watch, as well, probably had a bit to do with it).

Nantz to his credit said the TV folks were told about this local rule at pre-coverage meetings with rules officials. Feherty, I'm guessing sympathetic to the plight of a player, having been one himself, looked like he was reporting what he saw on the ground, with some typical ad-lib Feherty commentary sprinkled in.

[Anthony Butler]

   The second he grounded his club I thought it was a penalty.  I always assume sand is hazard unless it's a road.  This wasn't a "local rule;" "waste bunkers" are a local rule.  And no such rule was in effect.  Grounding a club in sand feels wrong.  And on WS, they couldn't talk enough about the 1,200 bunkers.  Chances are, are you're in sand, you're probably in one.  I feel bad for Johnson, and he seems like a really good guy, but he may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer.

I agree, the whole point of this situation is to make everyone sitting on their couch at home feel intellectually superior to Dustin Johnson. All the so called moral arbiters, rules experts and Monday morning quarterbacks have neatly encapsulated why a moron like Sarah Palin has a political future in this country.

[George Pazin]

Can someone explain what the downside would have been to declaring that a waste area? Honest question, not casting aspersions...

[Ken Fry]

V. Kmetz, have you played Whistling Straits?

Mike

Bogey, you beat me to it.  I'm guessing by his silence your question has been answered.

Anyone that's been on that property knows one thing for certain:  you can't deem some of the bunkers hazards and others as waste areas.  It just won't work.  Argue the merits of having so many bunkers if you wish, but Mark Wilson and the PGA made the right call as unfortunate as it was.

Ken

[Michael Huber]

In the graphic showing the players postions after they hit thier tee shots, it was clear to me that they showed DJ in a bunker.  It had a defined shape and was displayed as a graphic generated from an aerial.  I got the strangest feeling that once Feherty announced that there was no way to tell he was in a bunker, CBS started "buying in" to this logic.  THEY NEVER SHOWED THAT GRAPHIC AGAIN, and they never showed an aerial of the golf course showing the location of that bunker without the masses standing there.  It just felt as if the announce crew was trying to rationalize the situation and ignore the stated rule for the competition.  All the while, spectators are listening to this accounting by CBS on their headsets and "buying in" to the logic.  Really bizzare.  Did you notice the booing in the background audio as a result of the ruling?  I think that was directly related to CBS commentary.

BTW, I think DJ knew exactly waht he did and I think he carried on too long with the officials by not stating that he grounded his club.  I got the feeling he was quibbling with them until they reminded him of the rules of the competition.  I hope I am wrong because I want him to be successful, but it sure appeared that he was not willing to take responsibility for his actions.

Lester

I remember seeing that same graphic and thinking "gee, that graphic is wierd because that sure does not look like a bunker."

[C. Squier]

I agree, the whole point of this situation is to make everyone sitting on their couch at home feel intellectually superior to Dustin Johnson. All the so called moral arbiters, rules experts and Monday morning quarterbacks have neatly encapsulated why a moron like Sarah Palin has a political future in this country.

Are you serious?  The first thing I thought of was "shoot, he's in a bunker, that'll be a tough shot" when his drive landed.  The lip looks to be at least 2 feet higher than ball by the way the spectator is sitting on it.  I didn't know "worn walking paths" had 2 foot high edges to them.  Not to mention, where were the other "worn walking paths" on the course that blew up clouds of sand when hit out of?  Oh right, there weren't any....

It's one thing to feel bad for DJ (I certainly do, tough year for the guy), but the excuses are unfathomable.  It's clear as day it's a bunker easily found anywhere on WS.  Way to fit a political dig into the conversation too, it's certainly topical.

[JESII]

Can someone explain what the downside would have been to declaring that a waste area? Honest question, not casting aspersions...

George,

Just a guess from a guy that's never run a golf tournament...I would say there are probably a large number of bunkers that look like this one so if we call them "waste areas", why not the ones that look just a tiny bit more formal than this one? And then where does it stop. It seems like the right thing to do is all or none...to me...

[David Egan]

V. Kmetz, have you played Whistling Straits?

Mike

Bogey, you beat me to it.  I'm guessing by his silence your question has been answered.

Anyone that's been on that property knows one thing for certain:  you can't deem some of the bunkers hazards and others as waste areas.  It just won't work.  Argue the merits of having so many bunkers if you wish, but Mark Wilson and the PGA made the right call as unfortunate as it was.

Ken

Since the PGA decided to put rakes in some bunkers and not in others, I think they should have declared the bunkers with rakes a hazard and all others through the green.  Then they could add the markings (blue dots I think) around the hazards so there was no doubt.  They already went through the trouble of deciding which bunkers to maintain and which to leave alone so I don't think that ruling in this way would be difficult or confusing for the players.

[Phil McDade]

Can someone explain what the downside would have been to declaring that a waste area? Honest question, not casting aspersions...

George:

See my current thread on Kiawah.

Having been to WS, the course presents a real challenge (and some will never stop criticizing the course because of this) for this particular situation because it is literally littered with bunkers --some of which don't really look like bunkers, but sandy areas intermingled with fescue. And they are big. They are all over the place, and it's pretty much impossible -- with tens of thousands of specators -- to keep folks away or out of them, in the way a tournament can easily keep folks out of greenside bunkers. It's just a guess on my part, but an educated one (having been there with a bunch of other golf fans at the '04 PGA), but the folks standing around Johnson's ball probably thought it wasn't a bunker, but a sandy/waste area.

The official line, offered by the head rules official, was that it would be impracticable to "rope off" all legitimate bunkers playing as hazards vs. bunkers considered sandy/waste areas, and thus not hazards -- he said in an interview with B. Chamblee on the Golf Channel that doing so would mean running rope lines through the middle of some bunkers.

I don't have a really good solution -- one thought was to rule that anything within, say, 25 yards of the green is a bunker and thus a hazard, and anything beyond that -- including obvious fairway bunkers -- are sandy/waste areas and not hazards. I'm not sure that's a better solution that the "all hazards" local ruling played for this championship.

[David Egan]

I agree, the whole point of this situation is to make everyone sitting on their couch at home feel intellectually superior to Dustin Johnson. All the so called moral arbiters, rules experts and Monday morning quarterbacks have neatly encapsulated why a moron like Sarah Palin has a political future in this country.

Are you serious?  The first thing I thought of was "shoot, he's in a bunker, that'll be a tough shot" when his drive landed.  The lip looks to be at least 2 feet higher than ball by the way the spectator is sitting on it.  I didn't know "worn walking paths" had 2 foot high edges to them.  Not to mention, where were the other "worn walking paths" on the course that blew up clouds of sand when hit out of?  Oh right, there weren't any....

It's one thing to feel bad for DJ (I certainly do, tough year for the guy), but the excuses are unfathomable.  It's clear as day it's a bunker easily found anywhere on WS.  Way to fit a political dig into the conversation too, it's certainly topical.

I agree, it looked pretty clearly like a bunker to me. And, the talk that there was no lip was crazy since there was a lip about 2 feet from his ball. It seemed like Feherty felt really badly for DJ and was dreaming up any excuse he could for the guy.

[George Pazin]

I agree, it looked pretty clearly like a bunker to me. And, the talk that there was no lip was crazy since there was a lip about 2 feet from his ball. It seemed like Feherty felt really badly for DJ and was dreaming up any excuse he could for the guy.

And that waste area that Cink's was cleaning up at Harbor Town sure looked like a bunker, too. Therein lies the rub...

Phil, Jim, I can see the impracticality of calling them waste areas, I'm more curious about the rules implications. Thanks for your thoughts.

[Ken Fry]

Since the PGA decided to put rakes in some bunkers and not in others, I think they should have declared the bunkers with rakes a hazard and all others through the green.  Then they could add the markings (blue dots I think) around the hazards so there was no doubt.  They already went through the trouble of deciding which bunkers to maintain and which to leave alone so I don't think that ruling in this way would be difficult or confusing for the players.

David,

They maintained the bunkers that were "in play"  (greenside and fairway bunkers).  For example, the large fields of bunkers between the fairway and the lake on holes like 8 and 13 weren't raked and had no spectators anywhere near them.  They were bunkers.  If you hit it that far off line, so be it.  There were also bunkers in spectator areas but were so far off line as to not be considered an issue.  Dustin's tee ball on 18 was WAY right.  From the edge of the fairway to those bunkers is about 50-60 yards.  On that course, it's all or nothing in deeming all that sand hazard or not.  There wasn't a problem for all the other players except the last player hitting the last shot on the last hole.

And for all those people questioning where the rules official was??  He was exactly where he was suppose to be.  Away from the players until he was needed.  It's not the rules official's job to watch every little move the players make.  That's the player's job.

Ken

[Mike Hendren]

Waste area / smaste area.  Do the best players in the world really gain a huge advantage by grounding their club?
I've played many courses where the marshall reminds you that you're permitted to do so.  I never do any way.  Then again, you know my nickname.

Mike

[Tom Birkert]

BTW, I think DJ knew exactly waht he did and I think he carried on too long with the officials by not stating that he grounded his club.  I got the feeling he was quibbling with them until they reminded him of the rules of the competition.  I hope I am wrong because I want him to be successful, but it sure appeared that he was not willing to take responsibility for his actions.

Lester

I agree with this. On the UK coverage it appeared like he was contesting whether he grounded the club, until another replay was shown which clearly showed him grounding it well before he played the shot.

With a course with so many bunkers, and the multitude of volunteers present, would it not be possible to have a volunteer at every bunker to confirm that these scrubby grounds are indeed bunkers?

I also think he realised he'd done something wrong when he asked for the shadow to be moved once he'd grounded the club. He acted in a very strange way, like he thought he'd come a cropper.

A real shame for it to finish like that.

The question does have to be asked, why have so many bunkers though?