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Brett_Morrissy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« on: August 10, 2010, 07:04:34 AM »
Firstly, I want to thank all those that are part of the Great Golf Club Atlas discussion group, for all the advice, assistance and tips, and special thanks to Kevin Pallier, I sent him tons of emails with questions in relation to his amazing 2009 trip and he was very patient with me and is guidance was much appreciated, to Mike & Sus for their kind hospitality and lastly to Jim Colten for inviting and making myself and my 3 buddies from Australia most welcome at the Inaugural "YUCCA", and some Matchplay at the awesome Ballyneal Golf & Hunt Club with 28 other GCA guys...

My trip began with an offer from a friend that has recently moved to the USA, “if I could get us onto Sand Hills would you come over” – after a very brief discussion with my beautiful and understanding wife, I said yes – so the adventure and the planning began, and we were able to convince two others (one to celebrate his 40th birthday)to join us for 8 days of great golf(we all have a big 5 days at Barnbougle with 12 others each Feb).

 KP’s trip was truly inspirational and provided a catalyst to motivate me to try to see and study as many courses as possible, and within the course selection to experience as much as possible of the Golden Age guys work mixed in the “new” Golden Age works. I was able to add a further 5 days by myself on top of the 8 days with the boys. I had originally wanted to include the East Coast and some of the big guns over there, but it requires so much planning and organising and letter writing, that I would not have been able to do them justice time wise, even if I had of been able to arrange to visit.

3-4 months out, I began a bit of a training regime to get as fit as possible, lose a few kilo’s (carrying your clubs and walking 36 everyday has got to be easier with less weight right?), and spent 100’s of hours online researching, emailing, writing letters, sending faxes, booking flights, arranging transfers, booking hire cars, all in preparation so as to make this the best golf trip ever. (I had been to GB&I in 2005) We all ordered commemorative custom Old Mackenzie Walker golf bags – and they got delivered to us at Ballyneal and the Pres hand delivered mine to me in Bandon. They are highly recommended, in fact outstanding. Has actually changed one of our groups life in regard to golf - he will never look at golf the same again now that he has his OMW.

“The Confidential Guide” and the “Doak Scale” were part of the planning. Didn’t think it was worth travelling all that way for a Doak 5 (although unfortunately there was some late night discussion about that at BN which has been covered on another thread); Darius Oliver’s “Planet Golf  USA” book was also of great assistance.

The Courses in order of play, “Doak scale” and (rounds in brackets):

- San Francisco Golf Club “Gourmet’s Choice - 9” (18);
- Ballyneal (54);
- Sand Hills “Gourmet’s Choice -9?” (72);
(Travel day – to get from SH to Bandon);
- Pacific Dunes(36);
- Bandon Dunes(36);
- DAY: Old Macdonald(36) –EVENING: Bandon Trails(9);
- Bandon Trails (18);
- Pasatiempo “Doak 7” (18);
- AM: Pebble Beach “Doak 9” (18) & PM: Cypress Point Club “Bo Derek: a perfect 10”(walked 18);
- Spyglass Hill “Doak 7” (18);
- Riviera Country Club “Gourmet’s Choice - 9” (18).
369 golf holes in 13 days with one day travel only in the middle.

To deal with the way my brain works when it comes to remembering golf holes (not great), I took photos of every golf hole with wide angle, and then zoomed in for another shot, and tried to keep in sequence – I confused myself when I got to 3&4 at Pac Dunes, with shots of 13.... I rated each hole from 0-3 stars and then a heart shape for “fun” or “love it” factor and a tick for strong or great strategic hole. I also carried a pocket sketch book where I attempted as best I could to draw the routings, and make comments about the holes and course, and I also used a separate rating to assess each course using my own subjective and IMO thoughts. I rated each of these six categories out of a possible 5 points: Design & Layout; Condition; Variety & Test of Golf; Overall and/ or Intended Experience; My Personal Experience; Fun Factor;  - possible 30 pts.

I am planning to do only a brief photo essay of the courses with a few favourite holes or what I thought were best holes, and not a full hole by hole photo thread as it seems most of the courses have already been done on here, particularly recently KP’s and Matt’s – but if anyone wants to see them – just ask and I will post – although it may take a while with over 1400 pictures. Have posted some social pics from the Yucca on a separate thread. The other thing I wanted to do that I thought may be interesting and unique to my experience only in relation to the set of courses I played was to do my favourite 18 holes, my favourite holes 1 thru 18, i.e. best 1st hole etc – although this is proving extremely challenging and of course list my favourite courses as I see them and IMO only.
I will do separate course by course over the next week or so, but here is a quick summary of my experience.

FROM THE FIRST day, Melb-Hong Kong- San Francisco - after 26 hours travelling, and arriving into SFO at 11pm, the next morning , to be standing on the tee at 7.30am with a fantastic host at SFGC was unexpected and I cannot think of a better way to begin my trip. This opening round rated 5/5 on my personal experience, I did not know a lot about SFGC except that it was a intensely private club, a Tillinghast design and I had read about the Duel Hole; I was blown away by the routing, the greens and bunkering and eagerly anticipated the downhill 7th and it did not disappoint, as did the Par 5’s. I left SFGC that morning feeling extremely lucky and fortunate to have had the opportunity to experience such a wonderful golf oasis in the middle of this big city. How could my trip possibly continue or improve on this?

Well, of course it did with the next two courses in Ballyneal and Sand Hills, much travelling to get to these out of the way courses, and well worth it. Ballyneal was a magnificent sight, the seemlingly endless rumbling dunes and hills, and golf holes as far as you can see, fabulous accommodation and staff and great company – thanks for a great event Jim. Surprising was the altitude and it’s affect on our golf balls – never did I believe I could hit a ball so far, my mate and partner for the Yucca- Oby, a big hitter when it gets on the fairway, had 9 iron into the glorious par 5 8th hole – a drive well over the central bunker line, alas he 5 putted for a double!

A normally 3 hour journey to the famed Sand Hills, with an inaccurate print out from Google maps and  Golf Ops at Ballyneal, had us drive straight past the entrance (our information said it was a right hand turn – of course it is left!) – we continued on thru the town of Mullen, and I believe we got 38 miles past Mullen, before deciding to turn around, we had clocked almost the 3.5 hrs and knew we had missed it, the empty fuel light came on our rented Surburban, which had us selecting neutral down the hills in a intense effort to save fuel, as we had only passed one car and the light was fading fast.... we don’t think we had 5 miles to spare when we eventually arrived back in Mullen and a gas station with a friendly local providing us accurate directions BACK to Sand Hills – Gene, unfortunately, as you may now realise, we did not have time to squeeze in that extra 9-18 holes! Slightly disappointed and embarrassed with getting lost, but finally ecstatic to be at Sand Hills, with it’s incredibly welcoming staff, it easily lived up to it’s lofty standards. The first day we played off the Black square tee blocks, the intermediary, and felt a little underwhelmed – but – on moving to the Black Diamonds the next morning – WOW – a superior golf course we had found, much better visuals and sight lines, and fell in love a ‘second’ glance! And when the breeze picked up in the afternoon, we mixed up the tees as we wished. Here again, my Personal experience rating was off the charts, and incredible place and easily a 5/5 and the best I’d seen.

A full day’s travel required and departure around 5am to drive 6 hours from Sand Hills (we dropped a visit to the new Prairie Club to allow more time at BN & SH – a wise choice in hindsight) to DIA, with a quick detour back to Ballyneal to pick up 3 Old Mackenzie Walker golf bags for the boys, say G’day again to the great staff, bumped into Rupert Neal and Jim for a quick chat and grabbed a quick breakfast and back on the road. Flights from Denver International to SFO and then the 23 seater Prop from SFO to North Bend. Shuttle transfer from there to Bandon Dunes got us there around 6pm. Todd & Thom were waiting there with my OMW, a great meal in the pub, and it was off to the luxurious accommodation and early morning tee time at Pac Dunes.

Pacific Dunes we wanted to play first, in case we had a chance for a further round later in our stay and wanted to repeat it. The first 18 holes was marred by a poor caddy experience, and the wild and wonderful Pac Dunes showed herself in the afternoon, albeit with a 4 club breeze. Next day was the excellent Bandon Dunes, a great variation and different challenge to PD, with 16 just an incredible hole. Saturday finally got me to the course I was most eager for, Old Macdonald, with such a build up and high expectations - I was fearful of a let down – a 4 club breeze built up to one extra in the afternoon, extremely tough conditions to experience golf and a place like this, but I was surprised to discover I had just played the best course I had ever seen. To think that even in a five club breeze and atrocious golf, that I still could rate this as the best I had ever played was stunning. Never have I been offered such choice from a tee, from the fairway ...and the greens, well suffice to say, I could spend another 50 rounds there and still be discovering new ways to the pin. Mike, Tom, Jim & George and their teams have created a true masterpiece IMO. It is only going to improve with a couple of years of rough and the surrounding detail to grow in.

One of my major disappointments on this trip, was to stand on the Ocean hole green, gazing across to the Sheep Ranch, knowing I would not get to play it – a dream, that will remain, in the meantime I hope to get one of Mike D’s shirts. We were able to squeeze in a few holes at Bandon Trails that evening and a respite from the wind was most welcome. Holes 1 thru 5 in the late evening light were truly beautiful. The next day we needed to allow time for flights, so we could only afford time for 18 holes at BT – another incredible golf course, and interestingly, I found I preferred most of the odd numbered holes, particularly on the B9, with #2 just great.

After I had checked my luggage and boarding pass in hand, as I watched my 3 buddies go thru the gate, I was kicked off the UA flight from North Bend to SFO, along with 2 other guys as they needed to reduce weight because of the windy conditions, I missed two really important things that evening and an early morning tee time at Pasatiempo because UA believed that they can kick off those without connecting flights. I eventually got to Pasatiempo the next day around lunchtime, and experienced a great Mackenzie layout, and then continued on to Monterey and Carmel.

Next morning I went to CPC , I had written numerous correspondence and was treated kindly and with respect and was fortunate to arrange a visit in the afternoon, I then dropped in to Pebble, as I did not have a pre-arranged tee time, and I was able to tee off mid morning. I was surprised to hear one of my playing partners, and very well travelled golfer, explain to me that this was his best rated and most favourite golf course in the whole world, I found it soft and underwhelming, and at US$495 would never return for a 2nd 18.

In complete contrast to my round at Pebble, I walked Cypress Point in the late afternoon, by myself, not another soul to be seen after the first tee where the was a two ball teeing off 14, without doubt this is the greatest golf course I have ever seen, and do not see how any other course in the world could better it. The routing flows as if it was meant to be, smile jumps to your face on majority of tees and fairways, over uneven lies and undulations, one heads into the forest away from the coast and usually downwind, then turn into and over the huge white sand dunes and back toward the sea and the breeze, another quick 180 turn down breeze, before the incredible 8 hole finish, back toward the ocean and the wind, the 13th hole stuck me to the middle of the fairway, as never before have I been compelled to sketch a green and bunker complex such as this, the crescendo continues to build the entire way, as you can actually feel that there is something special in store toward the finale, to walk onto the most beautiful P3 I have seen – the 15th tee near sunset, waves crashing, birds and seals, and then there is 16 off in the distance, completely astounding, you really do feel at one with nature, a very spiritual experience, although I still managed to run out of batteries in both cameras, fortunately I had my sketch book, to continue to take notes. Late in the day, the pathways thru the Cypress trees took on a ghostly appearance for me, and finally to the biggest surprise of all, the 18th, often derided here, with light fading fast, I was struck by the awesome minefield of giant Cypress that you are asked to thread, just one more completely different challenge thrown at you, just as you thought you could be tested no more,- as I weaved thru these giant Cypress, I was almost expecting them to nod or move, and was immediately reminded of the Easter Island statues, when you join the four large trees on 18 with the copse on the 17th these magnificent trees stand like sentinels guarding this treasured place, defiant to the elements and they show a resilience to the test of time, as the club, course and it’s Architect have done. This is now forever my benchmark and the Holy Grail.

I stop into the Monterey Airport bar and restaurant for an evening meal – without doubt the best airport bar I have seen, of the 14 people at the bar eating meals and drinking – 8 were locals, they come ever week – do yourself a favour and check it out. I am back onto another plane and down to my final destination of LA, meet up with Oby again, and head out to the wonderful George Thomas design of Riviera, and a fabulous host and also another great member to make up our fourball. I was continually amazed at how well these great old course designs stand up to modern day golf, incredibly challenging, interesting and loads of fun.

Departing LA, via SFO, Tokyo, Sydney and landing in Melbourne was a pretty pleasant 31 hours! Plenty of time to contemplate a great golf trip to the USA.

(sorry about the length of the post :-[)
@theflatsticker

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2010, 07:19:53 AM »
Great post, thanks! Are you willing to give all of those courses scores on your 5-point scale?

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2010, 07:23:39 AM »
Brett - that was a fantastic post. People joke that this is the best internet dating site but it is also the best site for living vicariously through someone else.

Colin Macqueen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2010, 07:50:37 AM »
Brett,
That was a wonderful posting. You must have kept a diary/journal as you travelled and then written your about your adventure from that? I thought that Cypress Point was so exclusive that you could not gain entry so how did you manage to arrange that walk through. I had to be content with peering through a fence at one end like some sort of vagabond. I felt quite the urchin!

Good stuff,

Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2010, 08:35:14 AM »
Brett

I was very happy to offer advice where I could and are glad to hear that your trip was such a success. I look forward to seeing all your pics and thoughts re: same.

Am interested to hear that you were a little underwhelmed with PB  :P but obviously CPC made up for it  ;D

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2010, 08:39:13 AM »
Brett - fantastic, fantastic, fantastic!  What a great trip you had.

I've lived in the USA my whole life and have never gotten remotely close to that type of quality and fun on a trip.  Well done!

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2010, 08:40:34 AM »
Brett:

Great post, truly an epic trip.  Wondering how the courses you played match up with those in Australia.  Does Barnbougle play like BN or PD?  Will Lost Farms subplant OM on the top of your list?  

"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2010, 09:03:37 AM »
Brett:

Thanks for your post.  I'm honored that you would mix in several of my courses with SFGC, Sand Hills, Pasatiempo, Pebble Beach, and Cypress Point, and it's nice to hear that they held up their heads with such strong competition.  I suspect that was one of the main reasons (along with the money) why you were disappointed at Pebble Beach, but I'm glad you didn't have the same reaction on any of mine!

Since not many people have played Barnbougle, Ballyneal, Pacific Dunes and Old Macdonald -- possibly four of my top 5, or at least 6 or 7 -- I would be curious what order you'd put them in, just to see where Barnbougle falls.  But, if Old Macdonald was REALLY the course you were most looking forward to, in that lineup, you're probably either a sycophant or just outright crazy, so I will take your ratings with a grain of salt.  ;)

Tony Weiler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2010, 09:34:48 AM »
Well done, Brett!  Never too long when discussing great golf courses.  Looking forward to some pics. 

Scott Szabo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2010, 09:54:44 AM »
Brett,

You said you had to meet back up with Oby before heading to Riviera - does that mean that he sidestepped Cypress Point in favor of Las Vegas?   :o

Had a great time meeting all of you at Ballyneal and hope you enjoyed your time in the States.

Scott

"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Mike Demetriou

Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2010, 10:06:45 AM »
Brett, what a terrific read. Playing in Jim's Yucca was the highlight of my golfing this year, but sharing drinks and stories with you four was the highlight of that trip.  I remember discussing your itinerary with you guys, but somehow, until I read this post, I didn't realize how magical a trip this must have been. Wow.  Please, share more if time permits. And yes, we'd love to see the corresponding photos and sketches. Particularly love the story about the 18th at CP.

Question though: Are you still married, or has your wife left you?

Brett_Morrissy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2010, 10:16:01 AM »
Phewww, I was worried that my long essay may not be taken in the way it was intended, of course there was no need to doubt the good people of GCA, truly lovers of this great thing, golf. ;D
Great post, thanks! Are you willing to give all of those courses scores on your 5-point scale?
Yes Carl - I will give my scores, as I went played each hole I also gave a score to each hole, will discuss that also, along with my Fave 18's. gee it is really, really tough to put these together.
Really trying to avoid turning it into a ratings fest though, but it was the best way for me to remember the holes, and now looking back thru the pics, I am able to just do a bit of double checking to make sure I have the correct holes...

Brett - that was a fantastic post. People joke that this is the best internet dating site but it is also the best site for living vicariously through someone else.
Thanks Steve - agree this is an amazing place, that is why I feel compelled to be sitting here to the wee hours of the morning writing this up - I love it. :)
Brett,
That was a wonderful posting. You must have kept a diary/journal as you travelled and then written your about your adventure from that? I thought that Cypress Point was so exclusive that you could not gain entry so how did you manage to arrange that walk through. I had to be content with peering through a fence at one end like some sort of vagabond. I felt quite the urchin!

Good stuff,

Colin
Colin, thanks, I kept a small sketch pad, which I used in airport lounges in between checking emails and keeping in contact with family, along with numerous score cards from each course, which I duly scribbled all over, I have sometimes done that in the past, and KP reminded me again also how important that is to recall along with shooting pics in sequence, I really got my self mixed up, when I walked off Pac Dunes 3rd green to 4th tee, I must have taken some pics of 13, really threw me as to how you could have two par 4's going in opposite directions straight after each other - impossible, and no recollection, but i was trusting my photos in sequence! wrong. ::)
@theflatsticker

Brett_Morrissy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2010, 10:19:04 AM »
Brett, what a terrific read. Playing in Jim's Yucca was the highlight of my golfing this year, but sharing drinks and stories with you four was the highlight of that trip.  I remember discussing your itinerary with you guys, but somehow, until I read this post, I didn't realize how magical a trip this must have been. Wow.  Please, share more if time permits. And yes, we'd love to see the corresponding photos and sketches. Particularly love the story about the 18th at CP.

Question though: Are you still married, or has your wife left you?
Ahh, yes Mike, you were also a highlight - where do I get one of those Sheep Ranch shirts?
My beautiful, lovely understanding wife, just went to bed, I said I have to get this stuff posted, it is important - she sighed, there will ALWAYS be something important about golf with you...
@theflatsticker

Brett_Morrissy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2010, 10:22:56 AM »
Brett

I was very happy to offer advice where I could and are glad to hear that your trip was such a success. I look forward to seeing all your pics and thoughts re: same.

Am interested to hear that you were a little underwhelmed with PB  :P but obviously CPC made up for it  ;D
Looking forward to a beer at the Boomerang KP!

It may take me a while to get all the pics up - any suggestions on editing and culling the amount - I am thinking when I do each course, particularly the courses that are well documented here, that I will just put up the holes or pics that I think are interesting, or that others will find interesting. Or to assist in making a point.

Pebble - will save that for another thread...
@theflatsticker

Brett_Morrissy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2010, 10:33:24 AM »
Brett,

You said you had to meet back up with Oby before heading to Riviera - does that mean that he sidestepped Cypress Point in favor of Las Vegas?   :o

Had a great time meeting all of you at Ballyneal and hope you enjoyed your time in the States.

Scott


Scott, hard to believe I know, but he was on a trip to celebrate his 40th, had never been to the US before, whereas I have been numerous times, and also twice to Vegas, so no interest in going back there again - I was here for the golf only.

We both took 3 days in separate directions, I went to Monterey and he Vegas.

Cypress was still not confirmed by any means, so he decided the bright lights and big city was the call - and he had a great time there.
Brett - fantastic, fantastic, fantastic!  What a great trip you had.

I've lived in the USA my whole life and have never gotten remotely close to that type of quality and fun on a trip.  Well done!
Thanks Dan, if I were you I would start a bucket list of courses you want to see, play or experience, sometimes you need mates to do these things with, sometimes not, certainly understanding people at home, and a big credit card, the costs for playing gollf in America are very high. You could knock off a few great courses in coming to AUstralia - the direct flight form LA is really not that bad. ;D

Apart from the 2 certainties in life (death and taxes), there is plenty of time, this idea began with a much larger group of guys at Barnbougle Dunes in 2005, pledging to get to Bandon Dunes in 2010. Like many good things in life, a lot of planning and a bit of luck is all that is required...
@theflatsticker

Terry Lavin

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Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2010, 10:40:27 AM »
This thread is yet another reminder of the special fraternity that Ran has put together with this discussion group.  Thanks for the post Brett, you made my day.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Brett_Morrissy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2010, 10:46:21 AM »
Brett:

Great post, truly an epic trip.  Wondering how the courses you played match up with those in Australia.  Does Barnbougle play like BN or PD?  Will Lost Farms subplant OM on the top of your list? 


THanks Sven, the golf courses are of extremely high quality, and when I do the lists thread, I will do a couple of my favorite Aus courses to give a bit of a measuring stick.
BUT, I absolutely love Barnbougle Dunes - it is my favourite course to play in Australia, we often use the qualifier, if you could have any course as your home course to play everyday, which would you choose - for me that is Barnbougle, I get to see quite a bit of each year. So to knock her off is a big deal in my eyes.
I have so much fun around the greens at Barnbougle, it is a another tough to beat that creative game around there - will leave for the thread.
Lost Farm looks amazing, walked earlier this year, the only reason I can see it beating Barnbougle IMO (and it would only be by one hole in a hole by hole match) would be because of the extra depth off the frontal dune - allowing for more variety in the golf holes, particularly with the wind such a factor.

I might need a few different lists as Old Mac is such a different course and place to what Lost Farm will be - and bang for your buck down here is a distinct advantage.
@theflatsticker

Brett_Morrissy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2010, 10:55:10 AM »
Brett,
That was a wonderful posting. You must have kept a diary/journal as you travelled and then written your about your adventure from that? I thought that Cypress Point was so exclusive that you could not gain entry so how did you manage to arrange that walk through. I had to be content with peering through a fence at one end like some sort of vagabond. I felt quite the urchin!

Good stuff,

Colin
Sorry Colin, missed the CPC bit!
I spent 6 months speaking to many people, I wrote loads of letters and didn't give up, I so badly wanted to experience Cypress....well, lets say I am glad I got there. Getting there occupied the majority of my waking hours, along with the all the other great courses.
As many of the greats in the States, they are very exclusive, but I am sure persistence and an honest and truthful approach reaps rewards in the end - if I were going back, I would start contacting clubs at least 12 months in advance.

The funny thing is, I am now glad I did not play (although I would if I ever got the opportunity again), my golf game would have 'got in the way' of my understanding of the course, much, much better walking. absolutely no distractions.
@theflatsticker

Brett_Morrissy

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Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2010, 11:35:34 AM »
Brett:

Thanks for your post.  I'm honored that you would mix in several of my courses with SFGC, Sand Hills, Pasatiempo, Pebble Beach, and Cypress Point, and it's nice to hear that they held up their heads with such strong competition.  I suspect that was one of the main reasons (along with the money) why you were disappointed at Pebble Beach, but I'm glad you didn't have the same reaction on any of mine!

Since not many people have played Barnbougle, Ballyneal, Pacific Dunes and Old Macdonald -- possibly four of my top 5, or at least 6 or 7 -- I would be curious what order you'd put them in, just to see where Barnbougle falls.  But, if Old Macdonald was REALLY the course you were most looking forward to, in that lineup, you're probably either a sycophant or just outright crazy, so I will take your ratings with a grain of salt.  ;)

Tom: my absolute pleasure, and not to be too cheesy, but I would say the same thing to C&C with the chance, I feel really fortunate to get the chance to see these amazing courses that you along with some other great architects and some incredible land owners, have given us all the opportunity to play. I am also happy to 'throw' your courses into the mix with the great ones over here in Australia also. it is easy to do, they are great, and they also present themselves to me in a unique fashion, as does C&C courses, a great natural feeling of a harmonious blend of the old and the new, too few seem to want to or have the capability to learn from the previous.

I am curious as to your other 3 that make the top 7, I can add Kidnappers and St Andrews Beach to the 4 you listed above. I am certainly not a sycophant, although I had to double check the dictionary (!)(and not sure what I would have to gain by that), but am a big fan of your designs,  I knew a fair bit about PD  - read the Bandon book, etc as well as from here on GCA, if the same person designed Barnbougle, had the land that was described, then it is clear the level of quality golf that would be on offer, Ballyneal, I knew a lot less about, and mostly through here, and was a last minute inclusion with Jim's event, as logistics worked along with a recommendation from Darius Oliver. BUT, Old Mac, was or is a different beast, the land not as raved about, less coastal holes, a collaboration (but not like Sebonack), and nod to a golden era, wide, wide fairways, a mixture of hazard styles, blow outs, revet, etc,  - not so regimented, more free (?), strategic values high on the agenda - I was very keen to see how a course like that combined this with a Scottish feel.

One of my mates had played Pac Dunes a few years ago and was on this trip, and has been raving about it for years, we discussed this all the way, I felt I needed to keep reminding him - do not underestimate Old Mac... I was seriously blown away by it - actually that can be taken literally as well - as the fan was on a high 4-5 club breeze for most of the 36 holes. I was just delighted to have so many options to play each hole, it drove me mad trying to create new shots I haven't practiced enough, rewarding a thoughtful approach, and a owner/architect with the balls and deep pockets to build and maintain greens like that. I scored poorly, and had a 'tough day at the office' - and to still come away feeling as I did was amazing. I was fortunate to get down to Barnbougle quite a bit in the early days, and it had this similar feeling to my first view of OM, like it was all just right, how things should be... I didn't get that perfect feeling at PD or BN - loved them a lot - but not the same.

I have my little system that I used, so I can compare courses and hole, I will throw Barnbougle into the mix when I put them up. thanks for the post.
@theflatsticker

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2010, 12:42:28 PM »
Brett:

Reading your post, I was thinking of Anthony Gray and how you should have just waited for someone else to pay for your trip  ;)  but then it occurred to me that one of the things I like most about your Australian brethren [and also the Kiwis] is the natural willingness to just get up and go halfway around the world to do something you really want to do. 

I think many Americans have lost that frontier spirit in the last generation or two, and maybe that's one reason I stood out from the crowd in advancing my career.  How many letters did it take you to get a walk around Cypress Point?  It took me three to get to Pine Valley thirty years ago ... and I'd still be writing them if I needed to.

Brett_Morrissy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2010, 01:11:29 PM »
Tom:
3 letters and emails, tried to build some repoire with a person, put a face to the name, and try and stand out from the 100's of other requests they get with whatever you think will work. And sort advice from everyone I could think of on how to do those things.

Of course this forum is open for the world to view, and I have that in mind, and am now more mindful than ever of the privacy that these clubs seek and maintain, that is there way, and so that should be respected. It is just a pity they don't offer more opportunities for overseas guests as the clubs do here, and GB&I for that matter. So many people, after being made to jump the appropriate hurdles would benefit from some access to these amazing places.

And this is one of the main reasons that much kudos should go to the Mike Keiser's, Greg Ramsay's and Richard Sattlers of this world, that have made these places available to everyone.

So for me, PV and the East coast will have to wait a few more years...but one day I hope to get there, we had a long conversation over a few drinks on Ben's Porch with Mr Youngscap, he was most appreciatitive of us making the effort to travel for best part of 2 days to get to SH, as we were of our visit, mutual admiration society ;D

Brett
@theflatsticker

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2010, 02:07:44 PM »
Brett:

The Australian clubs can afford to be more open to visitors because you are so damned far away that you're not going to be overwhelmed with Americans anytime soon. 

Whereas, every single guest at Pebble Beach [a whole year's worth of a busy tee sheet] would be over to Cypress Point if they left the door ajar.  It sucks, but it's true.

Years ago the president of Pine Valley suggested to Swinley Forest that the two clubs have some sort of reciprocal play policy.  Swinley turned him down.  They noted that it wasn't an even trade ... the Yanks are always getting over to London to play, but why would any member of Swinley Forest want to get to New Jersey?

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2010, 03:06:18 PM »
Tom:
3 letters and emails, tried to build some repoire with a person....

I believe you mean rapport?   :)

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2010, 04:40:38 PM »
They noted that it wasn't an even trade ... the Yanks are always getting over to London to play, but why would any member of Swinley Forest want to get to New Jersey?

To see where Bon Jovi came from, obviously.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Trip to the USA....WOW!
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2010, 05:31:08 PM »
Great post Brett -- I really enjoyed reading that so I printed it and stuck it in my briefcase.  It's definitely worth carrying around with you when you need something good to read!

You're one lucky duck.  :)
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 05:53:40 PM by Eric Smith »

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