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PThomas

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Chicago Highland pictures
« on: August 04, 2010, 09:23:02 PM »
got the ok to post some from my recent visit, so here goes...6 sets of tees , 7463 to 5049

tee shot from 1



3rd tee



approach to 3:  tricky as green sits right behind a hill



long (243 from the tips) par 3 4th



4th green



more to follow...
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

PThomas

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2010, 09:36:06 PM »
5th tee, 499 par 5 from middle (6580) tees



par 3 6th, 175 middle



the huge and wild and crazy green of the par 5 7th



uphill tee shot of the unique 9th, 288 middle.....drive is simple, but the green has lots of slope so your 2nd is tricky



more still...
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

PThomas

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2010, 10:32:56 PM »
par 4 11th, bite off what you can chew from the tee



3rd to par 5 12th...water down the left side then on the right side of green, with fairway to the right of it



par 3 13th, can be played from 2 different directions, kind of like 9 at Kingsley



par 4 16th dogleg left



my favorite, looks like it's straight out of Nebraska:  par 3 17th



dogleg left par 5 18th...water down the left



overall, some good movement in the greens, a unique golf course for parkland-dominated Chicagoland, certainly better than Harborside, quite walkable, in good condition already/greens particularly smooth....if you get invited, dont pass it up!
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Phil McDade

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2010, 10:39:51 PM »
Paul:

I like the look of much of this, and the par 3s look really solid.

Mac Plumart

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2010, 07:14:11 AM »
Looks really good!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

George Freeman

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2010, 09:16:42 AM »
I played out at Chicago Highlands on Sunday morning with a few GCAers and thoroughly enjoyed my round.  The course is the antitheses of typical Chicagoland golf: treeless, open, wide, hilly property, firm conditions (even after much rain/humidity), quirky holes, etc.  

There are some very good and unique holes at CH, especially on the front nine.  #9 is hard to explain in words and I've never seen a hole like it.  Imagine hitting to the top of a massive hill, which is entirely shaved at fairway length.  The green sits at the summit, falling off on all sides.  You can see the pot bunker in Paul's picture; it is VERY deep, probably 10-12 feet.  The hole is short/drivable at less than 300 yds.  I don't know if I love it or hate it after making a back and forth (three times) double bogey; I would need more plays.  But IMO that's what makes a good hole...

Additionally, the conditions of the greens at Chicago Highlands was some of the best I've ever seen.  Immaculate, true, and very quick for such a new course and very very firm, which is also surprising for a new course and the amount of rain the area has received in the last week or so.  Their SI should be given an award.  It's amazing how much more fun golf is when courses play firm...
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Steve Lang

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2010, 10:47:19 AM »
 8) What will the Art Hills detractors have to say about CH?
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Jud_T

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2010, 10:52:40 AM »
Shouldn't the relevant comparison be Black Sheep and not Harborside?
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Terry Lavin

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2010, 11:18:14 AM »
It's a lot closer to Harborside than Black Sheep, based on my one play.  Don't get me wrong, this is an excellent use of a former dump, just like Harborside.  And, just like Harborside, some of the more ghastly views (which Paul rather collegially chose not to show here) help you remember that you are nowhere near Nebraska, you're near the toll plaza on I-294.  Or you're in the virtual shadow of the Brobdingnagian Westchester water tower.  Or you're counting something in the neighborhood of 25 water towers, radio towers and a few gigantic highway signs as you stand on top of an enormous landfill.

Much of this, of course, the architect cannot control.  But unless you keep your head down all day, there's no question that the surroundings of this golf course greatly distract from the strong holes that do exist.  I'd say there are seven very stout holes, with 4, 7, 9, 12 and 17 immediately coming to mind.  Some of the holes at Chicago Highlands are reminiscent of two of the nines at Ivanhoe, another Hills course in the northwest suburban area.  This golf course is not nearly as good as Ivanhoe, IMHO.  There is too much forced quirk, very visible at 2 and 3 with some silly wall like mounds to prevent a shot into the green.  There are a lot of unsightly berms to try to mask some of the unsightly views of the tollway and there's a hole with a lovely unobstructed view of the maintenance facility (landscaping surely to follow) But, most of all, the bunkering is very disappointing.  The fairway bunkers on many holes are so shallow that a golfer could have a shot that's half in the sand and half on the land.  The ball doesn't roll anywhere in a lot of these fairway bunkers.  I think they'll eventually re-do the bunkers.  If they were properly dug out, I think it would be a much more interesting golf course.

At the end of the day, this is a bold development that doesn't show me any signs of greatness.  It's more toward the mediocre, even if some of the holes are very, very good.

As long as you keep your head down.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 11:20:03 AM by Terry Lavin »
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

jonathan_becker

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2010, 12:27:55 PM »
Paul,

Thanks for the photos.  So I'm guessing that this place is sandwiched between Cermack Rd and 31st St?  I don't know why and I know it's there, but I'm still having a hard time imagining a golf course in that location.

Chris Flamion

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2010, 09:18:46 PM »
I do love the look of the course.  Even though there have been a couple times that I have seen people playing when I drive by on the interstate..

I also like how there is a bit of quirk in the course.  Something I don't get to see enough of in this area.

Matthew Sander

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2010, 11:13:59 PM »
I'm not trying to be overly agreeable, but without having played CH I think I see merit in all of your posts so far. The course does seem to provide an aesthetic and level of quirk that is uncommon in the Chicago area, which is dominated by parkland courses. I would imagine it could be a refreshing change of pace and an interesting place to play.

That said, Terry's comments about the outlying environment are what I've expected all along. That location just does not suggest prime land for golf. The best shapers in the world could do nothing about the water towers, the interstate, or its toll plazas. Maybe if the course is outstanding it could create some kind of bizarre juxtaposition of excellent golf and civic infrastructure. I know its been discussed on this site before, but to what extent can what is on the ground make up for what surrounds the course?

Also, kudos to Terry for using "Brobdingnagian"...word of the day ;D

Mike Hendren

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2010, 10:37:49 AM »
I find an attractive (highly subjective) external environment can greatly enhance a golf course, but don't generally find an unfavorable external environment to be detrimental. 

Which is this?


Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Phil McDade

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2010, 03:17:12 PM »
Bogey:

I was thinking (I think ;)) the same thing when that photo was posted -- I thought it one of the coolest looking backdrops to a course I'd seen posted here.

I know when I posted this photo thread of a course in Wisconsin (Glen Erin):

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,39725.0/

some notable posters remarked at the stark background provided by a local airport for a few of the holes.

To me, I've always thought noise was more of an issue than sightlines. Glen Erin's cousin here in Wisconsin -- the Oaks, near my home in the Madison area -- sits right next to one of the busiest stretches of interstate highway in the state, and I find that much more distracting and annoying than the view. I'm guessing Highlands has some of both -- as it sits next to a very busy highway.


Paul Richards

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2010, 10:34:39 PM »
I will be happy to clarify a few misconceptions that have been brought up on this and other threads regarding the Chicago Highlands course.

First off, and this is it for now, I have played over 50 different golf courses this year, from Seattle to Portland to Bandon to Arizona to Colorado to Florida to Michigan and Illinois, and, of course, the Highlands of Scotland - and I have yet to see ANY greens that compare to the quality of the ones here at CH.

Period.

« Last Edit: August 19, 2010, 10:11:26 AM by Paul Richards »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Jud_T

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2010, 03:19:48 PM »
Paul,

That's a pretty bold statement.  Are you referring to the conditioning of the greens or the internal contour and interest of the design?
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

K. Krahenbuhl

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2010, 05:01:52 PM »
The greens rolled very well when I was there even though we played after a storm had rolled through.

Paul Richards

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2010, 10:26:08 PM »
Jud:

I said: I have yet to see ANY greens that compare to the quality of the ones here at CH.

Period.


My reference is to the conditioning of the greens.  They are immaculate.  They putt true.  And they play hard and fast.  Best greens all year.

And, by the way, they are very interesting.  Not as big and bold as Old Macdonald's, but who's are?

So great condition and of great interest.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 06:31:45 AM by Paul Richards »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Paul Richards

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2010, 04:23:15 PM »
Jud:

To answer your question, the proper comparison is Black Sheep - they both are 'linksy' and play hard and fast.

Harborside, outside of them both being built on reclaimed land, is no comparison.  None.  Harborside is overwatered and much, much less interesting.

Bayonne (as per the photo by Phil), is a much more apt comparison of a course built up 'on high.'

"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Paul Richards

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2010, 04:27:05 PM »
Phil:

To address your statement:  the par 3's are all very unique and very memorable.

For instance, today at #4, I hit a 5 wood. 

At #6, I hit a 4 hybrid.

At #13, I hit a 6 iron.

And at #17, I hit the pin with an 8-iron.  Happily, I even made the birdie putt.  ;)

As a comparison, two weeks ago I played what is generally regarded as a Top 100 course, and hit four hybrid 4-irons to the greens there.  All the three pars felt the same - same deep bunkering, same shot, over and over....

Cannot imagine a scenario where you would hit the same club at all four of Chicago Highlands three pars....
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Phil McDade

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2010, 04:28:03 PM »
Paul:

Geniunely curious -- how's the noise there?

I really don't mind odd or seemingly out of place sightlines -- some can be quite interesting.

Noise, though (for me) is a bit different, esp. the constant din of a busy highway. How is it at Highlands?


Paul Richards

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2010, 04:28:17 PM »
Steve:

>>What will the Art Hills detractors have to say about CH?


Even his detractors will say that this is his best work.   :)
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Paul Richards

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2010, 04:33:37 PM »
Hey, Phil.

To answer your question about noise, I have to remind you that my 'other' Home Course is Beverly - which we affectionately refer to as "Planes, Trains, and Ambulances".

To date, some 110,000 loads of fill have been dumped upon the Highlands site.  There are still some 60,000 more to go. 

The berm that is along the Tri-State Tollway, I-294, will be some 35 feet tall and 200 feet wide when complete.  This berm is the last to be built on the property.  So whatever noise you currently hear on the course will be mitigated to a tremendous extent by the completion of this berm.  The 'view' for instance, from the thirteenth tee, which currently consists of I-294 and the tollbooth, will be non-existent when the berm is complete, as the berm will be some 6 to 8 feet higher than this tee.  So many of these 'views' that are mentioned above that detract today, will no longer be visible.

And the sound will be much quieter.
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Phil McDade

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2010, 04:36:44 PM »
Paul:

Thanks -- and the one day I visited and played the Bev (maybe it was a quiet day on the South Side :D), I never heard anything that remotely bothered me or took my off my (admittedly poor) game.

Paul Richards

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Re: Chicago Highland pictures
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2010, 04:37:24 PM »
Johnathon:

>>So I'm guessing that this place is sandwiched between Cermack Rd and 31st St?  I don't know why and I know it's there, but I'm still having a hard time imagining a golf course in that location.

When you say 'sandwiched', you need to stretch your imagination a bit.  There are 270 acres here!

So besides an 18-hole golf course (7500 yards from the tips), there will be 3 practice holes, a double-sided, 450 yard range, that will also have indoor/outdoor bays to have year-round practice.  As far as club amenities, there will be a resort style pool (with 3 or 4 total pools), 4 tennis courts, an ice hockey rink, paddle tennis, four tennis courts, and a bowling alley in the basement of the clubhouse.

 :)
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG