[Rick Shefchik]

Does anyone know whether Fovargue was the head professional at Town & Country in St. Paul in 1900? I know he was a pro at the Cleveland Country Club in 1898, and later at the Philadelphia Country Club in 1902, before going on to design courses (including Lakeland in San Francisco).

A wall display at Town & Country says the pro in 1900 was Walter Fovargue, but the club's 100th anniversary book says the pro was named Walter Forgaard. Anybody know for sure?

[Tom Walsh]

don't know if this is the same guy, but check these links from American Memory
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?cdn:14:./temp/~ammem_3Hwc::@@@mdb=cdn,detr

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?cdn:31:./temp/~ammem_3Hwc::@@@mdb=cdn,detr

[Pete_Pittock]

Or this link
http://philadelphia.pga.com/gui/philly9/filedownload/1895%20to%201915%20Leaders%20&%20Legends.pdf

[Phil_the_Author]

Rick,

This 1916 article from the San Francisco Chronicle mentions a good deal of his background without a word about Town and Country. Note that it does say that in 1898 he started his career under Joe Mitchell at Cleveland which is in agreement with Pete's article. That may give you a few more clues to follow up on.

 

[Rick Shefchik]

I do appreciate the efforts to help me pin Fovargue down, everyone. Pete, that's the item I pulled up on Google that gave me the Cleveland and Philadelphia -- and that's where I noticed the gap in his resume that could have allowed for a year spent in St. Paul. Tom, I tried your links, but I got "display failed" messages on both of them. If you could check those links again, I'd like to see them. Philip, that's an interesting article -- I didn't know that Fovargue was an associate of Donald Ross. I did know that he was at Skokie; maybe his stop in St. Paul was so brief that it didn't merit a mention.

My guess is that Town & Country's clubhouse display has it right -- I can't find any reference online to a Walter Forgaard.

[Tom Walsh]

re: the links--yep not working anymore for me either 

try it this way
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/index.html

type in fevargus in the upper right search rectangle

you'll get two hits

[Rick Shefchik]

Thanks, Tom. This is getting humorous. Now I have three spellings of (presumably) the same name to search for: Fovargue, Forgaard and Fevargus.

No wonder we can't seem to agree on anything at GCA when it comes to old newspaper accounts.

[Ralph Bresee]

Thanks, Tom. This is getting humorous. Now I have three spellings of (presumably) the same name to search for: Fovargue, Forgaard and Fevargus.

No wonder we can't seem to agree on anything at GCA when it comes to old newspaper accounts.

To: Rick Shefchik

And, now you have four,

 "Walter Frovargue, a nationally-known golf architect from Aberdeen was chosen to design the course.",

 from "Pacific County Historical Society and Museum", The Sou'wester
of the Pacific County Historical Society and Museum
Winter 2006 & Spring 2007, Volume XLII, Number 4 & XLIII, Number 1


Suggest you go with "Fovargue", I went to school in Aberdeen. The course the quote is referring to is the course in Raymond, WA

From: Ralph Bresee

[Sean_Tully]

Rick-

To start off “Fovie” was involved with the Lakeside course that was the precursor to the Olympic Club.  I have stuck with calling him Fovie as it is easier to type, but that it was also his nickname when he was growing up as he was on the small side as a young man. I was interested in him as I had found a similar mention to what Phil has that puts him as an understudy to Ross. This was news to me and I passed it on to Brad Klein and he had not heard of that connection up to that point.

Here is what I have on Fovie as he is one of the many pros that I have taken an interest in due to his time spent in the Bay area. I have him as a being born in the US as the Skokie Club raised money to get him to the British Open because he was a “home-born player” and from the info that I have added below.

Here is what I have…
Picked up game in the Fall of 1896 at Cleveland CC
In 1899, Joe Mitchell was brought in at Cleveland CC from Berlin and “Fovie” got his real start under him.
His first professional engagement was at London, Ontario.
Then at Thomasville, GA where he instructed John D. Rockerfeller!
Town and Country Club in St. Paul.
Marietta, Ohio.
LaGrange CC in Illinois
Philadelphia CC
Memphis CC
Maplewood Hotel, N.H.
Kent CC of Grand Rapids
Pasadena, California
From about 1906-7ish to 1916 he was the Pro at Skokie. April 1913 he is practicing in Texas and getting ready to go to the British Open.

This gives you a good timeline for where he was, now you just have to dig up some course names and dig a little deeper. He also had a brother named Arthur that was also a Pro in the Bay area at a number of courses.

Needless to say he got around!

Tully

[Rick Shefchik]

Sean,

Thanks for the excellent information of Fovargue. Apparently he never made it to Hoylake for the 1913 Open Championship. He is not listed among the competitors on the Open's official site.

It is interesting that Town & Country has so little info on the man, who actually has a solid pedigree. (Like so many clubs, T&C lost much of its pre-1930 records). According to the club's history, Fovargue was French, but that doesn't jibe with the available information I've seen elsewhere.

All of which makes me wonder about the official origins of T&C's course. Their history says the first formal nine holes were laid out in 1895 by "well-known" Chicago amateur E.J. Frost, about whom I can find almost no other information. Two years later they raised $2000 for an entirely new layout, with bunkers and mounding, built by the Chicago civil engineering firm of Fowble & Fitz. No actual architectural credit is given.

After this new version of the course was built, T&C hired Robert Foulis, who was then at Owentsia, to come to St. Paul as the club's first pro and green keeper. I had thought Foulis might have arrived early enough to contribute to the course's design, but the timeline from the club's official history indicates otherwise. Foulis obviously had interest in golf course design; he and Willie Watson laid out the first nine holes at Minikahda a year later in 1899. (Fovargue showed up for his one year as T&C pro in 1900.)

In 1903 the club spent $40,000 to buy the pasture land it had been leasing, and another $2,000 to expand the course to 18 holes (again, no architect credited for the design.)

I'm trying to put together an accurate account of T&C's development, as it's one of the oldest courses in America and of great significance to the history of golf in Minnesota. If anybody has any more info or leads on this subject, I'd love to hear from you.

[Ralph Bresee]

Regarding search for information about Walter Fovargue:

Researchers will find two Fovargue names through GHIN, Washington handicap searches, playing out of Grays Harbor Country Club, Aberdeen, WA.

My understanding, based on information gained from a long time member of the club, who rightfully and quite proudly states that Walter is the architect of his, the member's, course, is that they are related to Walter. Additionally, he stated one lives locally to Aberdeen, WA.

Does anyone have information regarding John Ball, credited with being the initial architect for Grays Harbor Country Club golf course?

Also, does anyone have information regarding Fovargue's Willapa Harbor Golf Course, Raymond, WA, (late 1920,s)?

May I be first to posit that Walter would have played Tokeland Golf Links, Tokeland, WA.?

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