Will Parsinen realize his dream?

[Garland Bayley]

From Golf Digest.

"The biggest highlight of the trip, however, was Castle Stuart Golf Links, opened just a year ago and already acclaimed by one prominent Scottish golf writer as the best course in the UK built since World War II. On the edge of Inverness, an hour and a half drive from Dornoch, it was developed by Mark Parsinen, a former Silicon Valley entrepreneur who also developed Kingsbarns near St. Andrews. He worked in partnership with designer Gil Hanse, and his ultimate goal is for the course to be a venue for a British Open. It will take time, but it wouldn’t surprise me if Parsinen achieves that goal some day."

Read More http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/blogs/wheres-matty-g/2010/07/trip-report-dornoch-skibo-cast.html#ixzz0uQriXY58

[Tony Weiler]

Garland, it will never get an Open if there's a chance someone could shoot a 63 there on a calm day.  

Thanks for the link.  Just read the article, and the few pics of Castle Stuart look great.  But what's with that clubhouse? 

[Niall C]

Garland

No chance. And I don't mean to be unkind in saying that. Marty Bonnar started another thread about Major venues which weren't logistically too clever. Turnberry was one Open venue that took a panning because it was relatively remote and its poor transport links. Well in comparison Castle Stuart may as well be on the moon. They wouldn't even get half the numbers that Turnberry gets.

Of more importance, the course simply isn't a championship test and I say that with respect. It is what it is, a fun course for non-competition golf. The fairways are a mile wide which are defined by containment mounding. To achieve any kind of penalty they would need to half the fairway widths which would look stupid, and they would need to plant a ridiculous number of bunkers to guard most of the green sites. Does Mark Parsinen really want that ? Does he really think he would get an Open without radically changing the character of the course ? In his heart of hearts, I doubt it.

Niall 

[David_Tepper]

Tony Weiler -

The design on the Castle Stuart clubhouse has been discussed here on prior threads. The basic theme of the design is to capture the "art deco" era of the 1920's-30's. The clubhouse at Royal Birkdale is from that era. The views from the clubhouse are spectacular.  

Niall -

My guess is Kingsbarns is higher up on the list for possible Open sights than Castle Stuart, especially at this point. Frankly, I wonder if either of us will live long enough to see a different or new course introduced into the Open rota.

Regarding the fitness of Castle Stuart as a championship test, I think the course might be stronger than you think, especially when played from the way back tees. I found the green complexes demanding. As we have seen in recent Opens, fairway bunkers have been rendered more or less irrelevant as most players now can blow the ball by them, so the lack of them at Castle Stuart is not a big deal. Having 6 greens perched on the edge of the Moray Firth certainly would make spectating on the course difficult. As with any seaside/links course, the wind and the weather will have a big impact on scoring.

DT  

[Anthony Gray]

  It could be "set up" with some minor changes to be a championship course. I would guess that the course has more wind on a constant basis than St Andrews and it is more exposed.

  Anthony

[George Freeman]

...The fairways are a mile wide which are defined by containment mounding...

Containment mounding at Castle Stuart? I've never heard anyone say anything about containment mounding there; and from the pictures I've seen, I don't recall noticing any sort of containment mounding.

I'm not saying you're wrong Niall, b/c I've never been there, but that comment was not something I was expecting to hear regarding Castle Stuart. Caught me off guard.

 

[David_Tepper]

George -

Rather than "containment mounding," I would say that a number of the fairways have been "sculpted" so that you do not see what is happening on an adjacent or parallel  fairway. 

DT

[Niall C]

George -

Rather than "containment mounding," I would say that a number of the fairways have been "sculpted" so that you do not see what is happening on an adjacent or parallel  fairway. 

DT

my word, you should be in advertising DT !

Actually I prefer the way you put it, "containment mounding" does have a negative connattation to it. You are right that Kingsbarns has a much better chance, not just because I think it would present a stiffer test but also from the logistics point of view it ticks a lot more boxes. Simply put there isn't a big enough catchment area locally to get the crowds that the Open now needs. Apparently the Open at Turnberry was "subsidised" by previuos years takings and as I said I doubt CS would get half the numbers.

Niall

[Phil_the_Author]

I disagree, Kingsbarns has very little chance of hosting an Open championship as long as that other course 7 miles down the road hosts one every 5 years...

[Brian Freeman]

No chance, and the course has nothing to do with it.

They won't send an Open to Castle Stuart for the same reason they'll never send one to Royal Dornoch - and that's exactly how we want it.  Here's to hoping the Open never comes to the Highlands, they don't need it, nor should they want it.

[Garland Bayley]

After a little mapquesting I find that Aberdeen is closer to Castle Stuart than San Francisco is to Pebble Beach.
I assume that remoteness is the primary factor people are saying this won't happen. Certainly the roads can't be worse than getting all the spectators down 17 mile drive can they?

Is Aberdeen large enough to accommodate the crowd for an open?

[David_Tepper]

Garland -

While Aberdeen may be closer to Castle Stuart/Inverness than San Francisco is to Pebble Beach, I can assure you the drive time is considerably longer, as it is 95% on a 2-lane road. In addition, the route you take goes directly thru 5 or 6 villages where you encounter local traffic and mothers pushing their babies around in prams.

I made the Aberdeen-Inverness drive back & forth in May/June and there is no way many people would want to do that every day for 5 or 6 days in a row.

Pebble Beach/Carmel/the Monetery Peninsula is virtually a year round destination vacation area with a sizable hospitality infrastructure.  People travel to that area for much more than golf. I am sure a good number of people visit that area and never come close to visiting San Francisco on the same trip.

Nairn Golf Club is 10-15 miles from Castle Stuart. It has hosted the British Amateur and it will host the next Curtis Cup. Events of that size are not a problem.

While Inverness has been one of the fasting growing cities in the UK over the past decade, I think hosting an event like the Open is simply not logistically feasible within the next 10 years, regardless of the merits of the Castle Stuart course.

DT      

[Tom Dunne]

Before this article, I'd never read or heard anything about a goal of Castle Stuart landing the Open. Just saying. 

[Tom_Doak]

Well, there's no chance of that, since Donald Trump's course will be hosting The Open every year.  [In that same alternate universe.]

[Sean_A]

No, I honestly think that if the R&A were willing (and they may be!) to seek out another Open venue it will be Porthcawl or Portrush.  I could also see Deal getting consideration before any other course in Scotland is considered. 

Ciao

[Chris Kane]

Kingsbarns shouldn't host the Open because it isn't a links - it plays like a parkland course. It just happens to have no trees and be on the coast.

I like playing there a lot, but lets not call it what it isn't.

[Brian Freeman]

Is Aberdeen large enough to accommodate the crowd for an open?

Aberdeen itself is definitely large enough to support the Open and related infrastructure.  Which makes me think if the R&A ever wanted to add to the rota, Royal Aberdeen might be a good place to look.  They have a history of successful events there and the course is certainly challenging enough with plenty of length and room to add a few tees.

[Niall C]

Philip

Remember, Carnoustie ain't that far from St Andrews either and Troon and Turnberry are, relatively speaking in the same neck of the woods and working with the same catchment area. You should also remember the R&A put some investment into Kingsbarns (£1m ?) which they may still have in it, I'm not sure.

Chris,

I agree, Kingsbarns isn't a true links but its close enough for the Dunhill to be played there.

Niall

[Jason McNamara]

Aberdeen itself is definitely large enough to support the Open and related infrastructure.  Which makes me think if the R&A ever wanted to add to the rota, Royal Aberdeen might be a good place to look.  They have a history of successful events there and the course is certainly challenging enough with plenty of length and room to add a few tees.

The senior men were there a couple years back - the course looked utterly fantastic.

[Phil_the_Author]

Before one is so quick to dismiss Kingsbarns as not being a "links" consider carefully how Walter Woods feels about that. His answer will suprise a great many...

He told me during an interview that if he hadn't seen it being built that no one could convince hiom that it wasn't a natural links course... That is high praise.

Niall, Caranoustie is forever from St. Andrews in relation to how close Kingsbarns is...

[Niall C]

Philip

Bear in mind that Walter Woods played a hand in Kingsbarns, even if it was a small part, so perhaps he is a touch biased. Certainly the course looks the part and most times plays the part but then so does a clay based parkland course in the middle of those rare sun drenched summers that we sometimes get in Scotland.

The point is that the soil at Kingsbarns is as dark as a west coast links and somehow feels more dirt based than sand based which effectively what it is. I would love to be able to articulate that a bit better, unfortunately I'm not a agronomist or greenkeeper, however if you compare it to other links I think you would see what I mean.

With regards to travel distances from St Andrews I think my point remains valid. I think I'm right in saying some of the English venues are fairly close as well. The question of the eligibility is about are they good enough, do they have the facilities/infrastructure and is their a big enough catchment area to generate the crowds required to pay for the thing. The only thing I think Kingsbarns perhaps falls down on is the public transport perhaps isn't the best.

Going back to the original question about Castle Stuart, they simply wouldn't get enough people through the gate to make it feasible in my opinion.

Niall