[John Foley]

I would love to know what people think the 8 (I'll give Pine Valley a pass) other "Better" courses in NJ  are.

Lets start listing them and you can define "Better" any way you like.

[Matt_Ward]

John F:

Don't know if you have played the "new" Essex County. Superb layout. Plainfield CC is also a gem. Ditto the likes of Galloway National just outside the AC area. I'd place them in some sort of order after PV. Bayonne is right in that midst of courses in my mind. Feel free to let me know your thoughts on how you view matters.

Link:

Essex County CC is in West Orange, NJ. There are clubs in the USA which use the same name. The one in Jersey is often left off the discussion listing.

Link there are plenty of people who may be "impressed" -- the issue is placing the course in some sort of context. I did that. I really like what Bayonne is about -- Jersey has a number of top layouts but Bayonne gets little attention from many. No doubt the private status may play a role but Shadow Creek is really quasi private given the costs associated with playing there.

Link -- Shadow Creek comes up more than you might imagine. I see it in a far different light and believe other courses of that type -- namely Bayonne, have really done extremely well given the immense hurdles they had to overcome.

[Dan Herrmann]

Bayonne - I want to go to there!

[Matt_Ward]

Dan:

Touch base with me when time allows !

[Tim Gavrich]

Bayonne GC looks absolutely spectacular.  I've never seen pictures of a golf course where the main scenery around is industrial buildings and that appears to enhance the whole aura of the place.  Pretty cool.

[Joel_Stewart]

There are a couple of you tube videos on Bayonne including this one on the construction.  Who was the construction company?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USz6hhVE46I

[Mike Policano]

John F,

Here is Bayonne's competition for top 10 in New Jersey in no order.

Pine Valley, Plainfield, Mountain Ridge, Baltusrol Lower, Baltusrol Upper, Ridgewood, Essex County, Galloway, Somerset Hills, Trump Bedminster, Hidden Creek.

Matt Ward can add and delete from this list.

Also, as far as recognition for Bayonne, it is ranked Modern 23 by Golfweek.

Cheers

[archie_struthers]

 

George didn't really address some of your queries

the landing areas are generous but you have to hit it to certain areas to get the right angle to the next shot

the knee high fescue is like Ireland ...not real good if you hit it in there....good caddies ...but it's pot luck  50/50 finding and not great chance to advance ball .....but thats the deal with fescue

not sure but perhaps 125 feet of elevation change from high to low


it is firm and pretty fast ...even with obvious restirictions due to the weather 

[Adam Clayman]

One of my feelings about Bayonne, is that it's uniqueness to the region, on a couple of levels, (play abilities and visuals) sets it apart, giving it special consideration when trying to compare it to other courses.

Mike P,
#23 on GW modern is pretty strong company. Thanks for shedding some perspective on any comments about under appreciation.

For the record, I walked Bayonne in sweltering heat and humidity. The air was so thick, that most of the impact-full visuals were shrouded in a grey haze, which made them moot to my feelings. That said, I felt the course was very good, with any possible short comings, being mostly related to the site's size and scale. Which is ok in my book, because what was done there, deserves special consideration.

Maybe worthy of a separate thread, BUT, What's a risk reward hole?

[archie_struthers]

Adam ...we played Wednesday in sweltering heat and humidity and the wind kicked up pretty good half way thru .....still really hot hot hot ....don't know if Tim was tongue in cheek but the buildings are surely overwhelmed by the quality of the golf holes...and really are masked by dunes to a great extent....certainly TOC ihas got more visual pollution and it's still pretty cool

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

Thanks for posting the other candidates -- I would add the likes of Forsgate to the mix but I will say this -- Bayonne is not at the level of PV and Plainfield. I am not a fan of either of the two layouts at Baltusrol. I like Hidden Creek but it's not at the same level as Bayonne. Ditto the Trump courses or Mountain Ridge or Somerset Hills. The competition comes from the likes of Galloway National, Essex County, Ridgewood.

Other than that Bayonne is right there in the middle of the pack for my personal top ten.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike:

Thanks for posting the other candidates -- I would add the likes of Forsgate to the mix but I will say this -- Bayonne is not at the level of PV and Plainfield. I am not a fan of either of the two layouts at Baltusrol. I like Hidden Creek but it's not at the same level as Bayonne. Ditto the Trump courses or Mountain Ridge or Somerset Hills. The competition comes from the likes of Galloway National, Essex County, Ridgewood.

Other than that Bayonne is right there in the middle of the pack for my personal top ten.



Matt, I'd agree with you and Archie that Bayonne is a modern golf marvel and a very good golf course.

When you consider that prior to the 100 % importing of the golf course and everything associated with it, that the site was a flat 10' ASL, it's really quite remarkable.

I do think that the land constraints produced some negatives that are too easily glossed over.

Given the choice of playing Bayonne every day, versus everyday play at:       Hidden Creek
                                                                                                          Hollywood
                                                                                                          Mountain Ridge

I'd lean toward those three by a good margin.

Somerset might be a toss up to some.

I also prefer Bayonne to Galloway.

The two Trump courses are a nice collection of holes, by lack continuity between green and tee, as does Bayonne due to land constraints.

The wind is certainly a big positive at Bayonne, making play very enjoyable and demanding.

What Eric did is quite amazing.

The putting surfaces may be amongst the best in the Met area.

It's a three dimensional golf course, which is quite unusual.... anywhere.

[Matt_Ward]

Archie:

Bayonne is a great example of the reality that many courses suffer when they don't have a "name" architect as the listed person responsible for the course.

Black Mesa with Baxter Spann is another example -- there are numerous others.

Too many people on GCA and elsewhere only gravitate towards those they know.

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