Old Course - A Mediocre British Open Site?

[JWinick]

Was anyone underwhelmed by the Old Course as a British Open site?  Unless the wind is blowing at an unplayable level, it seems like the Old Course is no longer a competitive championship venue.   Of course, that means absolutely nothing in evaluating the architectural merits of the Home of Golf, but a lot of work needs to be done to keep players from demolishing the course.   Relying on the wind alone as a defense is just not enough these days with the technology that has changed the game for the worse. 

[Jamie Barber]

This topic has been kind of done to death but I thought it was a great championship.

TOC isn't my favourite Open venue but still I thought it was competitive, and the wind is a large part of what makes links golf links golf.

If the course is diminished as a challenge that's due to the balls, and so the R&A/USGA should wake up. Changing the courses to suit the balls is like the tail wagging the dog, IMHO. Read an interesting article by Peter Thompson and he made the point that in every other sport the game is made to fit the arena. With modern balls golf is somewhat moving away from that.

[Melvyn Morrow]

The Open first and foremost it’s a Links thing.

The weather is a major factor in Links Golf, its defines the Game of Golf.

I for one enjoyed The Open this year, the difference from Thursday, Friday with the steady improvement up till Sunday, yet the wind was ever present certainly on Sunday. All resulting in a great Open IMHO.

As many said before the first round the putting was going to win the Tournament and I feel it certainly did. We watched many a long putt sunk while seeing lots of shorter ones missed. But then is that not the magic of Links Golf with the added fun of is double Greens.

The Old Course has its critics, yet it still tests the golfer. However, we are rapidly approaching the real limits of this size of course be it links or inland. Par 4 Greens being drivable is in my book a clear warning sign that the ball and club evolution must be stopped. Yes of course we must take players fitness into account, but by seriously using the technology we currently posses new clubs and ball can be designed to refresh all our courses both home and overseas. The key point being that the cost would be minimal compared to the constant cost to lengthen and maintain these extended courses – that is if land permits.

I feel it would be a total dereliction of duty to see courses like TOC being forced to change when there is a simple inexpensive (well for the clubs and course owners – players will have to buy a new set of clubs) solution to the problem. The problem is that the powers that be do not see a problem.

As to gauge roll back, that’s for another topic.

If the R&A continue down the current line all courses being played by the Pro’s (The Tours and Majors) WILL have to be modified, wiping out the design features of some of our great designers. Perhaps being replaced with large lakes and Island Greens showing the blandness of some of the modern designs.

Consider then the options of addressing the issue by changing the equipment at minimal cost and then mainly on the shoulders of the golfer or the financial burden of major modifications with that cost and the on going cost of maintaining the growing course, not to mention the disruption to play on the course while work is undertaken.

Nevertheless, for the average golfer TOC is still a wonder and a challenge, - as for Green Fees, that seems fair due to demand. Well if you live there it is so much cheaper to play and not just TOC but again that’s for another topic.

It was a great Open with some great golf and I for one would hate to see TOC not being included – IMHO TOC raises the stakes and makes it that little bit special every 5 years.

Melvyn

Formal Notice of Compliance ( Form DT/MS - AH2U)
As I have not mentioned any relatives either dead or alive I have not had to seek permission or gain approval from David Tipper or Mike Sweeney prior to it being posted. I believe I have shown no self-promotion in the production of this post.     

[Philippe Binette]

they demolished turnberry last year in the first round... and then the wind showed up.

Let's face it, any course that is soft and no wind will be demolished by those guys... The god thing withlinks golf is that even with alot of rain, the course firms up fast afterwards.

If the Old Course ad been firm all week, with a steady 15 mph wind, you would have seen (not counting Oosty) a winning score at -12 to -14... which is fine with me

[PCCraig]

It would be considered "mediocre" if final score was the main factor.

Otherwise I can't think of another course in the British Open "rota" that I enjoy watching the pros play more, regardless of score.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Pat

Well said, wow we have someing we agree upon.

Melvyn

[Adam Clayman]

Pat Craig nails it when he mentions final score. It shouldn't matter what score is in relation to par. What's artificial is the historical imbalance that proves just how much the best players are today compared to yesteryear. This feeble attempt to keep scores in a predetermined range has hurt the entire sport. What a ridiculous notion that the gca is outstanding yet its not a fitting course to determine the open champion.  How does a student of architecture come to that conclusion?

It is a course of constant risks and constant opportunities of recovering, of infinitely varied and, to the strange, unorthodox shots, of a certain amount of good luck and bad luck, of great differences in result due to very small differences in direction. It is occasionally the most exasperating course in the world; it is always the least dull.
BERNARD DARWIN

[Phil Benedict]

What seems to separate TOC from other venues is the pros can hit driver almost everywhere; hence it is particularly vulnerable to the advance of technology.  Is there any other championship site (for any major) with so many potential eagle holes?  Other sites take the driver out of the players's hands on many holes, protecting the course from the impact of technology.

As Pat said, however, who cares about the final score?  There's no place in the world with a vibe like TOC.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

I must have watched a different tournament--there were many great shots, some disasters, some incredible golf, and an awesoome leaderboard.  What more should a championship provide?   Though not a household name, those who have watched the golf channel's European Tour telecasts have seen Oosthuizen lingering in the top 10 almost every week for almost 4 years now.  Eventually, that kind of consistency pays off.  Though he failed a backdoor top 10, Tiger was close to form and we almost saw a rare 1 on 18. He hit a lot of high quality putts that found ways to stay out of the hole.  For those Tiger watchers, he is swinging the best in several years--a stronger left hand grip and he might be back to 2002 swing quality.  As for Westwood, he was great to watch.  Most importantly, unlike the US Open with no realistic birdie piins from holes 9-18, the course was set up with birdie opportunities and Oosthuizen did not sit on his lead until Casey fell on the wrong side of his risk.  Is there anything better than this type of result in championship golf?

[Bill_McBride]

Melvyn, what did you say in 1970 when Jack Nicklaus drove the green on 18?  To me that hole is wonderful following three difficult par 4's as it does.  The excitement of a possible eagle and potential for a disappointing par create a lot of tension.  Who could ever forget Nicklaus driving the green, or Rocca holing the putt from the Valley of Sin after chili dipping his first attempt?

IMHO, anyone who professes to find the Old Course an unsatisfactory venue for the Open championship has most likely never been there, and is either an agent provocateur or just doesn't get what's going on while playing a very keen links in varying winds.

[Bill_McBride]

Formal Notice of Compliance ( Form DT/MS - AH2U)
As I have not mentioned any relatives either dead or alive I have not had to seek permission or gain approval from David Tipper or Mike Sweeney prior to it being posted. I believe I have shown no self-promotion in the production of this post.     

   LOL

Melvyn, can you decipher the disclaimer code?  I fear I may have worked it out on my own!   

[Terry Lavin]

No.  No.  And No!

If you don't get wind, you don't get the full effect of links golf, plain and simple.  And even without the wind, the course is pure, complex and beguiling even if the pros can seem to just kill it.  They can kill any golf course, if the conditions are right for scoring.  So I would say TOC is anything but mediocre, despite the fact that this time, the championship may have seemed, to some, less compelling because of the scoring or the winner.

[Brent Hutto]

Having watched 'most every shot the champion played over the weekend, I have to ask this. I saw someone who was driving the ball as Far and Sure as humanly possible with one pure swing after another and lagging every long putt dead to the hole (not counting the ones that went in!) while making virtually no misjudgments or errors of hubris.

Which is the better venue for showcasing that kind of "lightning in a bottle" round? One that allows him to dodge hundreds of bunkers in a stiff wind and show off with 80-foot putts made easy? Or a prototypical Major Championship Venue that is tricked up to make him finish with a score of 2-under?

For someone unsure of their trajectory control or lacking confidence in their driving or putting the Old Course last week was absolutely as much as they could handle and more. For someone playing the best four days of golf of their life the Old Course could be "surgically" dismantled and made to look like a pitch-and-putt. That is not irrelevant to the game today or any other day in my opinion.

[PThomas]

a 1000 lashes for even suggesting such a thing Mr. Winick!

[Brian Freeman]

Strongly disagree.  Oosthuizen had a once in a generation type dominating performance.  His score aside, 9 under was second place, which matched the lead after the first day with no wind.  And judging a links course on a day with no wind is like judging Pebble Beach based off the AT&T Pro-Am set up, or Augusta with soft greens rolling 10 on the stimp.  And on a course with multiple driveable par 4s and multiple others under 400 yards, 2nd place couldn't beat the first day lead.  A US course with the same parameters would be like the John Deere Classic.  

I would make the exact opposite argument, which is that this is the year which has proven TOC is still highly relevant as an Open site.  The course identified the man who was clearly the best golfer that week - isn't that exactly what we want from a course in a competition?  If anything it does too good of a job as Tiger and Oosthuizen have dominated the field in the last three Opens to the point is hasn't been a contest the last few holes.  My only regret is that I would love to see a battle down the stretch one year, 16, 17, 18 on this course with the tournament in doubt.  

The half par holes are exactly what makes it such an exciting test.  I have no issues with folks being able to reach the 18th in a 25mph downwind or the 9th in any wind.  We think the USGA is brilliant when they build new tees to provide what TOC has provided for many years, but TOC is not a stern enough test.  Did anyone see Wednesday?  With the opposite wind Zach Johnson barely reached Granny Clark's Wynd!  IMO, players were not able to overwhelm the course with length with the tee additions, controversial as they are, over the past 15 years.  All the strategic elements still had to be navigated.

When I was younger and had not been to TOC and seen the number of Opens I've now seen on television, I might have made this argument, but I guess much like Bobby Jones and others before me, the course grows on you once you understand it more.

But the course was clearly not demolished this week, nor should the perception be that technology is ruining it.  Anyone remember when Curtis Strange shot 62 there in the Dunhill many years ago in calm conditions (you should, he reminded us all of it frequently last weekend)...

[George Pazin]

Terrific post, Brian.

-----

Would it even make sense to try to evaluate TOC without wind?

[Jamie Barber]

One question, did anyone go into Hell bunker? It didn't seem to be in play from the coverage I saw...

[Bill_McBride]

One question, did anyone go into Hell bunker? It didn't seem to be in play from the coverage I saw...

I didn't see anybody.  I also saw a handful play way left to avoid Hell.  Even from the 618 yd tee on the Eden course, Hell is irrelevant - in that wind.  If the wind turns around, ??

I sat in the bleachers for several hours over 3 days of the 2005 Open and never saw one player concerned with Hell.  I guess a new tee at 640 would bring both the Beardies and Hell back into play.........

Even with all that, there were still more pars than birdies on #14 due to the complexities of the green and surrounds.

[Jamie Barber]

Agreed, Just the sadist in me would like to see a few of the big boys in the biggest pit

[Melvyn Morrow]

Bill

Seems you have worked it out (the Form ref), well done

Melvyn

[Jordan Wall]

Was anyone underwhelmed by the Old Course as a British Open site?  Unless the wind is blowing at an unplayable level, it seems like the Old Course is no longer a competitive championship venue.   Of course, that means absolutely nothing in evaluating the architectural merits of the Home of Golf, but a lot of work needs to be done to keep players from demolishing the course.   Relying on the wind alone as a defense is just not enough these days with the technology that has changed the game for the worse. 

Hi hater, was it the course or the fact that a no name won that made it an uninspiring site?

Or, the fact that The Old Course is "too flat"?

Is The Old Course flat??

[Tim Pitner]

I enjoyed this year's Open (although I wish it had been more competitive) and thought St. Andrews held up well to scoring, if that is a concern.  Purely from a viewing perspective, though, I prefer other venues on the rota--Muirfield and Royal St. George's come to mind. 

[Peter Pallotta]

Shivas - really good post there. It describes the situation/course very well, it seems to me, i.e. "No course does a better job, IMO, of blending the mental side of the game with the physical side of the game at the major championship level"....and "TOC is a superstar in terms of making championship-level demands on the players BEFORE THEY EVEN ADDRESS THE BALL!!"

And interesting, isn't it - that for about a hundred years at least, the elements have been there at TOC for such a blending the two aspects of golf....the spirit of the game.

Peter

[Bill_McBride]

Agreed, Just the sadist in me would like to see a few of the big boys in the biggest pit

I've never been in it either, that's why there is a 5th fairway!

[Bill_McBride]

Was anyone underwhelmed by the Old Course as a British Open site?  Unless the wind is blowing at an unplayable level, it seems like the Old Course is no longer a competitive championship venue.   Of course, that means absolutely nothing in evaluating the architectural merits of the Home of Golf, but a lot of work needs to be done to keep players from demolishing the course.   Relying on the wind alone as a defense is just not enough these days with the technology that has changed the game for the worse. 

Hi hater, was it the course or the fact that a no name won that made it an uninspiring site?

Or, the fact that The Old Course is "too flat"?

Is The Old Course flat??

"Is the Old Course flat?"

There is probably no net elevation change from 1st tee to 18th green, but the Old Course is hardly what you would call "flat."

Take a look at the Stroke Saver plan of #5, the first par 5.



There is a 12' deep swale in front of the green.  There is a 10' fall off to the left of the huge double green.  There is a 10' mound on the right crowned with a glorious gorse bush.  There are countless knolls, ridges, hollows, bumps, rolls and mounds in the fairway and rough.  All of this is completely natural and much of it has to be taken into account when planning your next shot.

The only place a lack of flatness occurs is in the first fairway, at least the half of in that half of the double fairway.  Here's the 18th fairway!