[Richard Choi]

I always knew Russell was a sharp guy.

[Anthony Gray]

Well, in defense of brides out there, some golf courses are better as a wedding site than for golf - The Golf Club at Newcastle (WA), for example. It is a fantastic place to hold weddings, with its outstanding views and a lovely facility. Too bad, the golf is absolute snorefest (and they have 36 holes of it!).

I've got a great story of an almost great round at Newcastle in Seattle.  Bill Russell (who is a member there) was looking to get out for an afternoon round.  My brother and I were playing as a two-some and were on the first tee.  Russell rolls up and asks the starter if he can get out.  The starter offers to pair him up with us and Russell takes one look at us and says to the starter "is there anyone on the other course?", the starter says "no" and off he went!

  Hasn't that happened to you several times?

  Anthony

[JC Jones]

Well, in defense of brides out there, some golf courses are better as a wedding site than for golf - The Golf Club at Newcastle (WA), for example. It is a fantastic place to hold weddings, with its outstanding views and a lovely facility. Too bad, the golf is absolute snorefest (and they have 36 holes of it!).

I've got a great story of an almost great round at Newcastle in Seattle.  Bill Russell (who is a member there) was looking to get out for an afternoon round.  My brother and I were playing as a two-some and were on the first tee.  Russell rolls up and asks the starter if he can get out.  The starter offers to pair him up with us and Russell takes one look at us and says to the starter "is there anyone on the other course?", the starter says "no" and off he went!

  Hasn't that happened to you several times?

  Anthony

I've only seen Bill Russell on a golf course once.

[Mike_Young]

For those that think this wedding business is a saving grace......come on.....if it was that lucrative without dues susidizing the banquet rooms and all the BS accounting that GM's gop thru to justify....if it was that lucrative we would have private entities setting up banquet halls for just such occasions.....it makes zero sense....it just happens to be that the F&B guys are usually in charge and it protects their jobs...

[Dan Herrmann]

Mike,
And that's why I fear the wedding biz could really hurt GCA in the next 20 years?  Why build a great golf course when your revenue stream is primarily coming from banquets.

[Mike_Young]

Mike,
And that's why I fear the wedding biz could really hurt GCA in the next 20 years?  Why build a great golf course when your revenue stream is primarily coming from banquets.

Dan, I am saying that usually the "profit" from these wedding is calculated using a n hourly rental rate of the banquet rooms etc....the clubs bears the expense when not in use for all of that footage and utility cost....there is no revenue stream in my opinion....

[Wayne_Kozun]

I was married at a Stanley Thompson course 16 years ago and so far it is sticking.  The club I belong to does host weddings and I don't have a problem with it - some of the guys even use it as a way to justify joining the club - "Honey the golf club would be a great place for our daughter to be married"  Most of the equity members (aka men) at my club never even see the weddings since they play in the mornings and are long gone before the wedding festivities begin, even here in Canada where you can play until 9 pm in June and July.  But if you are playing late on a Saturday afternoon and hit your shot long and right at the 19th hole then you could wreak havoc with the wedding party

[Charlie Goerges]

  I've never been married at a golf course.

  Anthony

Statistically speaking, you will be.

[Kevin Pallier]

Speaking from an Aust. POV.

As someone who has seen their golf club go from an old but functional small clubhouse to a monstrosity fit with function rooms + accommodation etc. they aint always what they are made out to be. Obviously a lot of factors are involved in the success of the facility eg: management / cost / marketing but in smple terms = bigger does not necessarily mean better.

[Richard Choi]

I think the business calculation should be IF the golf course wasn't there at all, would the wedding/event bookings support the facilities by itself. If the answer is yes, having the facilities is probably a good bonus to the golf course. If the answer is no, you have no business building that facility in the first place.

The golf club at Newcastle does very good wedding business because the facility and the location would be a homerun for weddings even without the golf course.

[JWinick]

Funny story.... Was at a wedding recently in Denver with the ceremony and party on a golf course.   The ceremony was at 6:00 PM so there were still players on the golf course.   After watching a couple make an 11 and an 8 on a hole, I watched the ceremony becoming official.   Given the position of the ceremony, a snap hook by a golfer would have taken down both the bride and groom!

[Anthony Gray]

For those that think this wedding business is a saving grace......come on.....if it was that lucrative without dues susidizing the banquet rooms and all the BS accounting that GM's gop thru to justify....if it was that lucrative we would have private entities setting up banquet halls for just such occasions.....it makes zero sense....it just happens to be that the F&B guys are usually in charge and it protects their jobs...

  Mike....will you be my best man next time? Bill McBride said he's busy.

  Anthony

 

[Bruce Katona]

Dan: To answer your question from yesterday....GCA and F&B in the clubhouse are like mixing apples and kiwi's.....nothing to do with one another.

Your course designer is not your clubhouse architect or vice versa.

If you want to be in the catering business, have fun.  Golf course operations and catering are two different business models that do overlap at clubs....

When the demographic models for most clubs are run, they look more at the golf side of the business.  Catering/event planning happen many times after-the-fact as a result of " we bult this now how do we try to make this building break even?"

[JMEvensky]

When the demographic models for most clubs are run, they look more at the golf side of the business.  Catering/event planning happen many times after-the-fact as a result of " we bult this now how do we try to make this building break even?"

The problems start when the golf budget is used to "make this building break even".Everyone thinks that non-golf revenue can be increased if they just spend a little more capital in the clubhouse.Frequently,that capital comes out of the maintenance budget.

[Jeffrey Conners]

A few years ago, I was invited to a co-worker's wedding.  The reception was at my club.  I didn't like this co-worker that much and didn't want to waste a Saturday afternoon, so I declined.  I forgot all about the wedding until I was playing the ninth hole back towards the clubhouse and saw the bride and groom posing for pictures.  I had to ditch my ball and sneak around the opposite side of the clubhouse to the parking lot to avoid being seen.

[BCrosby]

Bill Brightly has got this nailed.

Like it or not, over the last 50 years clubs have counted on certain revenues from banquets and carts. Banquets are the single most profitable revenue source at most clubs. Historically they underwrote all sorts of other expenses. Those revenues are in steep decline at the clubs I know something about. These are all well established, well capitalized clubs.

It is a big problem. Cuts will be forced in golf maintenance, food services, health facilities, swimming, etc. Across the board.

Worse, I don't see the situation turning around for several years. It will begin to show quickly at most clubs, particularly so with respect to gc maintenance. To paraphrase Bette Davis, buckle up your seat belt. It's going to be bumpy ride.

Bob

 

[Greg Tallman]

  I've never been married long due to time spent on the golf course.

  Anthony

Is this what you meant to say?

[Greg Tallman]

You can be married on our 17th or 18th greens.

Now before I get crucified you should understand that to do so you must buy every green fee that day in addition to the other asssociated costs.

So if one would like a world class wedding where they play 18 holes and finish by hitting the tee shot to the 17th green in front of the wedding party, enter a private residence to prepare, putt out in their wedding attire and take their vows on the green as the wedding party observes from the beach... we can arrange that. No takers as yet, but then again the price is not really user friendly.

Anthony, any interest in such a ceremony?

[Jeff Goldman]

Weddings and golf cart revenues are the dirty little addictions of most US country clubs. Try doing a budget without them...

Bill:

That is precisely the backwards thinking that gets everyone in trouble.  You only need the weddings in your budget because your clubhouse is too damned big and the golf course can't pay for it.  If you hadn't built it in the first place, you wouldn't need the weddings.

Tom,

If somebody else built it, in, say, 1923, then you're probably stuck with it, and the banquets   . 

[Anthony Gray]

You can be married on our 17th or 18th greens.

Now before I get crucified you should understand that to do so you must buy every green fee that day in addition to the other asssociated costs.

So if one would like a world class wedding where they play 18 holes and finish by hitting the tee shot to the 17th green in front of the wedding party, enter a private residence to prepare, putt out in their wedding attire and take their vows on the green as the wedding party observes from the beach... we can arrange that. No takers as yet, but then again the price is not really user friendly.

Anthony, any interest in such a ceremony?

  IN

[PThomas]

Bolingbrook public GC in a far southern Chicago was built about 5 years ago with a monstorus clubhouse for exactly this purpose...but i have no idea how much business of this type they are getting

i do know the course itself isnt too good

[Chris Flamion]

Bolingbrook public GC in a far southern Chicago was built about 5 years ago with a monstorus clubhouse for exactly this purpose...but i have no idea how much business of this type they are getting

i do know the course itself isnt too good

Not as much as they would like.  The rates have gone down significantly according to local brides.

The course however is fantastic..........it even has an island green.........oh wait wrong website.

[Greg Tallman]

Mike,
And that's why I fear the wedding biz could really hurt GCA in the next 20 years?  Why build a great golf course when your revenue stream is primarily coming from banquets.

Dan, I am saying that usually the "profit" from these wedding is calculated using a n hourly rental rate of the banquet rooms etc....the clubs bears the expense when not in use for all of that footage and utility cost....there is no revenue stream in my opinion....

Accurate. Many of our weddings are held after normal clubhouse hours and thus a site fee applies. This is in addition to the resort priced F&B and decoration costs supporting what Mike says building it for this purpose alone does not generally pencil out. Mush of our prep is done when the clubhouse is in full functioning mode and the day staff (resort) prep for the evening function using energy and equipment not purchased solely for the banqueting event. That is to say we borrow from the resort operation and still charge a site fee for events. Would not want to work out a biusiness model where a site on an attractive location was created for the stand alone purpose of banquest and weddings and woulod rival a club/resort facility in terms of atmosphere and infratstructure.

Note: I will spare no expense in preparing for Anthony's next wedding and everyone is invited.  Hope that is OK with you Dr. Gray.

[Anthony Gray]

Mike,
And that's why I fear the wedding biz could really hurt GCA in the next 20 years?  Why build a great golf course when your revenue stream is primarily coming from banquets.

Dan, I am saying that usually the "profit" from these wedding is calculated using a n hourly rental rate of the banquet rooms etc....the clubs bears the expense when not in use for all of that footage and utility cost....there is no revenue stream in my opinion....

Accurate. Many of our weddings are held after normal clubhouse hours and thus a site fee applies. This is in addition to the resort priced F&B and decoration costs supporting what Mike says building it for this purpose alone does not generally pencil out. Mush of our prep is done when the clubhouse is in full functioning mode and the day staff (resort) prep for the evening function using energy and equipment not purchased solely for the banqueting event. That is to say we borrow from the resort operation and still charge a site fee for events. Would not want to work out a biusiness model where a site on an attractive location was created for the stand alone purpose of banquest and weddings and woulod rival a club/resort facility in terms of atmosphere and infratstructure.

Note: I will spare no expense in preparing for Anthony's next wedding and everyone is invited.  Hope that is OK with you Dr. Gray.

  Greg,

  I kinda did get married there.

  Anthony

 

[archie_struthers]

 


The question poses some interesting architecture questions in that the nicest , most highly regarded clubs can charge a premium for their banquets , much like their golf.  

A well established club with lots of name recognition will do more business than a less prestigious club , assuming equal talent in the clulinary and management departments....Thus good architecture breeds success in the wedding business also

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