Should the Road Hole Be Restored?

[JNC Lyon]

During the telecast the last few days, Peter Alliss talked several times about how the Road Hole played 20-30 years ago.  From what he said, it sounds like the hole has changed dramatically, particularly around the green.  He discussed how the Road Hole bunker was much more severe a few decades ago.  He also said that the road, path, and bank long of the green have a totally different character now.  The road was filled with random rocks, pebbles, and hoof prints, and the bank leading up to the green was covered in footholes.  He said that a player who hit a shot onto the road, would well to make 6.

From his description, it sounded like the Road Hole has been watered down in the last few years.  Should Links Trust restore the Road Hole to its former glory?  Or does the current state of the hole allow for more interesting and viable recovery options?

[Adam Lawrence]

I was, I must say, very surprised at how comfortable Tiger's flop back onto the green from the grass between road and wall was. I guess the lob wedge is part of that, but I'm not sure whether the grass is wider than it used to be.

[Mark Chaplin]

JNC the R&A do not own the course its the Links Trust.

[Tom_Doak]

Everything I've read indicates it was way harder back in the day.  Like it needs to be any harder than it is now!

I can't believe all the carnage there this week.  If the intent of the tee change was to bring the road more into play, it sure seems like they succeeded ... although for the most part, the problems occurred because so many players are aggressive with their second shots.

I was surprised no one in the booth today asked Watson about going onto the road in '84.  Maybe he's still touchy about that.

[JNC Lyon]

JNC the R&A do not own the course its the Links Trust.

Thanks, I figured I had messed that one up.  I'll edit it above.

[Jeff Tang]

What about all that rough to the left of the fairway on 17, has that always been there?  I don't remember in the past it being that tight on the left or the rough as severe if there was any.

[Tom_Doak]

I believe the hole is narrower down the left, but not way narrower ... you should watch the tapes from 1984, as I remember Seve kept hitting it over in there, until the last day.  The rough was not nearly as severe for that tournament, but maybe they hadn't had as wet of a year.

[Brian_Ewen]

I was surprised how many shots that seemed destined for the road hole bunker, didnt end up in there .

[CJ Carder]

I should start by saying that I love the Road Hole - it's one of the few holes in modern golf that still makes players think about where to place their approaches and how aggressive to be.  That said, how many birdies were made there this week?  Is that number in the single digits?  Sure, one might say that making a 4 ought to count as a birdie, and I'm by no means implying that having less than 200 yards into a green gives one the right to have a shot at the flag, but it seemed to me that it was next to impossible to get within 20 feet of the flag (save for Rory on day 1).  In the end, I was also surprised watching the ball track mechanism how few people seemed to try and hit a power cut off the tee to try and finish on the right side of the fairway and a better angle into the green.

[Mike Cirba]

John,

Really good question.

I think the Road Hole bunker should be restored to its former fearsome deep and narrow self, and balls should still be able to easily run in there, because I think it's the key, critical, hazard feature on the hole, and the reason so many balls end up on the road.

That said, I'd also only recommend that with the caveat that the fairway also gets restored all the way down the right side, because THAT is the key strategic area where one used to be able to attempt to drive to to have an approach down the length of the green.

I'm not opposed to the new added length...the distance these guys hit the ball is simply overwhelming our traditional courses and if it puts a longer club into the player's hands on what should play as a long par four, then that's the price we have to pay for the failure of the governing bodies to put some reasonable governor on the balls and implements the past 20 years.

[Philippe Binette]

I really wonder if players these days really have a good strategic mind...

I remember reading a book by Nicklaus describing how I played the last round of his major win and it was just strategy...

to thiink that in the last few majors you see that a guys who is second or third would often win by shooting even in the last round is like.. man manage your game for heaven sakes....


On the Old Course, for those players holes (5,9,10,14,15) should give them 2-3 birdies in the round, call it 2 under
then (1,3,7,8,12) are reasonable birdie chances but easy pars by playing smart...

so that leaves you 8 holes, to play in 2 over to shoot 72 if you don't make any putts...

that's how Watson played Turnberry last year... He knew he had 2-3 birdies a round, just minimize the bogeys.

road hole: driver, punch to the front of the green, give yourself a 10 footer for par...

avoid the big number... Oosthuizen had no double or worse this week, just like Watson last year until the playoff...

Casey 2-triples this week... 5, potentially 6 shots right there

[JNC Lyon]

John,

Really good question.

I think the Road Hole bunker should be restored to its former fearsome deep and narrow self, and balls should still be able to easily run in there, because I think it's the key, critical, hazard feature on the hole, and the reason so many balls end up on the road.

That said, I'd also only recommend that with the caveat that the fairway also gets restored all the way down the right side, because THAT is the key strategic area where one used to be able to attempt to drive to to have an approach down the length of the green.

I'm not opposed to the new added length...the distance these guys hit the ball is simply overwhelming our traditional courses and if it puts a longer club into the player's hands on what should play as a long par four, then that's the price we have to pay for the failure of the governing bodies to put some reasonable governor on the balls and implements the past 20 years.

How about restoring the road to its original condition.  I was just really fascinated by Alliss' description of the road and its terrifying nature.  Imagine if today's pros had to play around hoof prints!  This sort of restoration would require more restraint of maintenance than addition of it.

I agree with you about the new tees.  I have no problem with long par fours playing as, well, long par fours!  That hole is great because it requires a long club for the approach.

[Sean_A]

John,

Really good question.

I think the Road Hole bunker should be restored to its former fearsome deep and narrow self, and balls should still be able to easily run in there, because I think it's the key, critical, hazard feature on the hole, and the reason so many balls end up on the road.

That said, I'd also only recommend that with the caveat that the fairway also gets restored all the way down the right side, because THAT is the key strategic area where one used to be able to attempt to drive to to have an approach down the length of the green.

I'm not opposed to the new added length...the distance these guys hit the ball is simply overwhelming our traditional courses and if it puts a longer club into the player's hands on what should play as a long par four, then that's the price we have to pay for the failure of the governing bodies to put some reasonable governor on the balls and implements the past 20 years.

Mike

I disagree.  I like the gathering aspect, but tpward the rear of the bunker like it is now is wonderful.  The harder and potentially much more creative shot comes when guys have the RHB between them and the flag and it also brings the Road more into play.  The only time the RHB was nasty (no mater how deep it was/is) was when guys essentially didn't have a play (up against the face) - not much entertainment there.  I love the double threat of the RHB as a place to avoid, but even worse, don't get caught behind it.  Of course, this all stems from the assumption that the road (the third threat) is the WORST place to be.  That is only true some of the time - its still pot luck and the wind is still an important aspect of the recovery.  The vagaries of luck, both good and bad, is incredible on this hole - even after a picture drive.  Yet lost a lost ball is not in the picture - something to ponder on. 

To answer your question John, no, I don't think there should be hoof prints in the road mainly because horses don't use the road.  Its a road and it serves a function which is to get from A to B.  There is no need to go aboout damaging a road for the sake of a golf tournament.  When I put it like that your proposal sounds mad!!!

Ciao

[Niall C]

I was surprised how many shots that seemed destined for the road hole bunker, didnt end up in there .

Brian

Good point. It certainly seemed that a lot more balls missed the bunker than went in. Having said that, I wonder if that was much relief for these guys as I think some of them had more trouble playing the shot around or over the bunker than they did playing out of it. Does anyone know if they reshaped the bunker surround in any way or is it as its always been ?

Niall

[Steve Kline]

I should start by saying that I love the Road Hole - it's one of the few holes in modern golf that still makes players think about where to place their approaches and how aggressive to be.  That said, how many birdies were made there this week?  Is that number in the single digits?  Sure, one might say that making a 4 ought to count as a birdie, and I'm by no means implying that having less than 200 yards into a green gives one the right to have a shot at the flag, but it seemed to me that it was next to impossible to get within 20 feet of the flag (save for Rory on day 1).  In the end, I was also surprised watching the ball track mechanism how few people seemed to try and hit a power cut off the tee to try and finish on the right side of the fairway and a better angle into the green.

Have you tried hitting a power cut with the wind blowing right to left 20-30 mph?

[Adam Clayman]

Niall. I was told that bunker was re-built just a fortnight prior to this championship.  With the new TV contract and all the revenue being generated I don't see how these guys will ever go backwards in their manicuring the place to near perfection. Who wants their Old course perfect?

[Melvyn Morrow]

In a word "YES"

Melvyn

[JNC Lyon]

John,

Really good question.

I think the Road Hole bunker should be restored to its former fearsome deep and narrow self, and balls should still be able to easily run in there, because I think it's the key, critical, hazard feature on the hole, and the reason so many balls end up on the road.

That said, I'd also only recommend that with the caveat that the fairway also gets restored all the way down the right side, because THAT is the key strategic area where one used to be able to attempt to drive to to have an approach down the length of the green.

I'm not opposed to the new added length...the distance these guys hit the ball is simply overwhelming our traditional courses and if it puts a longer club into the player's hands on what should play as a long par four, then that's the price we have to pay for the failure of the governing bodies to put some reasonable governor on the balls and implements the past 20 years.

Mike

I disagree.  I like the gathering aspect, but tpward the rear of the bunker like it is now is wonderful.  The harder and potentially much more creative shot comes when guys have the RHB between them and the flag and it also brings the Road more into play.  The only time the RHB was nasty (no mater how deep it was/is) was when guys essentially didn't have a play (up against the face) - not much entertainment there.  I love the double threat of the RHB as a place to avoid, but even worse, don't get caught behind it.  Of course, this all stems from the assumption that the road (the third threat) is the WORST place to be.  That is only true some of the time - its still pot luck and the wind is still an important aspect of the recovery.  The vagaries of luck, both good and bad, is incredible on this hole - even after a picture drive.  Yet lost a lost ball is not in the picture - something to ponder on. 

To answer your question John, no, I don't think there should be hoof prints in the road mainly because horses don't use the road.  Its a road and it serves a function which is to get from A to B.  There is no need to go aboout damaging a road for the sake of a golf tournament.  When I put it like that your proposal sounds mad!!!

Ciao

Sean,

I definitely hear you on restoring the road.  The whole charm of the Old Course, and other great Scottish courses, is that the golf course just keeps whatever surroundings there are and uses them as hazards.  North Berwick and Prestwick use pre-existing walls to produce wonderful golf holes, but these holes would seem contrived if the walls were created specifically for the golf course.  I think the same might be true of the Road.

I haven't really made up my mind either way.  I think the Road and surrounds looked a little too pristine during the Open, but a full restoration might not be the answer.

[Brian_Ewen]

In a word "YES"

Melvyn

But yes to what restoration ?

1927 ?

[Marty Bonnar]

JNC the R&A do not own the course its the Links Trust.

Mark,
The Links Trust only manage the Courses on behalf of the guid toonsfolk o' St Andras. I could be wrong, (nah!) but I think Fife Coonsul,  as natural descendants of the old Town Council now actually 'own' the land.
cheers,
MB.

[Pete_Pittock]

Thinking about unrestoring the road you must consider the form of play. In match play it doesn't matter how it plays because it is only a single hole at stake. In stoke play you can't make it a monster which causes too many lost strokes for one indiscretion. That said, cobblestones could be a good solution as they would retain the character of the course and the town. As a side effect it could bring the rut iron back into production. Auchterlonie's could make a tidy sum manufacturing and selling/renting them.

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