Suspending Play Due to Wind -- Are The Rules of Golf Different for Tournaments?

[Tom_Doak]

Since the other thread(s) have devolved, and I'd like to get back on topic, I'm starting over, here.

What I would like to know is this:  what are the actual Rules of Golf which relate to this?  So far all anyone has talked about are the instructions from Rules officials out on the course, and/or the default standards that the USGA and R & A use ... i.e. too many balls moving on the greens.  But what is the actual Rule they are using?


I was not in St. Andrews yesterday at all, I was safely indoors at home, so obviously I could not truly judge the conditions at the moment play was suspended.  However, I need to understand this better than I apparently do.

My objection to the suspension of play was based on three factors:

1)  Despite the presence of 30 tv cameras across the course, ESPN only showed one incident that was causing the suspension, and in that one it appeared Mr. Duffner was not proceeding according to the Rules.

2)  I have never been aware of anything in the Rules of Golf which says that under certain conditions [other than dangerous conditions], play should be halted.  It seems to me that the Rules are written very clearly and specifically to AVOID play having to be stopped.  The rule on the putting green is that if your ball moves after you've marked it, you play it from where it came to rest, no penalty.  There are penalties if the ball moves after address, but it's always been clear in these circumstances that you are best not addressing the ball.  That all seems to be designed to deal with the situation the players faced.

3)  This very situation happened last year, in the televised event at Cape Kidnappers.  In that case, there were only four golfers, all playing together.  They played the par-5 15th hole in severe winds but downwind -- Sean O'Hair hit a 5-iron second shot through the green on a 650-yard hole -- but they all managed to finish that one.  Then they got on the 16th tee, facing three holes straight back into the same wind.  There were two lost balls off the tee, and all four struggled mightily up the hole -- and then, before they were even all on the green, they suspended play until the next morning because balls on the green might move!  

It was clear on that day they just didn't want to be embarrassed up those last two holes.  There was no rest of the field to protect.  But is that now going to be the standard for the Open Championship?  That's what worries me -- the lowering of standards.


I UNDERSTAND that players in these conditions feel like they are being screwed and feel that it's unfair to make them play on.  Pat Burke, in the other thread, told a cringeworthy story of what happened to him in a previous Open, being penalized twice on the same green, and it was hard not to sympathize with his point of view.  The only thing is, back then, the situation he faced was deemed not enough to suspend play.  And now it is.

So, I'm not trying to take a side here.  I don't need people to agree with me or not.  I just want to know what the Rules are.  Thank you.

[Jim_Kennedy]

33-2d

Course Unplayable

If the Committee or its authorized representative considers that for any reason the course is not in a playable condition or that there are circumstances that render the proper playing of the game impossible, it may, in match play or stroke play, order a temporary suspension of play or, in stroke play, declare play null and void and cancel all scores for the round in question. When a round is canceled, all penalties incurred in that round are canceled.

[Tom_Doak]

Jim:

Thanks for that.  Now some more points:

1)  That's entirely subjective and open to creeping standards of fairness.

2)  There is the old saying that there are two kinds of golf ... regular golf and tournament golf.  But here is a REAL difference.  If you and I are just out playing, there is no committee to suspend play.  We just have to proceed, or quit.  And the Rules allow us to play on, in the case of wind.  There were several comments on the other thread that "well, you probably didn't play by the Rules if you finished in such conditions," but my contention is that you CAN.  If you can't, then the Rules are out the window, and I don't hear any of our Rules experts stepping up to that argument.

[Niall C]

Tom

One thing we can agree on is that playing in the regular monthly medal, you don't have the same level of officialdom or scrutiny that you have in the Open, nor do the players no the rules as well as the pro's. I'm absolutely certain that many club golfers in this part of the world have played and finished in club comps in similiar conditions to yesterday. However if they were under the same level of scrutiny as the pro's are then I bet you could add a couple of shots to their scores because of rules infringements that they either weren't aware of or because players took the attitude of just getting on with it.

Yesterday was one of those freak occurences which have happened before and will happen again, no need to get too worked up about it.

Niall

[Tom_Doak]

Niall:

I am worked up about it because I've always been told that everything is covered in the Rules.  In this case, the Rules seem to make an exception for tournament golf.

[Niall C]

Tom

If because of the rules players can't help but repeatedly incur penalties then it becomes a nonsense. Maybe its not in the rules to stop the comp but its because of the rules that the comp is supended, call that a local rule if you like. I just don't see the problem.

Niall

[Jim_Kennedy]

Tom,
That particular rule has been around for at least 110 years. I would think it's been used infrequently over the years, and the 'creep' is due to maintenance and money. 

If we were out playing we probably would be enjoying the conditions and heckling each other when one of our shots took off with the breeze, or a putt was blown to a screeching halt several feet from the hole. We could discontinue the match if we had serious money on it, but otherwise there wouldn't be any good reason to do that.


edit: I don't think it's a tournament exception. If one player wanted to stop because of the conditions they could bring it up to the golf committee. If that wasn't feasible at the moment the match could continue with the possibility of the results being nullified later if the committee chose that option.

[Wade Schueneman]

Did it get windier yesterday at TOC than it did at Birdkdale in 2008?  

I do understand the players' frustration.  For them it is not just a game, and they can not simply shrug off the fact that anyone with a pm tee time yesterday surrendered roughly 5 shots to the rest of the field.  It will be interesting on Sunday evening to see how many players that finish in the top 20 played on Friday afternoon.  My guess is very few.

[Chris DeNigris]

Tom,

Not sure there's a big difference between yesterday and frequent stoppages due to too much water on the greens. Both have an element of subjectivity and both seem to be in conformance with the rules. I haven't read thru all the threads on this breezy topic but it doesn't seem to be the type of situation that would lend itself to any real degredation of the game.

Confirmed purists will object but that's their job.

[TEPaul]

Tom D:

Your thread and initial post ask some very good questions and I'm delighted you made them.

There probably really are differences between the use and application of some Rules between recreational golf and tournament golf. Of course the Rulesmakers (the R&A and the USGA) would prefer all golfers to play completely by their Rules of Golf but the reality is they realize many don't for various reasons.

Generally that is not the case in tournament golf. The Rulesmakers do expect that tournament officials (within the Rules of Golf they are referred to and formalized as "The Committee" (sometimes called the "Tournament Committee")). The Committee responsibilities are essentially contained in Rules 33 and 34 and they are supplemented and cross-referenced in Appendix I and II in the Rules Book with such things as Local Rules, Special Rules and the Conditions of Competition. In many ways over the years the latter have provided the mechanism for new rules and rule-thinking to be used in golf by the adoption (or not) of them by committees and tournament committees. If over time they appear to be used widely enough they tend to find their way into the actual playing Rules of Golf (Rules 1-34 now).

The Rulesmakers (the USGA and R&A) have an interesting way of dealing with golfers and tournament committees who they feel are not conducting competitions or playing golf completely by the Rules of Golf. And that is if they are asked a Rules question in such circumstances they merely refuse to answer the question under the logic and philosophy that if someone or a golf tournament is not being conducted completely under the Rules of Golf they are not really playing the game or playing it properly.  

I call Rules 33 and 34 the "Committee Rules" and as such they are generally not referred to by recreational golfers because those Rules do not generally concern them in the course of play on the golf course.

The concept of the "Committee" in golf and tournament golf is actually only a little over 110 years old and it has definitely evolved over time. But The Committee really does have a a good deal of power as well as a certain amount of latitude to make decisions regarding the nature and course of play of a tournament basically only providing they do not violate an actual Rule of Golf.

Such things as how and why to suspend play is just one of many of those responsibilities and decision-making latitude. The R&A and USGA offer various recommendations in that vein; an example is the wording Jim Kennedy just posted from Rule 33. The USGA and R&A also publishes and offers a booklet known as "How To Conduct a Competition" that is basically for golf administrators and tournament officials. I suppose for that reason most golfers are not aware of it or familiar with it.

[Wade Whitehead]

Tom:

Thanks for refocusing the topic.

There ARE two sets of rules, if only because certain ones are really only invoked in tournament play.  I can't recall the last time I encountered a Temporary Immovable Obstruction in a casual round but watch Tour guys drop away from grandstands, scoreboards, and cabling every week.

To Jim Kennedy's early post: It's fascinating that scores on holes already completed can be canceled.  Could the Open Committee have decided that the second round, including scores already posted, didn't even exist and should be replayed?  I may be missing something here but it's how I read 33-2d.

WW

[Tom_Doak]

wwhitehead:  Your case is different; if there WAS a temporary obstruction out there when we played, we would do the same thing the Tour players do.

TEPaul:  Thanks for your response.  I get most of it.  There's still one question I don't get:  if you and I were playing a match under the Rules of Golf, and it got as windy as it did yesterday, would we have had no choice but to suspend our match?  Could we really NOT have continued playing under the Rules?

[TEPaul]

"Could the Open Committee have decided that the second round, including scores already posted, didn't even exist and should be replayed?  I may be missing something here but it's how I read 33-2d."


WW:

Yes, Rule 33-2d (course unplayable) actually gives "the Committee" the right and latitude to cancel a round. That kind of thing is generally not a consideration unless half or something less than half the field are able to finish a round in a day due to various weather problems rendering a course unplayable. Apparently the basic thinking behind that Rule and latitude is that as much as possible the field should compete under fairly similar conditions and circumstances.

[TEPaul]

"There's still one question I don't get:  if you and I were playing a match under the Rules of Golf, and it got as windy as it did yesterday, would we have had no choice but to suspend our match?  Could we really NOT have continued playing under the Rules?"


TomD:

That is another very good question on your part. On that one I might defer to someone on here who has more tournament and tournament administration experience than I do even though I've had a lot; someone like John Vanderborght who pretty much does this all the time.

In the meantime, I would say that a "Committee" (Tournament Committee) might provide a match or match play a bit more latitude to decide to suspend or continue play in various conditions that do not involve some "dangerous situation." Nevertheless, that decision too is completely within the Rules purview of the "Committee" to make that decision however they see fit.

The philosophy behind that is they consider that a "match" and the opponents in it are right there to observe and protect and control their own rights and destiny, unlike in Stroke play where "competitors" cannot do that.

For that reason, generally Rules Officials, other than "Referees" (which are quite rare in even tournament golf), are encouraged under the Rules of Golf to not enter into a match other than for a violation of Rule 1-3 (Agreement to Waive Rules) or Rule 6-7 (Undue Delay; Slow Play).

[JohnV]

wwhitehead:  Your case is different; if there WAS a temporary obstruction out there when we played, we would do the same thing the Tour players do.

TEPaul:  Thanks for your response.  I get most of it.  There's still one question I don't get:  if you and I were playing a match under the Rules of Golf, and it got as windy as it did yesterday, would we have had no choice but to suspend our match?  Could we really NOT have continued playing under the Rules?

Tom, Under Rule 6-8, two players playing a match can choose to discontinue play on their own as long as the overall competition is not delayed.  In stroke play, a player could discontinue play on his own as long as he reports immediately to the Committee.  But, if the Committee doesn't believe his reason for discontinuing play is valid, he would be disqualified.

If the Committee suspends play, you must stop.  If it is for a non-dangerous situation, you could finish the hole, but then stop.  In match play, the Committee might not be so quick to suspend play due to wind as the players do have more options.

As Tom and Jim have said, Rule 33-2d is what gives the Committee the right to suspend play.  The reasons for suspension are vague because conditions vary everywhere.  The obvious one is lightning which is cause for immediate suspension, but even that can be vague as depending on weather forecasts and information available, the choice can be made to leave players playing even though lightning may be visible.  I remember on the Futures Tour we once kept players playing for 4 hours while an obvious thunderstorm moved through 20 miles south of us.  Our lightning detector was recording 100s of strikes an hour, but while the players could see and hear them, they were never really near us and where moving away from us.

Darkness is the one where the Committee must make a tough choice.  When is it too dark to play?  What do we do when a player wants to stop?  It sometimes depends on where we are in the tournament.  For example, last week at the US Women's Open due to the storm on Friday, we couldn't finish the third round on Saturday.  Since we knew we'd be coming back on Sunday to finish it, no matter what, the horns were blown a little earlier than they would have been if the last group was on 17 and could get to the 18th tee.  We wanted to make sure that every player felt there was still enough light to finish the hole they were on and not leave ball markers or tees on the course for the ground crew to deal with.  In other cases, I've seen players finish with headlights on the green to complete a round or a tournament.

The other easy decision when the greens start to flood, especially around the hole.  We usually try squeegeeing the greens, but at some point we might have to surrender.

Wind is tougher, but if the balls are moving due to the wind playing under the Rules becomes difficult.  

You said the player can avoid grounding his club, but if the ball gets moved by the wind and pushed into the club which stops or deflects it, it would be penalty under Rule 19-2.  How can a player hit a shot when this is a possibility?  Also, if he can't replace his ball without it being blown away, it gets very difficult to proceed.

Do I think that the standard is being lowered by what happened yesterday?  No, I have faith that the R&A Rule Committee felt it not a playable condition on the holes at the end of the loop.  Did they have a choice? Yes, but they also want to make sure that the players do have a reasonable opportunity to play the shot from where they hit it and not 10 or 20 yards away because a gust of wind moved it.

[Tom_Doak]

John:

Thanks for your long and detailed reply.

Obviously, it's a judgment call when to suspend play.  We all know that there will be some point at which play cannot go on, and it's a very tough decision for the committee when to draw that line.  As for yesterday, I wasn't there, so I can't say.  But I do think the trend is that the officials' threshold for stopping play is lower than it used to be ... and I think that's because the players have pushed the issue by dragging their heels.

But, I think the true answer to my question is ultimately unsatisfying.  It seems to me that it's POSSIBLE to keep playing under the Rules during strong winds such as yesterday, but that the possibility of unwarranted penalties comes into play.  So they stop, even when we would play on.

[Dan_Callahan]

Suspending play at the Old Course because of heavy winds seems to leave only a very small window through which the course can fit as a relevant tournament course. Because as we saw on Thursday, a calm day yields rounds so low that calls for a "hardening" of the course quickly follow. But when play becomes truly difficult due to an element that was/is a considered factor in the design and maintenance of the fairways and greens, the players cry "unfair" and run home to their mommies. So under what circumstances is the Old Course now a stern but fair test? With winds in the 10-15 mph range, plus a little cold (but not too cold) and a little wet (but not too wet)?

It all just seems silly. Play the f'ing tournament and deal with it. I guarantee that if it was a bunch of amateurs out there who waited in line and paid to play, you couldn't drag them off the course with a bulldozer. In fact, I'd be disappointed as hell if I traveled all the way to Scotland, teed off in the exact same conditions we saw on Friday, and had some old dudes in suits come out to say play is suspended. Absent some serious lightning, I'd be inclined to flip them off (politely, of course) and head to the next tee.

[JohnV]

I guarantee that if it was a bunch of amateurs out there who waited in line and paid to play, you couldn't drag them off the course with a bulldozer. In fact, I'd be disappointed as hell if I traveled all the way to Scotland, teed off in the exact same conditions we saw on Friday, and had some old dudes in suits come out to say play is suspended. Absent some serious lightning, I'd be inclined to flip them off (politely, of course) and head to the next tee.

And most of them aren't concerned about playing under the Rules of Golf.  Championship golf is different and until you and a whole lot of others on this site realize that, you won't get it.

[JohnV]

John:

Thanks for your long and detailed reply.

Obviously, it's a judgment call when to suspend play.  We all know that there will be some point at which play cannot go on, and it's a very tough decision for the committee when to draw that line.  As for yesterday, I wasn't there, so I can't say.  But I do think the trend is that the officials' threshold for stopping play is lower than it used to be ... and I think that's because the players have pushed the issue by dragging their heels.

Tom, I don't think that committees have lowered the threshold in general.  I know, from Mike Davis' comments before the US Open that he was setting the threshold pretty high.  I have no reason to believe the R&A sets it any lower.

The one thing that has been lowered by the PGA Tour is the when to play lift, clean and place.  I think they have gone way to far on that one, but not on suspending play.  Honestly, how many tournaments can you name that have been suspended for anything other than lightning or darkness over the last 15 years?  This Open and the one in 1998 at Birkdale are the only ones I can remember.  And from the comments of some players, the conditions were still nearly as tough when they restarted.

[Dan_Callahan]

Hi John,

I'm not an idiot. I get it. The rules in this area aren't all that tough to understand. It is a completely subjective standard. Which means that two reasonable people could look at the same set of facts and arrive at different conclusions. In my opinion, based on what I saw on ESPN's awesome million hours of coverage, the conditions on Friday did not warrant suspension of play. It's not like they could show evidence of balls rolling unassisted all over the greens. Is a single gust that causes one ball to (maybe) move enough to postone play, thereby requiring some to finish their rounds in the morning of the next day? I'm of the opinion that professional golfers are moving the game closer and closer to a standard of perfect conditions ... smooth greens, pristine bunkers, uniform rough. This was just one more example of that. Very disappointing.

[Bill_McBride]

I think this points out the vast chasm between playing casual golf and playing tournament golf for high stakes.

Yes, there is subjectivity involved in applying Rule 33-2d, but that's why there is a Committee.

[TEPaul]

"It's not like they could show evidence of balls rolling unassisted all over the greens. Is a single gust that causes one ball to (maybe) move enough to postone play, thereby requiring some to finish their rounds in the morning of the next day?"


Dan Callahan:

Do you actually know there was only a single incident of a ball at rest moved by the wind yesterday? I didn't watch the entire telecast yesterday by a long shot but is anyone aware that the Committee mentioned on the telecast how many incidences of that there were?

I've certainly never spoken to anyone on the R&A Open Tournament Committee about what their policy is in this context but like most tournaments I've been involved with as an official and as part of a tournament committee we don't exactly go out and poll players about what they think we should do; we basically just watch what is happening with golf balls in something like excessive wind and make our decision on that fact alone.

[JohnV]

Dan Callahan,

According to the article on the R&A's Open App on my iPhone, David Rickman, the R&A's Director of Rules said, "Golf balls were starting to move on a number of greens at the far end of the course and we had no option but to suspend play.  The wind has dropped to a level where we are comfortable restarting play and we will continue to monitor wind speeds and their effect on play."

So, in spite of "ESPN's awesome million hours of coverage" there were probably a few more instances than they chose to document.

I can assure you that they wouldn't suspend play because one ball moved.  We had a two or three that I heard about at the US Open one afternoon (can't remember which day it was) and the only thing that was said was that the referees should monitor the situation and let Mike Davis know if it was an ongoing problem.

The last thing that any Committee wants to do is suspend play.  It screws up all the schedules.  Look at last week at the Women's Open.  The thunderstorm that stopped play on Friday messed up the rest of the weekend and forced play into groups of three while messing with TV schedules.

[Bill Brightly]

Watching on TV it was clear to me that the rules official REALLY did not want to suspend play. Thanks to John, Tom and others  for explaining the rules, I know I learned something that I did not know before.