Are you kidding me? Play suspended for wind?

[Jon Heise]

This is probably the whiney-est thread ever.

[Matthew Runde]

Oh how the mighty have fallen, worst still how The Open is being disrespected by its own Governing Body. They so love tinkering pity common sense has not prevailed re controlling technology, but then stop The Open due to the wind. Never heard the like, how far have we fallen, can’t walk can’t judge distances, now can’t play in the rain - Young Tommy they have shamed you with the replica belt now they can't play in the wind.

I agree 100%.  The decision to suspend play was a pathetic, wimpy, and unsporting one.

[Brian_Ewen]

This is probably the whiney-est thread ever.

"Are you kidding me?"   

[JohnV]

Rick:

I saw the same shot, and didn't understand it.  If he had removed the mark properly, and then the ball rolled away, I thought the rule was that he played it as it lies (from the new position).  No penalty.

True, as long as it was truely at rest.  If it wasn't at rest, it gets replaced with no penalty.  If it was at rest and moved as a direct result of his removing his mark, no penalty, ball replaced.

The problem isn't oscillating as some have said.  Mike Davis was very specific at our rules meeting that oscillating is not moving and we wouldn't suspend play for that.  Balls (plural) had to be moving regularly.  We only saw Dufner, but there were reports of balls moving on other greens according to the TV and the R&A website.

Quote from David Rickman, Director of Rules:

Golf balls were starting to move on a number of greens at the far end of the golf course and we had no option but to suspend play.

[Adrian_Stiff]

The suspension of play was the right call, you cant have a situation where u miss a 3 foot putt on the lip and go 25 feet away. I saw some amazing putts miss and miss by a long way. The greens were medium stimping 10. The winds were pretty gusty its just one of those things, I've seen worse... the 13th at Westward Ho! Drive-3 wood-3wood- 4 iron, that day you could not tee the ball up on a tee peg, plenty had tales of 5 and 6 putts. Its not golf trying to putt with an oscillating ball and its not fun either.

[Matt_Ward]

Phil:

What planet do you live on?

The 3rd round at Muirfield was nothing short of hurricane like winds with rain coming sideways -- maybe they should have also thrown into the mix an invasion of the Huns too.

[Tom_Doak]

Matt:

What is the precedent for stopping play during a hurricane, so long as there isn't too much casual water on the course and the balls aren't moving on the greens?

[Garland Bayley]

Phil:

What planet do you live on?

The 3rd round at Muirfield was nothing short of hurricane like winds with rain coming sideways -- maybe they should have also thrown into the mix an invasion of the Huns too.

Well, none of us live on the same planet as you Matt, so I guess that is an appropriate question for you to ask. 

[Ulrich Mayring]

Talking about casual water, why are we getting relief from that? Can it be that the writers of the rulebook think that certain course conditions must be upheld for it to be called golf?

Well, I heard some early players were complaining about the stoppage, as they had to play the latter part of their rounds in the same wind. Some even suggested a certain kind of protectionism for Rory and Tiger. So this here cannot be the whiningest thread ;-)

Ulrich

[Pat Burke]

In the '95 Open, I had TWO penalties for my ball moving on the 5th green
It was saturday, and howling left to right, and my ball stopped on a slope on the left side of the green (dirt on the ball).
I marked, cleaned and replaced my ball, fully expecting the ball to blow down the slope, and it stayed!
Set up to the ball, looked at the ball (should have hovered, but didn't), looked at the hole, looked back and the ball blew about 3 feet!
Called the official with our group over and said "I think my ball moved "  He just laughed, and I replaced the ball.
I announced I was not going to sole the putter, and as I set up, another gust, blows the ball into my putter.

Let's say the day did not go well.

BTW.  IF balls cannot stay after being replaced, and you are told to keep playing, nobody will finish.
Sounds like the greens were "considered" too slow early in the week, and had they left them, none of this would likely have happened.
What I have heard, is a number of guys had balls blow away from marks while trying to replace them.  Suspensions seems correct to me.

[Chip Gaskins]

guys, i just don't understand.  the ball won't stay in place on the green.  it doesn't matter if it is one ball of twenty balls.  if the players won't play because of risk of penalty or simply can't decide when to swing their putter due to wind gust then THEY WON'T PLAY THE SHOT and they will simply stand there.  so the R&A can penalize them for slow play or suspend play.  the players will vote with their feet and simply not risk the penalty shot.  call it what you will, if any of us were standing there a shot or two off the lead playing for over a million bucks we all know exactly what we would do....stand there.

[Phil McDade]

Phil:

What planet do you live on?

The 3rd round at Muirfield was nothing short of hurricane like winds with rain coming sideways -- maybe they should have also thrown into the mix an invasion of the Huns too.

Matt:

In pretty bad weather today, Tiger shot 1 over.

The weather at Muirfield was no doubt terrible, but others faced up to the challenge and were able to manage rounds a few strokes over par. Tiger simply was not.

[Bill Brightly]

Oh how the mighty have fallen, worst still how The Open is being disrespected by its own Governing Body. They so love tinkering pity common sense has not prevailed re controlling technology, but then stop The Open due to the wind. Never heard the like, how far have we fallen, can’t walk can’t judge distances, now can’t play in the rain - Young Tommy they have shamed you with the replica belt now they can't play in the wind.

I agree 100%.  The decision to suspend play was a pathetic, wimpy, and unsporting one.

Matthew, have you ever teed it up in a competitive medal play event? If yes, please tell us the highest level event that you played in.

[Garland Bayley]

So we have all the reasons for suspending play as put forth by rules guys such as JVB. What about sending them back out in the same or worse conditions. Philip Gawth (http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45119.0/) was there and says it was so. Rory says the conditions were worse when they were sent back out. So how do you make the decision to send them back out once you have pulled them off?

[Mike Sweeney]

So how do you make the decision to send them back out once you have pulled them off?

Experience as a tournament golfer, which I do not qualify for as my biggest match was the 1980 Catholic League Championships in Philly! We lost. 

[JohnV]

So we have all the reasons for suspending play as put forth by rules guys such as JVB. What about sending them back out in the same or worse conditions. Neil Crafter was there and says it was so. Rory says the conditions were worse when they were sent back out. So how do you make the decision to send them back out once you have pulled them off?

Again according to David Rickman, the wind speed had dropped by at least 5 MPH and the gusts had come down. Rory doesn't have a wind vane in his bag so his is just an opinion vs. facts.  Also, he was on his way out to the windiest part of the course at the time so it would get windier for him even while the wind was easing overall.

[Gary Slatter]

One round of the Dunhill 2009 was winded out because of the greens - however for the Women's British Open they played on with winds up to 50 mph - we walked with Lorena and it was windier than today,  but unlike today they expected the wind and had appropriate pin placements.  

10.3 stimp is OK usually on the OC.   |If they had to stop play everytime it was like this they would have to refund a lot of fees - today was normal for our Thursday group over the last two years.  I learned never to ground the putter.

Luck of the draw loses Opens, Toger was impressive today.

[Garland Bayley]

...
Luck of the draw loses Opens, Toger was impressive today.

Who is Toger? Is he another South African no one has heard of?

[TEPaul]

TomD:

Regarding your Post #38, obviously neither I nor anyone else on here has had the opportunity to speak with them about it but I doubt the tournament committee of the R&A suspended play because players were complaining about the wind; I have to think they suspended play because balls at rest on the putting greens were actually being moved by the wind. If that was actually happening why would anyone condone not suspending play?

[TEPaul]

"So we have all the reasons for suspending play as put forth by rules guys such as JVB. What about sending them back out in the same or worse conditions. Neil Crafter was there and says it was so. Rory says the conditions were worse when they were sent back out. So how do you make the decision to send them back out once you have pulled them off?"


Garland:

I would have to think because before play was suspended the tournament committee of the R&A was aware that balls at rest on putting greens were being moved by the wind with some or enough regularity to suspend play and that after play was resumed that was not the case.

[Garland Bayley]

"So we have all the reasons for suspending play as put forth by rules guys such as JVB. What about sending them back out in the same or worse conditions. Neil Crafter was there and says it was so. Rory says the conditions were worse when they were sent back out. So how do you make the decision to send them back out once you have pulled them off?"


Garland:

I would have to think because before play was suspended the tournament committee of the R&A was aware that balls at rest on putting greens were being moved by the wind with some or enough regularity to suspend play and that after play was resumed that was not the case.

Tom,

JVB above replied that they determined the wind had decreased 5mph, so they restarted play. It seems the method is empirically determine how fast the wind must be to move balls on green by making them play in the wind. Suspend play at that point. Then use the empirical result to restart play at an arbitrary 5 mph decrease. Very scientific those red coats are!

[David_Tepper]

This thread is a beauty.

On one hand, we have a knowledgeable, experienced, professional rules official (who has officiated at numerous USGA championship events) and a former PGA touring professional (who has played in the British Open and actually been penalized under the very windy conditions similar to those seen today at the British Open). They both say the officials made the correct call to stop play.     

On the other hand, we have a bunch of backseat drivers, whose collective experience and first-hand knowledge of championship golf could charitably be described as minimal, telling us play should not have been stopped.

I wonder who knows best?  

[TEPaul]

"Tom,
JVB above replied that they determined the wind had decreased 5mph, so they restarted play. It seems the method is empirically determine how fast the wind must be to move balls on green by making them play in the wind. Suspend play at that point. Then use the empirical result to restart play at an arbitrary 5 mph decrease. Very scientific those red coats are!"



Garland:

AGAIN, I don't know what the criteria was that the Tournament Committee of the R&A used to make the decision to suspend play and then to restart because I doubt JVB talked to them and I know I didn't. However, I would hope and I would suspect that they made the decision to suspend play due to the incidence of balls at rest on putting greens being moved by the wind. And I would assume that they resumed play when they felt that may not happen again. I am not aware of any balls at rest on putting greens being moved by the wind after play was resumed (are you?) no matter what other stories are told on here about why they suspended or resumed play or what the wind indicators indicated at any point in time.

Are you?

[Garland Bayley]

Tom,

Read the thread. JVB quoted the R&A official on the 5 mph decrease.

You know Dan Kelly's prescription of no emoticons just don't work when you take my responses so seriously.

[TEPaul]

Garland:

I'm talking ONLY about what happened at the British Open today with suspension of play due to wind and why, not emoticons or Dan Kelly or your sense of humor or your sense of irony or any other indirect or reflected suggestion or comment.