[Matt_Ward]

Craig R:

Glad to see your comments on Springwood -- good Hurdzan & Fry effort -- also possible top ten consideration. The terrain is really neat and have to add the 11th the long par-4 at 465 yards is one of the toughest public holes in the Keystone State without question.

Would also mention that P.B. Dye's layout Iron Valley in Cornwall, just outside of Harrisburg, should have been mentioned in the top ten as well as my previous comments on Quick Silver.

What this proves is that Pennsy for all the years as top private club state really is weak on the public side of the ledger even with all the land and relatively mid-size communities that could support such layouts of distinction.

I agree with Mike Cirba about Hershey but if the course was in a hotbed state of public golf (i.e. Michigan, Wisconsin, Oregon) it would be lost in the sauce. Good course no doubt but more towards the end of the top ten than in the middle in my mind.

[THuckaby2]

Steve Johnson:  

Just getting back to this from Friday, but you asked my impression of San Juan Oaks and that is.... I really like it!  Walkable, strategy all over, some "curious" holes but lots of thought required and plenty of challenge for the low 'cappers from the back tees.  I'd rate it higher than Cinnabar and just outside the top 20 list... maye eaking in the bottom end.  Another one I forgot when I made my initial list and I've played it many times....

As for HMB Ocean, well, to each his own.  I kinda LIKE that high point where you can see all the holes - reminds me of the UK.  Perhaps a "intangible" here that makes me rate it so highly is the fact that it's about 50000 times better than the Old course next door...  In any case, I find quite a few very strong holes on HMB Ocean and really no weak ones also.  I like the somewhat minimalist bunker style, and I REALLY like the flow... 4 and 5 as back to back "par 4.5's" just gets me jazzed... and 16 there is as good a hole as we have in the Bay Area.

TH

[John Foley]

Tom,

Why do you think 16 is as good a hole as there is in the bay area? I liked the hole, but if I remeber it was 3I & PW.

I liked the course alot. My biggest complaint was that the green surrounds would have a great number of options if they were mown closely, however w/ the rough height it was SW it out, only option.

[RJ_Daley]

I'm praying and chanting for spring to come soon and we can all get out to the golf course of our choice., before this G*&D#$^ list and rankings thread makes it to 10 pages! :-/  

[THuckaby2]

JF - maybe it's 3I/PW for you - it's sure more than that on both ends for me!  I find the tee shot intriguing as the more club you hit, the easier the 2nd shot... but the narrower it gets... it's also darn hard to figure how far the ball's gonna go down that hill and the wind is tough to judge.... then the 2nd, no matter what club you have, is a darn tough shot and that green has some subtle rolls that are also very hard to figure.  Add in the pretty incredible view, and that is one great golf hole.

TH

[john_f (Guest)]

TH,

Maybe I played a forward tee? If I do remeber, I did get a great roll down the hill. I do remeber the second shot being a good one w/ the junk in front of the green and remeber thinking how long was definetly bad.

As for the view, you're right it's amazing. I liked 17 alot, however found 18 to be a bit dissapointing, probably from the let down factor of moving somewhat away from the ocean.

[THuckaby2]

JF:  unless you're as long as Tiger, from the back tees that's gonna be more than 3I/PW.  Heck, I'll give ya the benefit of the doubt!  The tee shot nearly always plays into the wind as well.  Cool thing is that no matter what you hit off the tee, to get it to where you'll have PW (so say 130 max for mortals) the hole tightens up considerably.  And on the 2nd, darn right long is death... short is hazard...

It is a great hole.

17 is fun, especially in wind... another  subtle green.  I'm with ya re 18, esp. since they moved the green to allow for the hotel.  Nothing great, somewhat anticlimatic as it goes away from the ocean - good call.

TH

[Ken_Cotner]

BillV,

Whitetail -- yes, that is an, um, interesting back 9.  A real routing challenge for the designer.  Couple fun holes on the front, though.

Later,
K

[Craig Van Egmond]

Tom D, Shooter,

        You asked for the  courses in Washington I would give a 7 to. Well if you consider that Tom Doak gave Talking Stick North a 7, then by that basis there are no 7's in Washington.

         However, I gave TS North an 8, so here is the complete list of 7's in Washington, showcasing the finest in public golf that best represents Washington golf, so naturally they are by Northwest based architects:

          1.  The Olympic course at Gold Mountain - John Harbottle.

          2.  Meriwood - Bill Overdorf

[Paul Richards]

An earlier reference in this post was made to the course
record at Bali Hai.  I stand corrected - the course record is
65, not 67, by Dan Jennings of Los Angeles.

This 65 was shot despite two penalty shots which he
incurred, apparently due to some in-course out-of-bounds!

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