[ChipOat]

The Caledonia Golf and Fish aerial got me thinking about really short par 3's - 110 yards or less.

Are they truly credible golf holes or are they just:

1) squeezed in to a tight space by necessity or
2) used to transition from one elevation to another?

I've not played Caledonia or #8 (Postage Stamp) at Troon  but I only remember a couple of real shorties.

#9 at Whitemarsh Valley (near Philadelphia) is a pre-California George Thomas design.  It's got a deep front bunker but not much else as I recall (Tom Paul please comment).

#7 at Pebble Beach is, for sure, a "real" golf hole when the wind blows.  But on a calm day (which happens a lot) is it much of a test?

The other 2 are "novelty" holes and hard to take seriously - both straight downhill.

#6 on Merion's West Course is 100 yards that plays like 60.  The green is big enough and actually has some back/front contour

#7 at Pocono Manor is 77 yards that plays like 40.  Once you get the club selection right, it's a hard green to miss.

Let's use 115 yards as the maximum.  Therefore:

1) All the CBM/Raynor "Short" holes I've played (about 130 yards) are too long.

2) #10 at Pine Valley is too long.

3) #11 at Shinnecock is too long.

Are ultra-short par 3's real golf holes?  After all, the "flip wedge" approaches to great short par 4's (e.g. #8 at Pine Valley, #10 at Riviera, #8 at Cypress) are more demanding than par 3's of similar length.

Any really good ultra-short par 3's out there?  Does #8 at Troon qualify as short enough?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Former Art Hills Associate Brian Huntley has a 97 yard hole in Monroe, Michigan.  I really liked it, as it had a ridge in the middle of the green, and the half shot was hard to get right where you wanted it.  Much harder than if it was a full shot with lots of spin.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Chipoat,

How could you create this thread and leave out such a significant hole ?

The shortest par 3 in USOPEN history is right in your backyard, (sortof) and you don't even mention it.

The 10th hole, over a little pond to a two tiered green, and you don't even mention it.

A golf course that Tom Doak restored/renovated recently and you don't even mention it.

A golf course that recently hosted the MGA Senior Amateur and you don't even mention it.

My god man, what were you thinking about ?

[ChipOat]

Pat Mucci:

Having a senior moment, I guess.  If Inwood is the course in question, I didn't remember #10 as being that short.  #18 is the hole there that gets all the press, as you can imagine.

If Philadelphia CC is the one, I haven't played there since they had a junior tournament - something for which I have not been eligible for over 32 years!!

CO

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Two other examples:

#14 at Norwich, 110 yds directly uphill.  Blind pin placement.

#17 at Seaview (Bay), 110 yds (flat)

I prefer short par 3's uphill rather than downhill.  Not having a clear picture in your mind tends to make these short holes play tougher.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Correction - its #13 at Norwich.

[Richard_Goodale]

The 10th at Pacific Grove is the stupidest little 100 yard hole with absolutely no hazards and a womblike inviting green that I have never hit in my three visits there and never parred, despite never having been more than 25 feet from the pin in one, and yet I love it, because the magnificence of 11-16 are always sure to follow.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Chipoat,

You're too young to have a senior moment.

Inwood it is.

I believe it played to as little as 87-90 yards, and is a challenging little hole, especially with the pin on the back tier.
You don't want to be over the green, and Inwood gets a fair amount of my favorite element, WIND.

It really is a neat "little" hole.

I would rate it as an undiscovered GEM, especially when the breeze is up.

I think Doak did some very nice work there.

My only question with the club is why they didn't bring the 18th green back to the water, just like it existed when RTJ hit his famous 2-iron into that green to win the OPEN.

[spdb1]

4, or 5 (can't remember Tom Paul will) at Gulph Mills is a great little one shotter, and no more than 110 yds. Its green is pretty severe, and when the pin is cut all the way to the right, there is almost no green to work with.
It really is one of my favorite short, short par 3s i have played.

BTW, I have told anybody who will listen that Tom Fazio builds really good short par 3s, for which he gets no credit - even on properties that dont require it. He does this even when modern archs are stretching all the par 3s on the course to absurd lengths.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Sean,

It is #4 at Gulph Mills and it is a very good example.  I must have had a "senior moment" by not remembering that one.  It has a quarry in front of the hole and a wonderful green complex.

[Greg Stebbins]

Geoffrey,

Are you referring to #13 at Norwich in Connecticut?  I used to play there in college as my coach is the pro there.  Fun little golf course.  I remember the hardest part about that hole was guessing the distance as there were no distance markers on the tee.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Greg,

I did mean #13 at Norwich (I corrected myself after the post).  It was very difficult to determine the yardage and it would be fun to play in the wind...

[spdb2]

I "labored" hard to remember these two:

Manufacturers - 8
and
Engineers - can't remember but it is on the backside.

now that's yeoman work.

[Tyler Kearns]

The old 9th hole at Glendale. A great little hole, not in excess of 105 yds, designed by Stanley Thompson. It was extremely difficult because the cant in the green was so severe, and any pulled shot wound up in the Assiniboine River. A great teaser of a hole, on the scorecard it spells respite, but in play, it demanded a carefully placed wedge, and 2 gingerly struck putts to ensure a hard-earned three. Note: sadly, when the course was re-designed it was relegated to the 19th (practice) hole, where it was neglected and soon perished.

[Brad Klein]

Inwood's 10th is exactly 106 yards from the back tee - made tougher by the electrical wire that crosses at the front of the tee and that can be hit. I grew up caddying there and loved the hole because it was the first one I could ever hit in regulation. The shot, over a pond, is made really scary because it's across the entrance drive and cars often sit there waiting for you to hit across.

On the North Shore of Long Island, Engineer's famous 14th hole - like Inwood, a Herbert Strong design - is about 90 yards, and was played that way in the 1919 PGA and the 1920 US Amateur. It's called the "2 or 20 hole" because in an exhibition match there in the 1920s, Bobby Jones and Gene Sarazen (I think) both made double figures on the hole. It's downhill, the green falls off all around, and if you yank it a tad left it's in serious gunk.

In recent years they've taken the hole out of rotation so that you walk by it and play it only if another hole is being worked on. There was a brief effort at restoring it in the mid-1990s under design by Gil Hanse, but owing to some unusual club dynamics the effort failed.

[Evan Fleisher]

I was going to throw out the 12th hole at the Leatherstocking Golf course up in Cooperstown, NY...but looking at the scorecard it claims to be a 141 yard hole.

However...due to the EXTREME downhill nature of the hole, and I mean STRAIGHT down a cliff, it cannot play any longer than 90-100 yards.  Bunkers fronting the green, bunkers behind (if my memory serves me), and a very shallow green all lend to the challenge of this fun little hole.  Too bad I plugged my tee shot under the lip of one of the front bunkers.  Quad bogey is not really a good score...on ANY hole.  Yet somehow, I still pulled off the greatest golfing victory of my entire life...beating my DAD for the first time EVER!!!  

[TEPaul]

Gulph Mills #4 112yds to a bowlish green well bunkered in front and back right, a steep decline left and straight long. A wedge shot and not hard to hit but if you miss the green anywhere but short right you have a bit of a problem.

LuLu's #4 about 100yd to a tabletop green falling off steeply almost all around and a green surface although not that small that's just barely blind to the tee.

Hanse's #5 about 100yds dead down hill extremely shallow and mostly blind green.

Manufacturers #8 about 120 downhill into an old quarry and slightly bowlish green with steep sidewalls near the putting surface.

I'll think of some more tomorrow.

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Number 11 at Riddell's Bay, 107 yards, a tough green and one of the better holes on the course.

[Mike_Cirba]

Merion East's #13.  For those with vivid memories, it used to have the coolest bunkering too!  

[ChipOat]

Mike Cirba

Merion East #13 is 120-125 from the members' tees and 135 from the back markers.  IMO, the bunkering is even better since they've made them a touch deeper all the way around.  Also IMO, that hole would be a lot more effective if they extended the green towards the creek (Cobbs Creek, actually) and created some scary pin positions with big penalties if you miss right.

Calling all Dartmouth alumni

There's a little downhill par 3 at Hanover CC that plays toward the ski jump.  Any more feedback on that one?

Everybody

It sounds like you all agree these little shorties are bona fide golf holes.  So why are the greens bigger with less surrounding penalties (except for Engineers) than the short par 4's I mentioned at the start of the thread?

Or am I just overconfident when my ball's sitting on a tee?

[THuckaby2]

Chip, you asked if 7 Pebble is any challenge with no wind.

YES.

That is a small green, pretty well sloped... and let's just say there are some signifcant hazards right and long, which are also only slightly visually distracting.  Judging the exact distance isn't all that easy either given the downhill nature of the hole.  Oh, it's not a beast or anything, but it's not as easy as you'd think.

And Rich, good call re 10 Pacific Grove... there is NOTHING that would indicate that little bugger should be anything but a cakewalk... but I too seem to miss that green way more than I hit it!

That hole was interesting when the nines were reversed... picture that as #1....

Troon Postage Stamp isn't short enough to qualify for this discussion, is it?  I remember that being 140 or so...

TH

[Mike_Cirba]

Chip,

I almost always find myself in general agreement when I read your opinions here, so you can imagine my surprise to hear that you really like the new, modernized bunkers at Merion and consider them an improvement on the original Wilson/Flynn/Valentine "white faces".

That's fine...it's about time that someone who holds that opinion speaks up here.  I'd enjoy hearing more of your thoughts on that matter.

Given that you seem to also have no philosophical disagreement with modernizing and altering classic courses, as evidenced by your wish to see the 13th green relocated closer to the water hazard, could you describe any other changes that you believe would make Merion East a better golf course?  Thanks.

[George Pazin]

Weren't there some really short par 3s at Applebrook? I remember at least one, the green looked like a sliver. How did they turn out?

[ChipOat]

Tom Huckaby

I tend to score OK the few times I've played Pebble (focused on getting my money's worth??) and have never been there on a really windy day.  I find 6, 8, 9, 10, 14 and 17 (left pin) to be really hard with no wind. I'll accept your word about #7 but I'm looking forward to my first 5 iron into that green!

George Pazin

I'm hearing good things about Applebrook but Tom Paul can answer your question - I've not seen it yet.

Mike Cirba

See my e-mail.

[THuckaby2]

Chip:  for a good player, any wedge off a tee ought to be relatively easy no matter what hazards and/or distractions there are... so take my thoughts on 7 Pebble with some salt from the distractions.  What I really mean to say is this wedge is gonna be a bit more difficult than your standard 100 yard shot on a parkland course, that's all.

I've only played it in significant wind once and whoo-boy... that is one fun shot.  I got the same wind as they did in 92 Open and it takes some guts to start the ball over the ocean and hope it blows back.  Remember how many pros were missing left that day in 92?

Interesting you include 6 in the "hard with no wind" holes, most people don't.  I'm with ya - it's not the cakewalk people tend to say... I find 3 always very tough also.  But right-to-left shots are always tougher for me, a Nicklaus devotee (and thus unable to draw the ball unless I really try hard).

TH

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