The Elephant in the Room

[Adam Clayman]

Slower Green speeds make Tiger uncomfortable. So he says in his interview yesterday at TOC. Stimping at 9 throws him off his game. He feels more comfortable with higher green speeds.

So, why is something so obviously difficult for the best player on the planet being dismissed as a way to toughen up golf courses?

It reminds me of how some of the people I play golf with around here, who pick and choose the rules they want to follow.

[Anthony Gray]

  Slower grrens give the player a chance to be more agressive and take a bolder run at the hole not fearing the long come back. They should favor him don't you think?

  Anthony

[Ronald Montesano]

Does slower mean less consistent, bumpier?  I have to believe it does, in Tiger's eyes and mind.  

[Joe Bausch]

FYI:  Tiger is using a new putter this week b/c he says it is better suited for slower greens.

[Adam Clayman]

It wasn't that long ago that 9 on the Stimp was considered fast. Ronald's claim that they are bumpier, likely has a lot of factors as to why they are bumpier. Failure to fix ball marks, etc. Smooth surfaces, in my estimation, are capable at any speed.

With the loss of character and contours that have been forced on the golfing world, due to higher green speeds, is this another example of making the sport easier, while telling everyone, and having everyone think, they are more difficult.

Anthony, Any green speed should be adapted to. Slower speeds on undulating greens test the players ability to marry line and speed, better than flat fast greens , which mostly only tests the line of putt. Come backers are easier at almost any speed too, due to the confidence of having seen the line as your ball went by the cup on the first try. One added benefit of slower speeds would be that it speeds up the game for those 25 cappers who feel the need to hole out for a ten from 2 feet.

The newest rule in golf should be a 9 stroke maximum. Unless it's match play. 

[BCrosby]

This topic has come up before. I think it is probably true that world class pros will have more trouble with greens at 9 rather than 14. Though they will adjust and probably more quickly than they will admit to.

The real knock on speeds so slow is that they make recoveries from off the green too easy. If a green is at 9, anyone with a Tour card will automatically increase his up and down numbers. Probably significantly. Short-siding approaches becomes much less of a problem when you have a slow green and a world class player holding a 60 degree wedge.

Bob

[Adam Clayman]

Bob. In your opinion is that up and down easing worthy of making greens so flat as to be void of character?

[Mac Plumart]

Interesting Tiger said that.  Phil said something similiar while playing the Scottish Open about the greens being slower in that neck of the woods...but he said it was due to a thicker blade of grass.  I am no agronomist, so I have to take his word for it.  Either way, the top 2 players in the world saying greens are slower.  That favors who?  Paddy, Lee, Rory?

[Kenny Baer]

I don't think it favors anyone really; the fescue surface is completely different than bent, which almost all American tour players are used to putting on.  Just takes getting used to; the better putters will end up being the better putters regardless.

[Gary Slatter]

Tiger and Phil do not play enough to get used to slower green speeds.  I believe they will be 10.3 for the Open.

Which one of Phil's camp said the blades of grass were thicker?  

IMHO 10.3 is a perfect speed for the modern golfer who seems to have a higher average handicap than their fathers.

 

[Mac Plumart]

Phil himself said it in an interview.  The same interview that he said driving the ball a long way to avoid the trouble at The Old Course would be another key to winning.  Again, I don't know if he is right...but I've heard people who do know say that putting is the key at St. Andrews.

[D_Malley]

I think we clearly saw this in the AT&T at Aronimink (AGC).
the PGA tour asked AGC to slow down their greens from normal member speeds
they asked for speeds of 10.5 - 11.0 for the event, where they normally run at 12-13 in season.
This allowed them to use several hole locations that were otherwise unusable for member play.
It definitely made scoring harder at AGC with undulating greens and firm conditions.

Tiger did not break par in any of his four rounds at AGC

[Anthony Gray]

This topic has come up before. I think it is probably true that world class pros will have more trouble with greens at 9 rather than 14. Though they will adjust and probably more quickly than they will admit to.

The real knock on speeds so slow is that they make recoveries from off the green too easy. If a green is at 9, anyone with a Tour card will automatically increase his up and down numbers. Probably significantly. Short-siding approaches becomes much less of a problem when you have a slow green and a world class player holding a 60 degree wedge.

Bob

  If the greens are at 9 than the fairway and green surrounds are most likely an 8. Most of the ups and downs will be with a putter.

  Anthony

[PThomas]

maybe he should ask Jack if White Fang is available...

[Steve_ Shaffer]

He switched to one of the new Nike Method putters!!!!


http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/golf/tiger-woods-new-putter-british-open-20100713,0,7389530.story

[Scott Warren]

It wasn't that long ago that 9 on the Stimp was considered fast. Ronald's claim that they are bumpier, likely has a lot of factors as to why they are bumpier. Failure to fix ball marks, etc. Smooth surfaces, in my estimation, are capable at any speed.

I agree. A couple of weeks back I played New Zealand GC with GCAers Andrew Mitchell and Richard Pennell.

I have not played on smoother greens in my time in the UK, yet they were probably stimping at no more than 8 (I think...).

[Mark McKeever]

A lot of Scotty Cameron fans are speechless from this putter switch.

Mark

[Adam Clayman]

Truthfully, I'm confident that a putter change is not necessary. All that is needed to adapt to slower speeds is a change in grip pressure. Stroke stays the same and the ball travels farther with the tighter grip. It's a useful trick when you are putting on greens that are slower than they appear too. The mind is tricked into thinking they are faster and the tighter grip tricks the mind back.

[Niall C]

Adam,

I tend to think Tigers putting problem is more than just the pace of the greens. He hasn't looked anything like what he was on the greens. Also bear in mind his Open record which suggests he hasn't had any problems before.

Niall

[Bill_Yates]

What's Monty going to be bellyaching about this week?  Too fast?  Too slow? Too much crowd noise?  What?  He's going to need a few excuses by Saturday as well.  Oops, is Monty even in the field?

These are all the same guys that miss a two foot putt then tamp down the turf to show us that it really wasn't the yips, then fist-pump like crazy when they drain one.  Just putt the damn thing.

[jeffwarne]

I think we clearly saw this in the AT&T at Aronimink (AGC).
the PGA tour asked AGC to slow down their greens from normal member speeds
they asked for speeds of 10.5 - 11.0 for the event, where they normally run at 12-13 in season.
This allowed them to use several hole locations that were otherwise unusable for member play.
It definitely made scoring harder at AGC with undulating greens and firm conditions.

Tiger did not break par in any of his four rounds at AGC

ding ding ding-a winner
slower speeds allow use of more interesting parts of the green (if there are any)

[jeffwarne]

It wasn't that long ago that 9 on the Stimp was considered fast. Ronald's claim that they are bumpier, likely has a lot of factors as to why they are bumpier. Failure to fix ball marks, etc. Smooth surfaces, in my estimation, are capable at any speed.

With the loss of character and contours that have been forced on the golfing world, due to higher green speeds, is this another example of making the sport easier, while telling everyone, and having everyone think, they are more difficult.

 

spot on
I would also dispute Bob Crosby's comment that slower speeds make up and downs easier.
Not if the greens are allowed to get firmer (which you can with the healthier turf from less stress from higher cut)
also, not if the slower greens allow a more undulating area for the hole to be cut (assuming the green wasn't designed for "modern idiocy" speeds of 12+)

[Carl Johnson]

Isn't it the difference between golf and billiards (or bowling)?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

It's basically just like Scotty's version of the Ping Anser putter except for the face grooves:

[David Lott]

Tiger used to be in everyone else's head. Now he's in his own.