TOC Bunkers

[Scott Macpherson]

Will this Open Championship be the one that signals its time to cut more Bunkers on TOC?

As John Low wrote about 100 years ago, in 1907, "It is the nearness of the hazards to the perfect line of play which seems to me to make St Andrews so fine a test of the game.” 

Before the first stroke is made in 150th Open Championship, can we already say that the current test of golf on the Old Course is not as exacting and excellent as it was in previous times?

Why? Well the in response to the advance of modern equipment (balls and Clubs) the teeing grounds on TOC have been moved back, and mainly to the right, changing the play-lines off the tee, and thus the relationship between these play-lines and the bunkers.

Is it time again therefore – like in 1904 – for new bunkers to be cut on TOC? If so, I could recommend one that I believe could be of great merit. It seems to me the first bunker that could be cut is on the 14th hole. Just past the last Beardie in the centre of the fairway about 300 yards off the tee is a hollow that could be easily made into a strategic bunker. If it were cut, there would perhaps 35y for players to thread the ball between this bunker and the wall allowing them to get closer to the green but on a slightly awkward angle. But those players laying-up would be taking less risk off the tee but then have to negotiate Hell Bunker with less room for error. This hole is a Par 5 that has averaged 4.97 and 4.86 for the last two open Championships. The addition of such a bunker could reverse this decreasing stroke average, and put one hazard closer to the perfect line. I am tempted to think that the great John Low may just approve such a bunker.

scott

[Bill_McBride]

Will this Open Championship be the one that signals its time to cut more Bunkers on TOC?

As John Low wrote about 100 years ago, in 1907, "It is the nearness of the hazards to the perfect line of play which seems to me to make St Andrews so fine a test of the game.” 

Before the first stroke is made in 150th Open Championship, can we already say that the current test of golf on the Old Course is not as exacting and excellent as it was in previous times?

Why? Well the in response to the advance of modern equipment (balls and Clubs) the teeing grounds on TOC have been moved back, and mainly to the right, changing the play-lines off the tee, and thus the relationship between these play-lines and the bunkers.

Is it time again therefore – like in 1904 – for new bunkers to be cut on TOC? If so, I could recommend one that I believe could be of great merit. It seems to me the first bunker that could be cut is on the 14th hole. Just past the last Beardie in the centre of the fairway about 300 yards off the tee is a hollow that could be easily made into a strategic bunker. If it were cut, there would perhaps 35y for players to thread the ball between this bunker and the wall allowing them to get closer to the green but on a slightly awkward angle. But those players laying-up would be taking less risk off the tee but then have to negotiate Hell Bunker with less room for error. This hole is a Par 5 that has averaged 4.97 and 4.86 for the last two open Championships. The addition of such a bunker could reverse this decreasing stroke average, and put one hazard closer to the perfect line. I am tempted to think that the great John Low may just approve such a bunker.

scott

Or perhaps roll back the ball and put some teeth back into Hell.

I sat in the grandstand at 14 for an hour or two each day in 2005 and never saw one player have a problem flying Hell in two, even from the new tee on the Eden course.      There's the rub.

[Philippe Binette]

20 mph of wind and it will be all good....

[Tim Gavrich]

Will this Open Championship be the one that signals its time to cut more Bunkers on TOC?

As John Low wrote about 100 years ago, in 1907, "It is the nearness of the hazards to the perfect line of play which seems to me to make St Andrews so fine a test of the game.” 

Before the first stroke is made in 150th Open Championship, can we already say that the current test of golf on the Old Course is not as exacting and excellent as it was in previous times?

Why? Well the in response to the advance of modern equipment (balls and Clubs) the teeing grounds on TOC have been moved back, and mainly to the right, changing the play-lines off the tee, and thus the relationship between these play-lines and the bunkers.

Is it time again therefore – like in 1904 – for new bunkers to be cut on TOC? If so, I could recommend one that I believe could be of great merit. It seems to me the first bunker that could be cut is on the 14th hole. Just past the last Beardie in the centre of the fairway about 300 yards off the tee is a hollow that could be easily made into a strategic bunker. If it were cut, there would perhaps 35y for players to thread the ball between this bunker and the wall allowing them to get closer to the green but on a slightly awkward angle. But those players laying-up would be taking less risk off the tee but then have to negotiate Hell Bunker with less room for error. This hole is a Par 5 that has averaged 4.97 and 4.86 for the last two open Championships. The addition of such a bunker could reverse this decreasing stroke average, and put one hazard closer to the perfect line. I am tempted to think that the great John Low may just approve such a bunker.

scott

I wouldn't be too alarmed at scoring averages of 4.97 and 4.86; that's actually a bit tougher than most par 5s seem to play on Tour, even in majors.  Though a bunker or two here and there might not hurt, I would be hesitant to do too much to TOC.  The fact of life is that if the curse is to defend par in the manner golf fans wish to see, Mother Nature must do her part.  If not, -15 under will probably win.  But if you take pains to toughen the golf course in deference to unfortunately calm conditions, then in the event of proper wind and nastiness, it'll be excessively difficult and will become less of a test and more of a slog.

The game evolves, the golf course evolves, the test evolves.  I don't see that as a bad thing, personally.  It is a shame that the Hell bunker isn't in play as much as it once was, but then again the golf course is not just for the pros; it's for the everyman too (except on Sundays).  I imagine Hell still comes into play for 90% of players.

[Jason Topp]

Scott:

You would know better than the rest of us but I think the answer is yes.

[BCrosby]

Scott -

John Low advocated adding bunkers to TOC for a number of years. He talks about it in Concerning Golf (1903) and continued to urge new bunkers in later essays. He refers at one point to Fowler, Kirkaldy and others as sharing his views. Turned out that Low got only some of the bunkers he wanted. So yes, I suspect he would like your idea.

The 16th was Low's favorite two shot hole at TOC (back when the RH was considered a three shot hole). I also suspect, given how far players now hit it, that he would have been in favor of both stretching the 16th tee and adding new bunkers farther out but on the same line as the PN bunker, the point being to make the PN relevant. What was a great hole in Low's day is now something much less.

All fun to speculate about. The problem is that TOC has taken on even more iconic significance in the decades since Low. It's one thing to move tees back, but quite another to start messin' with or adding bunkers. I think the same general rule applies to other iconic courses like ANGC. Move the tees back if you must, but leave the course features - to the extent possbile - as we have known them over the years.

Bob   

[Brian Phillips]

Just wanted to bump this back up to the top as it is a great topic.

I think Scott's idea of his new bunker on the 14th is superb and it is a very good example of how ONE bunker can help change the strategy of a hole.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Put me down as another who feel's Scott's idea is a good one (for this particular bunker anyway)... The Elysian Fields are rather too wide and inviting at present...

[Scott Macpherson]

Brian, Ally,

Just been in St Andrews for the Practice day. The weather is not going to be great this year in St Andrews (as it has been for the last 2 Opens- i.e. 2000 & 2005), but I am going to try and get some driving stats on the 14th hole and see where players hit the ball too. It will be interesting to see if a new bunker in the fairway hollow could be as meritorious in the wet as it is in the dry (when the ball runs considerably further)

Thanks for you interest.


scott

[Melvyn Morrow]

I certainly do not disagree with Scott, however until the question of ball control/roll back/controlling technology has finally been addressed I believe we should leave well alone.

To tinker with a course when the fundamental problem lies with uncontrolled equipment will just clouds  the issue even further.

Courses are golf most precious assets and need to be protected from the ignorance being displayed by our Governing Bodies.

Melvyn 

[Scott Macpherson]

Hi Melvyn,

I am happy to be out on a limb as regards this bunker on 14th – but I am certainly not proposing it just to be Devils advocate. I think it is a very good idea – and hope to be able to prove that.

It was interesting to here HRH Prince Andrew speak to the Golf Writers Association on Tuesday night at the Open and inform us that he doesn't think equipment has had any significant impact on the game since 2002 and that the advances that have been made prior to that have just made the game more enjoyable for most golfers. He also spoke of the changes in the game in previous periods - e.g. when the Haskell ball was introduced  and how there was many at that time who proposed the gutty should have been legislated as the ball we all play with from hence forth. His position, which is shared with the R&A and the USGA is that equipment has not had a negative impact on the classic courses or the game. Many share that view. I disagree.

As an architect, we are requesting/suggestion/informing out clients that they need to buy greater parcels of land to build there new golf courses because the ball travels further. And not just further in straight line, but further off line as well. So the set-backs on neighbouring propertys needs to be greater. This can be priced into new builds, but what happens on older courses? Conflicts with ball-strike are causing greater problems (e.g. 1st hole at Royal Wimbledon at the moment), and older courses (which are often have their property footprint set) do do have the room to realign holes, or put in more back tees. Anyway, we all know that discussion is a difficult one.

My point Melvyn, is that we shouldn't be holding our collective breathe about the ball be limited – or the introduction of a tournament ball (which is probably my preferred option). Is doesn't seem this is going to happen soon.

Tinkering is a funny word, and may suit you to use. It suggests a thoughtlessness. It is not something I advocate. The bunker I am proposing is a very deliberate extension to extend the Beardies out into the 14th fairway. As Geoff Olivly told me on Wednesday, the 14th hole is one of the easiest on the course. 'We are hitting away from the OB, and the Beardies are too far left. It was much harder when we had to hit down the (parallel) wall.' His comments refer to the new back tees, and the impact of the ball, neither of which we can do much about, but we can add a bunker.

Melvyn, how much input did Old Tom have on the cutting and placement of the 13 bunker that were cut on the Old Course in 1904?

As I first wrote, John Low thought in 1907, the the virtue of TOC was the 'nearness of the bunkers to the perfect line'. Due to modern equipment, the perfect lines have changed on most holes, so we need to have the discussion about the bunkers. No Tinkering though.

scott

[Melvyn Morrow]

Hi Scott

I am not disagreeing with you, but I feel the question of technology needs to be address before we modify any course. As for the word ‘tinkering’ I meant it in the most positive of ways i.e. minor mods.

As for Andrew, well let’s just say I have no time for him or his attitudes. As for the R&A and Andrew, I do not expect you could slide a human hair between the two of them but which is the ventriloquist dummy I would find it hard to say.

There is certainly an issue with technology but I go back further than 2002, I look back to the 60-70-80 & 90’s and thanks to equipment improvements my score improved, not to the same extent as my skill I am sorry to say proving in my mind that technology was responsible for my best scores. That’s not right or fair, I have just conned myself worst still if I had not accepted that fact I would have cheated myself, that’s certainly not golf.

As for Old Tom, by 1904 Hamilton’s ideas were to the forefront yet he got it totally wrong and the course took years to recover from his management errors. Let’s not forget that this was the time of the Haskell replacing the old Gutty and of a tired Old man in his mid 80’s.

I like bunkers, I want to see more aggressive bunkers aimed at tackling the long shots, location being the key, but there are just too many shallow sandpits on courses today that are of very little practical use and seem to form a decorative feature rather than the sand traps they are meant to be.

Good to see you posting, more please (have you played Askernish yet – if not why not???)

Melvyn
 

[John Moore II]

Is it just me or does it seem that the bunkers at St. Andrews and other great UK courses provide for much more of a hazard than the typical bunker on a US course, even the great US courses? I like the idea of bunkers being real tough hazards and at least half, but likely 3/4 shot penalties.

[Scott Macpherson]

John,

That's a good bar-room conversation, but here's what my business partner (former touring Pro Greg Turner) said to me on the matter, 'Around the greens, when the pro's would rather be in the bunkers than in the rough, there's a problem with the bunkers or the course set-up.'

scott

[JC Jones]

Scott,

Can you articulate the changes to the Road Hole bunker?  I understand the sand may be flatter and the face lowered.  Is that correct?

BTW, I see your book featured prominently on the ESPN broadcast. They have a coffee table in the studio with Mike Tirico and front and center is a copy of your book.  Congrats.

[Don_Mahaffey]

Scott,
Five years ago I promised my son if he finished in the top 5 of his high school class I would take him to St. Andrews after he graduated. This year, at the end of his 11th school year, he's third. I'm trying to save for our upcoming trip.

I don't care one bit about how the tour players play what I think is among the greatest holes in the world, the 14th at TOC. But I do care about how the rest of us play the hole. So I'll be straight up, I don't like your idea at all. If you start digging bunkers in an effort to make TOC tougher on calm days you'll make her unplayable for the rest of us when we have to endure "Scottish" weather.
When the weather is calm, the pros will take it deep, but when the weather rises up, the course will be fine, and plenty tough.

We play the course 1000 times more than the Pros, shes fine as is.

[JC Jones]

Scott,
Five years ago I promised my son if he finished in the top 5 of his high school class I would take him to St. Andrews after he graduated. This year, at the end of his 11th school year, he's third. I'm trying to save for our upcoming trip.

I don't care one bit about how the tour players play what I think is among the greatest holes in the world, the 14th at TOC. But I do care about how the rest of us play the hole. So I'll be straight up, I don't like your idea at all. If you start digging bunkers in an effort to make TOC tougher on calm days you'll make her unplayable for the rest of us when we have to endure "Scottish" weather.
When the weather is calm, the pros will take it deep, but when the weather rises up, the course will be fine, and plenty tough.

We play the course 1000 times more than the Pros, shes fine as is.

Amen

[Bill_McBride]

Scott,
Five years ago I promised my son if he finished in the top 5 of his high school class I would take him to St. Andrews after he graduated. This year, at the end of his 11th school year, he's third. I'm trying to save for our upcoming trip.

I don't care one bit about how the tour players play what I think is among the greatest holes in the world, the 14th at TOC. But I do care about how the rest of us play the hole. So I'll be straight up, I don't like your idea at all. If you start digging bunkers in an effort to make TOC tougher on calm days you'll make her unplayable for the rest of us when we have to endure "Scottish" weather.
When the weather is calm, the pros will take it deep, but when the weather rises up, the course will be fine, and plenty tough.

We play the course 1000 times more than the Pros, shes fine as is.

I'm with Don.  We mortals play a much different Old Course, including the Long Hole, and I would hate to see the old lady changed for an every five year event because the ruling bodies can't take control of the ball.

I have no problem with the back tees on the adjacent courses, I'll never have to play from there!

Jason, Sean Walsh is right on about the nature of the run up shot from the far left on #14 - you play straight into the slope with fewer odd bounces.  You also don't mess around with Hell at all.  Which is nice!

[RSLivingston_III]

On my first visits to TOC an R&A member/friend taught me to play around the left side of Hell and said most of the other members he knew play the hole that way. Of course, the last time there I pushed my second just a bit and ended up square in the middle of Hell.

[Tom_Doak]

Scott:

If every architect suggested just one bunker for The Old Course, it would be a mess.  So, I'll abstain from doing so, and I wish everyone else would, too.

If The Old Course is no longer challenging enough for the pros, then too bad for the pros.  (And tell Greg I said hi.)

[Scott Macpherson]

Don, JC, Bill,

I am not solely interested in how the Pros play the 14th either, but the R&A are, and when they play we get the chance to get play-data on the course. May I concentrate your thoughts on what John Low wrote in 1907 – and where I started this thread;

"It is the nearness of the hazards to the perfect line of play which seems to me to make St Andrews so fine a test of the game.” 

The bunkers are not as close to the perfect line as they were in previous centuries. Why? Because of the new tees.

Don- let me assure you, I have no desire to make the course 'tougher'. That is the easiest thing to do. I am sure Tom would agree. I would like the course to be more interesting, and more strategic. The bunker I am proposing is an extension of the Beardies – a now almost redundant set of hazards.

Please look at any aerial photos of the 14th hole to make yourselves familiar with the hollow I am talking of. If you like strategic design, what I am suggesting should be of interest to you.

Bill- The Pro's play the Old course every year in the Dunhill Cup, and the important amateur Links Trophy is also held annually.

I might add, and this is not in anyway to diminish the thought that should go into this process, that the cutting of bunkers is not an irreversible act. They can be filled in... and many have been on TOC in the past.

Scott


PS, JC – Thanks for mentioning my book. We don't get ESPN here, so I wasn't aware they had it.

[Ran Morrissett]

What a GREAT question, framed perfectly by Low's quote.

After all, if Old Tom was alive, isn't it fair to say he wouldn't feel the least compunction in adding a bunker if he was so inclined?

Scott, as an aside, do I read your post correctly in that 1904 was the last time a bunker was added? Also, do you know when was the last time a bunker was removed at The Old Course (and where was it)?

Cheers,

[Sean Walsh]

Scott,

Alliss just gave your book a huge huge plug.  Even mentioned the partnership with Turner.

[Melvyn Morrow]

In 1904 some 13 bunkers were added but something in the back of my mind seems to make me think that 1907/8 changes were made as the course was suffering under the management of Hamilton.

I do recall reading somewhere that the last bunker to be filled in was Hull Bunker on the 15 after WWII

Melvyn

[Niall C]

Scott

Three days into the competition, any further thoughts on the positioning of that bunker ? It would be interesting to see how many divot marks there are there.

Niall