The Worst Green On Tour?

[Tom_Doak]

It is rare for me to watch the average weekly PGA Tour event, so I apologize if I missed this when it happened, but I don't remember hearing anything about it until reading a small note in "Crittenden's Golf Business & Real Estate" newsletter, as follows:

"Quail Hollow Club president Johnny Harris seems to be taking Phil Mickelson's sharp criticism about a couple of his club's greens serious [sic] and is considering undergoing some renovation work before next year's PGA Tour Quail Hollow Championship.  Harris and Mickelson spoke informally at last month's U.S. Open in Pebble Beach and Harris reportedly told Mickelson he is thinking about redoing the unpopular three-tiered, par-4 eighth green and modifying the 12th green for the second time since the Tour event started in 2003.  Harris is even considering tweaking the 18th finishing hole, which has a couple of knobby spots that created a situation at this year's tournament where Mickelson actually putted away from the hole ... resulting in Mickleson to say the Quail Hollow's final green is the worst one on tour -- yet it's not even the worst green at the course.  That distinction, Mickelson said, goes to No. 12."


So, my questions are:

a)  Was this controversy noted at the time, or glossed over because of Rory McIlroy's final-round 62?

b)  Having never seen the course, are the greens in question more severe than run-of-the-mill Oakmont greens?  Are they way out of character with the other 15 greens on the course?

c)  Why would anyone want to design a golf course for a Tour event, if there is going to be this level of post-tournament micro-management to appease star players?

d)  Why don't they just make all the greens 1% so everyone will be happy?

[JESII]

So, my questions are:

a)  Was this controversy noted at the time, or glossed over because of Rory McIlroy's final-round 62?

Yes, albeit briefly.

b)  Having never seen the course, are the greens in question more severe than run-of-the-mill Oakmont greens?  Are they way out of character with the other 15 greens on the course?

Don't know either.

c)  Why would anyone want to design a golf course for a Tour event, if there is going to be this level of post-tournament micro-management to appease star players?

To have their name tied to a Tour course, but I guess you knew that part...

d)  Why don't they just make all the greens 1% so everyone will be happy?

Did you think maybe the green really is that bad?

[Bruce Wellmon]

I live near Charlotte. See The Charlotte Observer.
There were 2 previous articles, but I can't get them to come up on their website.


http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/06/17/1508014/harris-tells-mickelson-several.html

[Tom_Doak]

Mickelson is quoted in the story Bruce linked to as follows:

"I like Johnny a lot. I like the tournament a lot. I probably shouldn't have said what I said publicly. Although it's accurate, I probably shouldn't have said it," Mickelson said Thursday when asked about their conversation.

"It's not going to in any way deter me from playing that tournament, I love that tournament. I'm glad that he's open to trying to improve the golf course because tee to green it's one of the best I've ever seen."


I've highlighted the last part in honor of our recent thread about the importance of good greens.  Apparently, Phil is able to separate that component from the rest of the course and just praise the rest.  Either that, or he's come up with a new meaningless compliment soon to be used worldwide.

[Bruce Wellmon]

I found a previous article

http://green-side.blogspot.com/2010/05/harris-on-phils-comments-not-big-deal.html

[JESII]

I don't know Tom, this seems like an unnecessary attempt to bash Mickelson...and I'm not a Mickelson guy...

What's he really done wrong? Suggest a green or two were bad?

[Joshua Pettit]

Apparently, Phil is able to separate that component from the rest of the course and just praise the rest.  Either that, or he's come up with a new meaningless compliment soon to be used worldwide.

I'm inclined to think the latter.  I think you may be giving Phil too much credit.

[Carl Johnson]

Quoting from the second article (Green blog) that Bruce posted: "Mickelson was particularly bothered by a hole location on the right side of the 18th green. After hitting his second shot well beyond the hole, Mickelson was unable to putt toward the hole. Instead, he putted to the side then made an eight-footer for par."  What was noted as interesting at the time is that in order to make his point, Mickelson left the flag stick in for the first putt and told his caddy not to attend it.  I've never played the course, but have attended the tournament a number of times.  From my point of view as a golfer spectating the only green that seems out of character with the others is number 8, and they've already re-done that one once, maybe twice or more.


Read more: http://green-side.blogspot.com/2010/05/harris-on-phils-comments-not-big-deal.html#ixzz0t7VRKpes

[Tom_Doak]

I don't know Tom, this seems like an unnecessary attempt to bash Mickelson...and I'm not a Mickelson guy...

What's he really done wrong? Suggest a green or two were bad?

Jim:

I'm not trying to bash Phil, except as he is representative of a typical Tour pro complainer. 

But, it sounds very much like Mr. Harris is inclined to make changes because of Phil's comments, which is a bad trend.  And perhaps he is more inclined to make changes for Phil than he would be if, say, Ian Poulter was popping off on camera, in which case it's even worse.

I don't think that's really Phil's fault.  He is just being one of the guys, and nearly all of the guys have their complaints about course set-up sooner or later.

[Mike Benham]

I suggest the 4th at Spyglass ...

[JESII]

Tom,

I guess my point was, maybe the green really does stink...

[Ed Oden]

Tom, this was discussed at the time.  Here is a link to the previous thread... http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,44097.0/

In my opinion, Phil was way out of line on this one.  I think the 18th green at Quail is actually a very good green.  Again, Phil messed up and admitted so.  What he wanted was a green that afforded him an option to putt directly at the hole notwithstanding the fact me messed up. 

[Matthew Petersen]

Tom, this was discussed at the time.  Here is a link to the previous thread... http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,44097.0/

In my opinion, Phil was way out of line on this one.  I think the 18th green at Quail is actually a very good green.  Again, Phil messed up and admitted so.  What he wanted was a green that afforded him an option to putt directly at the hole notwithstanding the fact me messed up. 

I remember that putt and didn't get why he was so annoyed, either. If you are 50 feet long of the hole and off the green, it's accepted that the contours and/or hazards might require you to not play directly at the hole. Why should it be different on the green?

[Roger Wolfe]

I think its a well planned conspiracy...

Johnny wants to redo the greens but faces resistance from the membership... usually not an
issue but I am sure it's an annoyance.

He asks his good friend and confidante Mr. Mickelson to openly deride the greens on national
television.  With a potential Ryder Cup at stake... Johnny turns the tides and the membership
agrees to redo the greens.

Hey... it's possible! 

[Ian Andrew]

Harris reportedly told Mickelson he is thinking about redoing the unpopular three-tiered, par-4 eighth green

The obviously don't ask everyone, it's Mike Weir's favourite on the course.

[Art Roselle]

Having played there quite a bit, I was pretty surprised by the Mickelson comment.  You could argue that 8 and 12 are more severe than the rest of the greens and therefore somewhat out of character for the course, but Quail's greens are generally very interesting and very good.  I certainly cannot see anything wrong with the 18th green.  The fact that you can find yourself with an impossible putt (after a semi-wayward 2nd shot) does not make them bad, in my opinion.  That can certainly happen at some of the great courses in the world (the 6th at Riviera maybe being the most extreme example). 

Mickelson hit SW off the front of the green at Augusta's 14th, but I assume he is not critical of those greens.

[John Handley]

I would agree that #4 at Spyglass could rank as one of the worst greens of all time.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

hmmm 4 at Spyglass is one of my favorite short 4's in the world and that green is copied often. It is incredible in the unique shots one hits into it. I used to get a few beers and spend the last hour of daylight hitting and rehitting 20 balls to the green.