Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 18th Hole Now Posted)

[Tom Huckaby]

As one who loves Sand Hills more than any other course, perhaps to an irrational level, well... I too tire of the bashing.  I will say this - in this thread, it has been pretty darn well-reasoned and cordial, as least as opposed to previous bashfests which have not gone that way.  So given this historical context, well... it would have been nice to just have a love-fest for once, as the black and white thread about Ballyneal has gone.  Yes you without the historical context learn a lot from these discussions, I can dig that, so us veterans perhaps ought to keep our feelings to ourselves... but well... please do try to understand the historical context, and bear with us.

Now about labelling the holes... I have less talent for that than I do nipping 50 yard lob wedges off tight lies.. just figure that #1 is kinda of center right, going north... and the front nine goes pretty much clockwise on the right side thereafter... back nine is left side also going clockwise more or less.

[JC Jones]

Tom,

Thanks for the perspective.  I can say that in my 3-4 years watching and posting on this site I've never seen anyone criticize Sand Hills.  Man, those old days must have been rowdy around here.

[Matt Bosela]

Eric,

Here you are - I actually had already labelled this photo about a month before I played SH so I could learn about the routing before I played.

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom,

Thanks for the perspective.  I can say that in my 3-4 years watching and posting on this site I've never seen anyone criticize Sand Hills.  Man, those old days must have been rowdy around here.

Hmmmmm
I've sure seen it a lot, and in fact all of it has occurred in the last 3-4 years.  But perhaps I just look for it more.
A lot of it may have occurred off-line, also.  There are other worlds besides this forum.

In any case, it's just MY perspective and I certainly could be wrong.  I also tend to know most the principals, so that helps the perspective also.

[JC Jones]

Tom,

Thanks for the perspective.  I can say that in my 3-4 years watching and posting on this site I've never seen anyone criticize Sand Hills.  Man, those old days must have been rowdy around here.

Hmmmmm
I've sure seen it a lot, and in fact all of it has occurred in the last 3-4 years.  But perhaps I just look for it more.
A lot of it may have occurred off-line, also.  There are other worlds besides this forum.

In any case, it's just MY perspective and I certainly could be wrong.  I also tend to know most the principals, so that helps the perspective also.

I am now intrigued.  I'm going to search to find some of these threads.  

[Eric Smith]

LOL, thanks, Matt.  I just finished labeling the #'s on my aerial pic, following Huck's advice and damn it if I didn't get it right!  Gosh, it's ugly though compared to yours.  Using photobucket's draw feature, mine looked like my 4 year old drew the #'s with a red crayola.

[Tom Huckaby]

JC:

As I say, this thread has been the most cordial of these types.  There has been some fine discussion. Some fine architectural contentions have been made, if not valid points... but it's all been OK by me so far.

My recollection has been that in the past it has not quite gone this way.  But even that may also be wrong.  Maybe it's just the quantity.  But maybe also most if not all of it has occurred offline.

I don't know.  I just do have this perspective.  And I also know the man who used the "urination" comment, and he is an absolute prince of the game, perhaps the greatest not named Huntley.  Given this perspective also, well... he gets as much leeway as he wants in my book.

[JC Jones]

JC:

As I say, this thread has been the most cordial of these types.  There has been some fine discussion. Some fine architectural contentions have been made, if not valid points... but it's all been OK by me so far.

My recollection has been that in the past it has not quite gone this way.  But even that may also be wrong.  Maybe it's just the quantity.  But maybe also most if not all of it has occurred offline.

I don't know.  I just do have this perspective.  And I also know the man who used the "urination" comment, and he is an absolute prince of the game, perhaps the greatest not named Huntley.  Given this perspective also, well... he gets as much leeway as he wants in my book.

Tom,

Now, on to the architecture discussion.

[Tom Huckaby]

No problem JC... man take a look at #8, if you haven't already.

GREAT golf hole.

[Matt Bosela]

9th Hole - 402 Yards Par 4

As Ran has mentioned in his own writeup of SH, the 9th doesn't get much press compared to the other holes on the course but it is a strong hole in its own right.

The tee shot is played uphill and the ideal line is to go up the blind right hand side to not only take the more direct line at the green but also to take advantage of the kicker slopes beyond the hillside.  There is a centerline bunker slightly left of center that must be avoided and one of the defining features of the hole is the rather large spine that runs pretty much from the approach area all the way to the putting surface.  Shots that go left will fall well below the grade of the putting surface and leave a more difficult approach.

Even from the middle of the fairway, you have to trust your yardage, with some of the natural undulations of the rippling fairway causing some blindness to front pin positions.

The green is very wide and falls off severely on the left side.  While the green contouring is among the more subtle on the course, don't be fooled - even putts from the middle of the green hit toward the right side are treacherously fast and I'm sure many have seen a bold effort roll off the green into the collection area.

There may not be a more beautiful site than sitting on Ben's Porch at sunset and looking at how gorgeous the fairway undulations are on the 9th hole at Sand Hills.

Tee Shot


Approach from Middle of Fairway


Approach from Left Side of Fairway, showing how much lower when you fall down the spine


View of the fairway undulations at sunset from Ben's Porch


View from Behind Green, looking back up Fairway


View from Ben's Porch of 9th Green at Sunset




Glorious Sand Hills at Sunset

[Phil McDade]

OK, that's one cool-looking golf hole. That and #8 are convincing me a bit more re. the debate raging in my mind about this place.

For those who have played it, is #9 perhaps C&C's homage to the hog's back concept of a par 4?

[Tom Huckaby]

That's way too beardpulling of a question for me to handle, Phil.

9 is a very very cool golf hole.  It is a tough shot from that back tee... heck even getting it in the saddle is a fine effort.  But for longer hitters, and for me from the middle tee, it becomes vexing, again... how much hill do you bite off?  What club do you take it you safely play left?  Standard risk-reward stuff, but in an incredible setting... those pics don't shot how much very uphill the tee shot is.

Then the fairway, and the green... well the pics say enough there.  St. Andrews has nothing on this hole in terms of humps and hummocks and swales.

I'd make a comment about ho-hum greens, but Kenny appears to have left the building.

Side note:  I do have particular love for this hole as I stiffed a 9iron there to FINALLY win a match against my nemesis Miller, all played out in front of several onlooking GCAers lounging on the porch... oh yes, a fine golf moment... bringing my record to like 1-8 against Brad....

[Gene Greco]

Phil:

   First you say "these photo threads..are precisely the place for the kind of vigorous debate I believe Ran and others envisioned for this site."

Then you go on to abruptly state "I'm not sure of Ran's motivations.."

Which is it?

Ran RARELY posts mid thread about anything.

I'm sure he and Sweens were trying to move discussion over in order to preserve a nice photo thread - like the black and whites.  

[Tom Huckaby]

Gene - as I praise myself for my glories on 9, the ball is lobbed for you, regarding my failures on 4....

Want to spike it?

Regrets, I have a few... and this one, needs again to be mentioned.....

4 balls on green.  Mine the closest.  3 putts go in for birdies.  History in the balance as no set of 4 birdies has ever been made on that tough hole.

Huckaby misses his, from three inches away.

Oh well, I spiked it for you.  And given each telling the putt gets shorter and shorter, I just took it to what I hope is the limit.

 

[Gene Greco]

Gene - as I praise myself for my glories on 9, the ball is lobbed for you, regarding my failures on 4....

Want to spike it?

Regrets, I have a few... and this one, needs again to be mentioned.....

4 balls on green.  Mine the closest.  3 putts go in for birdies.  History in the balance as no set of 4 birdies has ever been made on that tough hole.

Huckaby misses his, from three inches away.

Oh well, I spiked it for you.  And given each telling the putt gets shorter and shorter, I just took it to what I hope is the limit.

 

When we got up to the green Huckaby's ball was in the hole.

However, for some unknown reason he decided to take it out of the hole, rest it on the lip and putt it for a birdie instead.

But he whiffed that and settled for a par.

[Tom Huckaby]

 

OK, that has me dying.

God I am a selfish bastard.

 

[Tom Huckaby]

OK as long as I am rolling.. and we have seen 9....

What also needs to be noted is that this 9 holes comprises one of the coolest things I have ever been able to do in golf... and that is what Gene describes as the "Church nine."

We've discussed it before in here.  But for those who haven't tired of me rambling on it....

You've already played a lot of holes one day there.  You are relaxing on the porch.  The light is like it is in these pictures of 9 right here.

If the spirit moves you... take your bag, take as many clubs as you think are necessary, walk... by yourself.... start on #1, do however many you want to do... all 9 being the best of course....

That is as close to a higher being as one can get on a golf course, I think.  It is difficult to describe.  But if one is of the ilk that golf can have a spiritual mode, well... that is why this is called the Church Nine.  It is just so peaceful.. so tranquil.. so beautiful... and then one has those incredibly fun golf shots to play...

My gosh I was lucky to be able to do that.

[Scott Szabo]

That's way too beardpulling of a question for me to handle, Phil.

9 is a very very cool golf hole.  It is a tough shot from that back tee... heck even getting it in the saddle is a fine effort.  But for longer hitters, and for me from the middle tee, it becomes vexing, again... how much hill do you bite off?  What club do you take it you safely play left?  Standard risk-reward stuff, but in an incredible setting... those pics don't shot how much very uphill the tee shot is.

Then the fairway, and the green... well the pics say enough there.  St. Andrews has nothing on this hole in terms of humps and hummocks and swales.

I'd make a comment about ho-hum greens, but Kenny appears to have left the building.

Side note:  I do have particular love for this hole as I stiffed a 9iron there to FINALLY win a match against my nemesis Miller, all played out in front of several onlooking GCAers lounging on the porch... oh yes, a fine golf moment... bringing my record to like 1-8 against Brad....

Huck,

I had a similar experience at number 9.  I was playing the final hole in our match with Christian and his buddy and there were several on the porch (I'm sure waiting anxiously to hear how our match turned out as the boys had not been beaten to that point  ).  We had a front left pin a few paces on the green and I hit the pin and stopped a few inches away for a closing birdie.  The porch erupted, so it must have come close to going in the hole.  It will always be one of my most memorable moments in all of golf.  

[Scott Szabo]

Gene - as I praise myself for my glories on 9, the ball is lobbed for you, regarding my failures on 4....

Want to spike it?

Regrets, I have a few... and this one, needs again to be mentioned.....

4 balls on green.  Mine the closest.  3 putts go in for birdies.  History in the balance as no set of 4 birdies has ever been made on that tough hole.

Huckaby misses his, from three inches away.

Oh well, I spiked it for you.  And given each telling the putt gets shorter and shorter, I just took it to what I hope is the limit.

 

The tale I heard had you at least 3 FEET away....

[Tom Huckaby]

Scott:

BINGO!  That was much how mine was... amen brother, and well done.

I played with Christian when he was like 12 and had to play from the short tees... I fear the boy/man that he has become.  He'd own me.  I could see it then.  Hell he damn near did it then.

So I would have erupted also for you, my friend.

 

As for my failures on 4, you heard likely the 10th re-telling if it got down to 3 feet.

 

[Phil McDade]

Phil:

   First you say "these photo threads..are precisely the place for the kind of vigorous debate I believe Ran and others envisioned for this site."

Then you go on to abruptly state "I'm not sure of Ran's motivations.."

Which is it?

Ran RARELY posts mid thread about anything.

I'm sure he and Sweens were trying to move discussion over in order to preserve a nice photo thread - like the black and whites.  

Gene:

To each his own. Again, I'm not sure of Ran's motivations for posting on the XYZ thread. If you know them, feel free to share. I'm guessing the motivations of folks who want to discuss the merits of particular holes and courses on photo threads who post on said threads is to learn more about them, and have a spirited debate about them. If Ran doesn't like that, he can start deleting all commentary on photo threads (it's his site, and we're all guests here). But it will be a lesser site if he does so, in my view.

Sorry if I've offended your sensibilities. I probably have a unique position here among the regular posters on this board, as I'm pretty sure I've played fewer great courses (and fewer good ones, as well) than anyone registered to post here. I belong to no club, never have, don't play anywhere regularly, and don't golf much anymore. I'm a disinterested observer with a great deal of interest in learning about golf architecture -- and this site, and in particular photo threads like this, remain the single best source I've found for learning more about the merits of golf courses.

[Scott Szabo]

Scott:

BINGO!  That was much how mine was... amen brother, and well done.

I played with Christian when he was like 12 and had to play from the short tees... I fear the boy/man that he has become.  He'd own me.  I could see it then.  Hell he damn near did it then.

So I would have erupted also for you, my friend.

 

As for my failures on 4, you heard likely the 10th re-telling if it got down to 3 feet.

 

Christian has turned into a fine young man, and a great golfer.  It was a pleasure to play a round or two with him, and it's not hard to see where he gets his charm from - the apple didn't fall too far from the tree in this case.  Hits it a mile and has a great iron game to go along with it.

Must be neat for Gene to be able to share the Sand Hills experience with his son.  It has to build a bond that will extend a lifetime.

[Tom Huckaby]

Christian is indeed a lucky lad.
But what's cool is I think he knows it.
And oh yes, sharing that - and many other places - with one's son... golf cannot get any better than that.

I have to admit.... helll I must be biased about the place... I have never been there without the company of extraordinary people.  That would have to color one's view.  I tend to believe that I could play there with Satan and still have fun given it's such a great golf course.. but who knows.

So OK... great tour so far Matt, even with the sidetracks.  Thanks again.

[George Pazin]

Matt, thanks for forging on with the pix, much appreciated.

Fully assess?  No. But there are some courses where people spend a lifetime playing them and learn something everytime they go out. 

If you're talking about a "rating," yes.  Now, a course might go up or down 1 point on the scale with repeat play but 1 or 2 plays, to someone who has seen a bunch of courses and has a pretty good idea of things, is sufficient.

Otherwise, toss out almost all the ratings in the Confidential Guide.

Big difference between Tom D and damn near all other raters.

[Gene Greco]

Phil:

   That's exactly how I feel. Many people here have not had the opportunity to actually get behind the wheel and instead live vicariously through the pics which are presented here.

That's why an accurate comment is paramount so that one is not misled.

If an individual with an ax to grind and an agenda posts something outright ludicrous stating Carne is better architectuarlly than a course many believe is the greatest in the world than that silliness needs to be addressed.

And Ran Morrissett did so on the xyz thread calling out Mr Mihm's post as one which is misinformed and subsequently of no use to your education.

He VERY RARELY does that.