pics from Harbor Shores in MI

[PThomas]

the full 18 holes opened July 1...formerly a huge waste site; I was told they removed a football field of garbage 7 stories high out of there....protected wetland areas there as well, so routing was probably quite tricky, which probably explains why there are some long cart rides between some of the holes...course was in terrific condition, btw

1st hole tee shot



1st green..lots of movement and  humps and the like on these greens

[PThomas]

par 3 2nd



short and left of 2nd green



2nd green

[PThomas]

3rd hole, dogleg left, driveable over the left buners for you big hitters althought water all down the left





3rd green



par 3 4th



approach to par 5 5th

[Steve Burrows]

Any idea of the new location of that 7-story football field of trash?  "Out of sight, out of mind" doesn't necessarily make things better, at least in a larger, regional sense.  That stuff doesn't just disappear.

[PThomas]

Any idea of the new location of that 7-story football field of trash?  "Out of sight, out of mind" doesn't necessarily make things better, at least in a larger, regional sense.  That stuff doesn't just disappear.

i do not know Steve

[PThomas]

5th green



dowhill 2nd to 6th, a dogleg right



tee shot on 7, a dogleg right



2nd on 7 - its about 50 feet up to the green...tip of flag is barely visible in the center of the picture



8th tee, dogleg right...i hit my shot a little left of the crane which was perfect leaving me only about 100 in

[PThomas]

2nd to the 8th



9th, par 5 dogleg left, a hazard creeping in from the left



10 tee, downhill par 5



10 green...had to be at least a 6 feet rise there...the biggest green Jack has ever built, they say



another view of 10 green



par 3 11th

[PThomas]

last 4 pictures.....par 3 13th



2nd to par 4 16th..drive must also flirt with the hazard on the left side



par 3 17th



deceptive 18th tee..thats not a center bunker, you must play left of it or hit it big to carry it and the right side trouble



6981, 6422, 6032 and 5156...said they might make the 2nd set a little longer

believe its 143 from the tips...not a course for the faint of heart

[Jon Heise]

Son of a gun... my tee time there is 10am tomorrow.  I was hoping I could be the cool guy who gets to post the first pics of a new GC...   Anyway, they're nice teasers, and I'm getting even more excited now!

[PCCraig]

Are 7 and 8 the holes closest to the lake and dunes...the ones that they had to jump through hoops for in order to build them on the site of an old parking lot or something like that?

[PThomas]

Are 7 and 8 the holes closest to the lake and dunes...

correct

[Mark Smolens]

Thanks for the tour, Paul. I'm back to Lost Dunes next month, and hoping to sneak up to Harbor Shores on our first day. . . looks like it will be worth the detour.

[Tim Gavrich]

It looks really cool; it's really interesting how Nicklaus' style has evolved over the years.  There are a lot of features that I see from the pictures of Harbor Shores that one certainly would not find down at Pawleys Plantation, with which I am familiar.  That par 3 17th looks like an awesome little run-up shot; does the course play firm enough to allow for it?

Cheers.

--Tim

[Jud_T]

Paul, thanks for the pics.  Drove by last month on the way back from Kingsley and was intrigued.  Looks like it's worth a stop next time!

[PThomas]

It looks really cool; it's really interesting how Nicklaus' style has evolved over the years.  There are a lot of features that I see from the pictures of Harbor Shores that one certainly would not find down at Pawleys Plantation, with which I am familiar.  That par 3 17th looks like an awesome little run-up shot; does the course play firm enough to allow for it?

Cheers.

--Tim

Tim - yes i think it was firm enough to do that

[Jon Heise]

It looks really cool; it's really interesting how Nicklaus' style has evolved over the years.  There are a lot of features that I see from the pictures of Harbor Shores that one certainly would not find down at Pawleys Plantation, with which I am familiar.  That par 3 17th looks like an awesome little run-up shot; does the course play firm enough to allow for it?

Cheers.

--Tim

Tim - yes i think it was firm enough to do that

Ok, so I'll confirm that it IS firm enough.  I swiped one way out to the right today, pin high.  The runoffs are perfect for using the putter (actually got up and down that way on the 2 long par 3s on the back).

My take on the course was very, very positive.  Open in some parts, tighter in others, you definitely have to position yourself correctly.  The fairways play very fast, making the 6900 yds not too bad.  The greens were perfect, in fact the condition of the entire course immaculate, fast and true.  There were lots of subtle contours, then some very bold movements in the greens.  Means you had to find the right segment, or you're in trouble.  There were a couple spots where it looked like a bunker was just plopped into a landing area (#10), but nothing boring or repetitive.  Loved the big dip in #10's green.  The MASSIVE drop isnt very intimidating when you get there, but like the big dip in a green like #4 at Lost Dunes, you just have to use the right strategy going into it.  I hit an easy driver/easy 3wood to about 40 yards, with the pin up front in the "bowl".  Pretty easy up and in.  You can go for it in 2 and have the slope help you, itll actually kind of protect it from going too far past (if a front pin).  Now, if the pin is way back, of course you can lay back a bit and wedge it in to one of the tiers (which are pretty distinct).

The pace was brutal.  I was a single, playing behind 3 4somes.  I knew what I was gettng into.  But it still took 5 hours to get around, even skipping 1/2 of 16...  C'mon.  Not fun in 90° after paying $125.

Overall, I really liked it.  The "tee markers" which are sculptures with a synopsis of Jack's 18 majors greets you on each tee, and is a great touch.  I'll need another play, but I could see this sneaking into the bottom half of my top 5 Michigan courses...  NICE!

[Peter Pratt]

I haven't played HS yet, but it's hard not to see Doak's influence on the Nicklaus greens.

[Tim Nugent]

I haven't played HS yet, but it's hard not to see Doak's influence on the Nicklaus greens.

I was thinking the same thing, guess Jack was paying attention at Sebonic. Just wondering also what all the Jack bashers thought when they saw these pics?

[Ronald Montesano]

We all know what RTJ2 did at Chambers Bay; he has done something similar at Hickory Stick:  created a course where runners and fliers co-exist, where the element (not the architect) take center stage and where golfers experience what this forum has been devouring since ... well, since Sand Hills (even though the forum did not exist in its present iteration then.)

Next, JW Nicklaus is a businessman...he is not stupid.  If this is what the client wants, that is what Jack will build in this climate.

Finally, yes, Tom Doak and Jim Urbina (et al) had to have influenced the olden bear during their time together in the Hamptons.  Sebonack (the creek is spelled Sebonac, which leads to all sorts of confused spelling attempts) will represent a union of sorts when students of GCA look back at this period, 100 years from now.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Evolved and influenced seem hardly appropriate words.

[Ronald Montesano]

How so, Mike?  Evolved is stronger than influenced, but say a little more about what you mean.

When I wrote "influenced," my insinuation was that a) JW Nicklaus is a changed architect who will now build F&F courses that GCA Forum nuts cherish; b) JW Nicklaus is a sharpie who knows what is selling and, chameleon-like, shifts toward that paradigm in order to pitch his goods; c) something between the two polarizing statements made above.

[Jud_T]

Ron,

Good point about JN's business acumen.  One question though:  Going under your assumption that he's appealing toward the minimalist camp, do you think given his playing career that he'll really be able to embrace quirk, blind shots and "unfair" bounces in his design?

[PCCraig]

Ron,

Good point about JN's business acumen.  One question though:  Going under your assumption that he's appealing toward the minimalist camp, do you think given his playing career that he'll really be able to embrace quirk, blind shots and "unfair" bounces in his design?

I think Jack has studied what he and his team need to get the "look" of a minimalist course, however it seems they still play practically the same as his previous design period courses.

[Terry Lavin]

Ron,

Good point about JN's business acumen.  One question though:  Going under your assumption that he's appealing toward the minimalist camp, do you think given his playing career that he'll really be able to embrace quirk, blind shots and "unfair" bounces in his design?

Let's not elevate quirk over solid design, but more to your point, Nicklaus courses have long been known for unfair bounces, particularly on and around the greens.

[PThomas]

Ron,

Good point about JN's business acumen.  One question though:  Going under your assumption that he's appealing toward the minimalist camp, do you think given his playing career that he'll really be able to embrace quirk, blind shots and "unfair" bounces in his design?

I think Jack has studied what he and his team need to get the "look" of a minimalist course, however it seems they still play practically the same as his previous design period courses.

Pat if that means they play pretty hard i'd say thats true based on this course and the Idaho Club which i also played recently...Peter F did a picture tour of that and i think commented how difficult it was, which I agree with!