Trump awarded planning permission for Scottish course

[Adam Lawrence]

Just received confirmation that final planning approval has been received, and construction will start on Thursday.

Adam

[Richard Choi]

It will be the greatest course ever!

[Simon Holt]

All politics aside, from a pure golf course standpoint, they have a wonderful opportunity to build something very special.  The land is incredible.  Lets watch that space for the next couple of years.  Good luck to them- as long as its done it the right way.

[Dave Falkner]

I wonder how Trumps business practice of giving contractors haircuts will go over in Scotland

 

[Melvyn Morrow]

It was a foregone conclusion he would get it.

My concern is will the course reflect the Scottish courses scattered both North and South. Or will excuses be make to allow money to  override the balance between land and the beautiful setting for the course.

Will we get a Spanish resort complex or a compromise package trying to be all things to all golfers or just follow the traditional course lines that makes a good links course.

I fear, no dread a compromise, a mixture of values which will  be fighting each other at every opportunity instead of letting the land and location speak for themselves.

The thought of a golfing Disneyland scars the hell out of me because IMHO it will lead to further watering down of the game we call golf.

In the end it is all in the hands of the designer, lets hope he has studied the area well and UNDERSTANDS that as it is being build on a beautiful part of Scotland’s coast all visitors will be expecting that Scottish touch. Fail with that and what would have been the point in going to all that expense of building the course here in Scotland in the first place. 

Final judgement can only be made as one walks off the 18th Green, but there is a real opportunity to build a great course yet it must reflect and bed into its environment.

A Mona Lisa or Picasso ‘A Woman with a Flower’ whatever I hope there is not fake ageing.

Melvyn     

[Matt_Ward]

Where precisely is the course going to be located ?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Matt

If I had my way it would replace the Castle Course at St Andrews

Melvyn

[Bill_McBride]

It's only going to work if a lot of high-end real estate is sold, which in itself is going to relegate this project to compromise and potential mediocrity.

Has the golf ever come first in a real estate development?

[Matt_Ward]

Bill:

yeah -- it's called Pebble Beach !

[Brian_Ewen]

The thought of a golfing Disneyland scars the hell out of me because IMHO it will lead to further watering down of the game we call golf.

Melvyn
Its hard to believe it could be watered down anymore than it already is .

[Richard Choi]

Melvyn, one word for ya...

Waterfalls

[Adam Lawrence]

Matt - it is about ten miles north of Aberdeen, on the road to Cruden Bay.

Bill - They have said the real estate is on hold for the moment; their priority is to get the golf course built, as that's the anchor for the entire proposed development. The housing and hotel are both away from the dunes where the course is to be located (not in a million years would they have got planning permission to build houses in those dunes). So we shall see. All I will say is that it is a truly beautiful piece of land, and the potential exists to do something really great. Will that potential be realised? We have to wait till 2012 (or maybe late next year, once construction is done) to find out.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Brian

They keep trying and those sods at the R&A are doing their usual SFA.  If my malt was as diluted as golf has become I would give it up as there would be no point drinking it - might as well just drink water. If you see what I mean.

Melvyn

[Harris Nepon]

Has it been mentioned who would do the design?

[Adam Lawrence]

Harris - Martin Hawtree has done the design - pretty much the whole of his company has been all over the property for the last three years or so.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Richard

Waterfalls – waterfalls on a Links course, boy Richards what have you been drinking, but no you could be right. If Trump is happy to go around with that haircut then I would not put it past him. Hell never thought of that one, yes that would certainly turn it into a fun park. But the buildings are also appalling from the designs I have seen, very Disney like and certainly not suitable for Scotland.

Old Tom build an 9 hole course not far away near Collieston some 6 miles south of Cruden Bay for the same family that owned Askernish.  I still have hopes that someone will take that on and re build the course there, utilising the accommodation from Trumps new resort just to the South. Gordon Irving mentioned he wanted to call in this Summer to view the site, so who knows. 

Melvyn

[Niall C]

Matt - it is about ten miles north of Aberdeen, on the road to Cruden Bay.

Bill - They have said the real estate is on hold for the moment; their priority is to get the golf course built, as that's the anchor for the entire proposed development. The housing and hotel are both away from the dunes where the course is to be located (not in a million years would they have got planning permission to build houses in those dunes). So we shall see. All I will say is that it is a truly beautiful piece of land, and the potential exists to do something really great. Will that potential be realised? We have to wait till 2012 (or maybe late next year, once construction is done) to find out.

Adam

Is that there line about holding off on the resi part until the course is built ? From what I've seen of the masterplan the course shouldn't make any difference to selling houses as its not going to be second home buyers looking for a holiday home besdie the course that are going to buying up the 500 (?) houses that are planned. Likewise, Aberdeen is crying out for hotel accommodation and that has nothing to do with golf courses.

I strongly suspect that it might have a lot to do with funding.

Niall

[Adam Lawrence]

Niall - yeah, I think you're probably right about funding. Or at least that they realise there's no point bringing hundreds of houses to the market in the next three years. In terms of the project as a whole, it is a ten year build at least, I suspect.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Matt
[In my best Wardian tone] Doesn't you really know how to use the google.... [In my best Wardian tone/]

www.trumpgolfscotland.com
www.hawtree.co.uk

I assume it is going to turn out very well given the land and architect.

[Adam Lawrence]

Matt
[In my best Wardian tone] Doesn't you really know how to use the google.... [In my best Wardian tone/]

www.trumpgolfscotland.com
www.hawtree.co.uk

I assume it is going to turn out very well given the land and architect.

Mike - interestingly, they've taken the old site - which had a lot of site photos and other interesting information - down, and it says there's a new site under construction. I assume they'll launch something fancy once they get into construction and have something new to share.

[James Boon]

I found a load of stuff on the Council's website which makes fascinating reading, though I'll need some time to go into all the habitat mitigation reports etc. However, the course itself... This looks to be the current proposals taking account of various habitat constraints etc set over the previous layout.
http://www.ukplanning.com/aberdeenshire/doc/Drawing-8193655.pdf?extension=.pdf&id=8193655&location=VOLUME6&contentType=application/pdf&pageCount=1

Also, a copy of the submitted topo survey
http://www.ukplanning.com/aberdeenshire/doc/Drawing-8193659.pdf?extension=.pdf&id=8193659&location=VOLUME6&contentType=application/pdf&pageCount=1

Also, here is a link to the residential masterplan architects website
http://www.garethhoskinsarchitects.co.uk/projects/masterplanning/golf-resort-and-residential-development

Cheers,

James

[Bill_McBride]

Bill:

yeah -- it's called Pebble Beach !

Good one!

So that's what, 1 in 10,000?

[Matt_Ward]

Bill:

You asked, "has golf EVER (my emphasis) come first."

I answered it -- PB did that.

In fact when Pete Dye did Casa de Campo I believe the layout there was the priority -- ditto when Lawrence Rockefeller hired RTJ to do his design at Mauna Kea. It does happen.

[David_Tepper]

Article on the project in today's Press and Journal, the daily newspaper in Aberdeen:

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1805826

[Andrew Calcutt]

First, if the course is relative to anything Trump puts his name on, (or his hair), excluding the Trump Tower in Chicago,
it will be a giant pile of Scottish sheep turds, gold, waterfalls, and wasted space.  Let's also note that while good looking,
the Trump Tower is over half-empty.  I don't think the old Scottish real estate market is faring much better than 
graft-ville (Chicago).

Second, the environment does not need more golf courses, especially one built by the most ludicrous and assinine celebrity businessman.  He is a lousy developer who seeks luxury over aesthetics, and audacity over discretion.

Third, Trump cheats at golf.  A friend of mine used to caddy at Trump National, and has witnessed first hand, Trump's caddy's
drop wedge routine.  "Trump doesn't lose a ball," is what the caddy master used to say up there.  Cheaters should be barred
from building golf courses, or putting their footprint near a course in golf's motherland.

I hope the environmental terrorists get to Trump's work before Trump gets to work.

Andrew