News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Tony_Chapman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Folks in Nebraska are jazzed about the 2013 U.S. Senior Open being hosted by our state's grandest old club; Omaha County Club. This course had many architectural hands in it's early days, but the course recognizes itself as a Perry Maxwell course as he completely re-worked OCC in 1951. Chris Clouser could verify, but most believe this to be his final project before passing away. True to that work, the club brough in Keith Foster a few years ago to bring out Maxwell's work that had been hidden beneath a bunch of trees. Green keeper Tom Athy has done a tremendous job with the course.

Yesterday began the Nebraska Match Play and it took 81 to make the 64-man field -- 13 players for the last eight spots. Green said to be running 12 on the Stimpmeter and wonderfully difficult to putt. No one broke par. TEPaul's favorite native and Texas A&M golfer John Hurley defends his title.

www.omahacc.org

http://www.omaha.com/article/20100628/SPORTS/706289821/-1#golf-only-three-match-par-in-match-play-qualifier

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2010, 10:00:29 AM »
I've heard nothing but great things about Keith Foster and his work.  Seeing the US Senior Open held at one of his courses/rennovations should be great fun!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2010, 10:40:40 AM »
I had a chance to ride around the course last year. A lot of elevation change.   It looks great; challenging and fun. 
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Chris_Clouser

Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2010, 10:42:15 AM »
I've heard nothing but good things about the work at Omaha and have talked with Keith about it.  I hope to get out there and see it sometime later this year or early next.  

Maxwell did not redo the entire course, but he did change a significant amount of it.  I believe the work by Keith was to create that similar look throughout the course.  

Omaha was perhaps the last completed project Maxwell saw.  It might have also been the course at Lake Hefner depending on when he last visited that project.  He also had two courses in Dallas that had begun construction that were finished by his son after Perry's death, Oak Cliff and River Hills.  

Tony_Chapman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2010, 10:54:31 AM »
Chris -- Thanks for that information. From some of my friends who are playing in the touranment they are raving about the place. How wonderfully hard it is; but super fun to play. I think it be great to really get to the bottom of it architectural heritage before the 2013 US Senior Open. I know Omaha will put on a great show!

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2010, 11:03:45 AM »
Jeffery Brauer seemed to have a lot of insight into the lineage.

As for the course, the only crit I could come up with was a repetitive nature of a couple of the par 3's. Some may find the bunker stylings not to their liking, but all in all OCC is one of the great parkland courses I've seen. Fun and playable. The par 4 4th is one great hole.

"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Tony_Chapman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2010, 11:38:48 AM »
Adam -- Thanks for the pic. I've just driven by, so can't really comment. The bunkers remind me of the "Maxwell style" that we see maybe at the 7th at Augusta? I'm not sure and I'm no expert. Just played at Salina CC with my brother a few weeks ago and the bunkers there were much like these as well.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2010, 02:08:50 PM »
Adam, thanks for the photo of the 4th.  What makes it a great hole is the fact that the fairway is sunken and blind from the tee.

This course will be a good test for the seniors, with 10 uphill approaches, some relatively severe.  The repetitive one-shotters that Adam refers to are the 3rd and 15th, both of which play 210 yards +/- downhill.  Internal green contours are relatively subtle with the exception of the par five 16th's. 

I liked this course a lot and am guessing it would fall between 100 and 150 on Golfweek's Classic list which is no small feat.  Can't wait to watch the tournament.

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2010, 10:04:13 PM »
Looking at photos on the website.... all I can say is wow! Looks like Southern Hills with bent grass.

Makes a Husker proud :)
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Mitchell Schneringer

Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2010, 10:41:34 PM »
I've played it twice since the changes were complete, and it's a fantastic golf course.  There is a lot of elevation change throughout the course, and the greens are perfect.  I'm excited for the 2013 US Senior Open. 

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2010, 12:52:48 AM »
Looks very cool indeed.  Whatever people may say about that Maxwell bunker style that is evident at Southern Hills, Old Town Club, and Omaha CC, it is different-looking than those of the other Old Dead Guys.

How does it figure to compare to the likes of Southern Hills and Old Town?
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2010, 07:17:42 AM »
Jeffery Brauer seemed to have a lot of insight into the lineage.

As for the course, the only crit I could come up with was a repetitive nature of a couple of the par 3's. Some may find the bunker stylings not to their liking, but all in all OCC is one of the great parkland courses I've seen. Fun and playable. The par 4 4th is one great hole.



I did do some work there years ago, and have interviewed for other work, including being the "other" finalist to Keith Foster, but one with much less Maxwell recreation experience.

That fourth hole was my interview waterloo years earlier when they interviewed Ben Crenshaw and myself for work that was never done.  There was a huge cottonwood tree on the right front of the green, whose roots you could see in the putting surface, and which shaded the green entirely.  However, it was a club members favorite, and before I went out on the tour, I was told that they would like to save that tree at all costs.

When I viewed the maintenance problems it caused, I knew it had to go, so when they asked if I could save the tree in the redesign I answered, "Sure, just tell me where to stack the logs."

They told me that the fifth green ( a steep par 3 green) was actually the very last green Maxwell saw when alive.  No way to know if that is true, but its one of the very last, to be sure.  As to similarities on the par 3 holes, the old 3rd was a reverse punchbowl green based on old aerial photos I saw. It was removed in the 60's as being too out of character, but I would have liked to seen the green and maybe rebuilt it. 
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2010, 08:13:43 AM »
They told me that the fifth green ( a steep par 3 green) was actually the very last green Maxwell saw when alive.  No way to know if that is true, but its one of the very last, to be sure.  As to similarities on the par 3 holes, the old 3rd was a reverse punchbowl green based on old aerial photos I saw. It was removed in the 60's as being too out of character, but I would have liked to seen the green and maybe rebuilt it. 

Jeff, it was my understanding that the 5th was originally a short uphill par four.   That's not necessarily inconsistent with your comment as I was under the impression that it was changed some time ago.  Most interesting is the fact that this would have moved the 6th tee to the right of its current location and well up the hill, making it a dogleg right with a severe reverse cant in the fairway.  It's almost impossible to hold that fairway now from the tee as everything rolls dramatically to the left - I can't imaging holding it without a cut from the original tee if that's a correct recollection. 

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Tony_Chapman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2010, 09:54:28 PM »
I've not seen the fifth other than pictures, but a co-worker played in the qualifier on Monday and is a very good player (the Nebraska Mid-Amateur champ) and he shot 83. On the fifth, he hit the green, had a 25-footer for birdie and made seven.  :o

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2010, 10:36:47 PM »

Here's a pic of the 5th. easily one of the best par 3's in the state. The openness allows for a rare feeling of intimacy, on this type of parkland course, with views of other holes/greens. (Think VC@Montecito) Combine an ill-at-ease feeling, associated with the lack of a frame of reference, from the openness, with the bold slopes on and around the green, and the player's mind's eye can easily get sucked out, leaving him that last moment just prior to striking, blind as a bat. The only thing left to do is make solid contact and hope you get left if you miss. There's an apron cut out over there, past the two bunkers, that allows the fortunate miss to play directly up the hill, with a chance for par.

Jeff, If you have any lineage info you'd rather share off line, please IM me?
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Matt_Ward

Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2010, 11:49:20 PM »
Tony:

Assuming that SH would be a Doak 10 -- what rating number of his would you give Omaha CC ?

Also, what will be the yardage you see the senior plays the course -- tip tees?

Do you know the CR and SL from the back ?

Just for my own edification -- I have played Firethorn and really enjoyed it -- a superb Pete Dye sleeper that few ever mention here.

If you had ten rounds between the two how would you split them?

thanks for any info you can provide ...

Tony_Chapman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2010, 03:04:10 PM »
Matt -- Wish I could chime in and give you an answer, but I've never played OCC. I can tell you it's regarded in our state with Sand Hills, Firethorn and Wild Horse and most would tell you there is a big drop after that. Clearly, it'd be the best parkland style course in the state. I think the work of Superintendent Tom Athy should be commended and member Patrick Duffy, a former state champion and Prairie Dunes member, for spearheading the restoration and bringing the Senior Open here.

Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2010, 03:29:27 PM »
I seem to recall prior to Sand Hills and Firethorn opening that it was rated #1 in the state for many years... in the last couple of decades it seemed to have been surpassed by those other two, although that may be as much to do with the quality of those two courses as anything else.

Never really had a chance to play Firethorn... now that I don't get to Lincoln anymore I won't get the chance anytime soon, which is a shame because I always wanted to.

American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Tony_Chapman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2010, 11:27:57 PM »
Attention Tom Paul. Book yourself an early flight to Omaha tomorrow. It's John Hurley again in the finals (won his semifinal 6&4, playing his 14 holes in 4-under). He'll play McCook's Brandon Crick who started his college career at Gonzaga and now just finished at Nebraska and will turn pro at the end of the summer.

http://www.nebgolf.org/Tournaments/matchplay/index.htm

Mitchell Schneringer

Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2010, 12:01:01 AM »
Tony,

I don't really think Wild Horse is in the same category as Sand Hills, Firethorn and Omaha Country Club.  I've played them all, and while Wild Horse is nice it's not the same experience as the other 3 courses.  I played Firethorn in college a lot, and it's really a very difficult course that penalizes slight misses.  Omaha Country Club can also be very penalizing on missed approach shots.'

Although I've never played Southern Hills, I have walked the course a few times.  OCC and Southern Hills seem to have a very similar feel to me.  OCC might have more elevation, and Southern Hills has tighter driving with the overhanging trees.

Nebraska has some really good golf courses, and it's exciting to see the development of more courses in the state. 

Chris_Clouser

Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2010, 12:43:12 AM »
That picture of the 4th reminds of another Maxwell hole at a course in Enid called Oakwood.  It is almost exaclty like the 10th hole on that course only I believe the hole at Oakwood is about 40 yards longer if I recall right. 

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2010, 09:28:42 AM »
Tony,

I don't really think Wild Horse is in the same category as Sand Hills, Firethorn and Omaha Country Club.  I've played them all, and while Wild Horse is nice it's not the same experience as the other 3 courses.  

Mitchell, You likely won't get much agreement here on that.

The "experience" usually has so little to do with the architecture and is typically periphery related. WH's architecture, is top notch. How could it not? Dan and Dave built it. Since others have brought up the D scale. WH is at least an 8, while both OCC and Firethorn are not.

 It's $50 green fee and public access must affect people's opinion of the golf course. It has all the principles for great golf.

Courses where slight misses are non-recoverable, or severely penalized, with the same repetitious shot demand, is not quality. Difficult yes, quality?... not necessarily.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2010, 01:10:57 PM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2010, 11:03:31 AM »
Matt, not sure about the Doak Scale but I would assume most would rate this course a 6 or 7 on just about any scale.  I'll pull the scorecard tonight and report back on the course and slope ratings.

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Tony_Chapman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2010, 04:58:00 PM »
Mr. Ward -- Gold tees used for the championship are 74.3 and 135, it plays as a par-71. Yardage from the back tees is 6,746. I have to think that though it's built as a "par-5" green they may play the downhill 10th as a par-4 for the Senior Open reducing par to 70. It's 506 yards, but, as I said is downhill, and would also have a tee at 467 they could use.

For those who care, John Hurley (TomPaul's favorite amateur since Davis Love III) successfully defended his trophy today with a 5&3 win over Brandon Crick. He played 32 holes in 5-under. And exceprt from Omaha World-Herald writer Stu Pospisil's story on Hurley's round of 16 match:

Quote
Only a few Omaha Country Club members saw it, but be sure many more will claim they were there Wednesday when John Hurley tamed their monster closing hole with a 360-yard drive and a 97-yard wedge shot.

Hurley needed that birdie, too, to gain a 1-up victory over Lincoln’s Jayson Brueggemann and make Thursday’s quarterfinals of the Nebraska men’s match-play championship.

“I’ve struggled all week with the drive off 18,’’ said the tournament’s defending champion, who will be a senior at Texas A&M. “But I told myself there’s a lot of fairway out there, so you have to go for it.’’

By catching a downslope on the 461-yard hole that plays across a valley, the O’Neill big bopper had a second shot about 100 yards shorter than did Brueggemann, who knocked his iron shot into a greenside bunker.

“John’s a great player and a better person,’’ Brueggemann said. “I tried to stay up with him and did so most of the match. No one got more than one hole up.’’

Here is the 10th:

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keith Foster's Omaha CC re-do makes it's competitive debut
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2010, 05:48:50 PM »
Tony, I'm curious about the tenth.   There is a very steep drop off in the fairway from the tee that's actually beyond what appears to be the end of the fairway in the photograph. There's another 50 yards of fairway down there that isn't visible in the photo.  The seniors might be forced to lay up off the tee to avoid reaching the creek since the ball turbo boosts off that hidden downslope.  The graphic appears to show tee shots carrying the creek but I'm guessing that's a 270 yards carry.    I seem to recall the hole calling for back to back shots of 260 and 240 with the latter being substantially uphill.   

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back