Tiger's Other Disaster...TW Design

[John Moore II]

Actually, now that John mentions it, I think the business plan for Tiger Woods Design may be a tough one.

The only way you can command fees higher than everyone else is to be building in markets that are overheated, where someone feels like they need to trump the competition [small "t", no pun intended] with an even bigger name ... and those are precisely the markets, like Dubai, that are most likely to blow up while you're still on the launching pad.

Meanwhile, if the market is not yet saturated, it's less easy to justify paying Tiger 5 to 10 times as much as all the usual suspects, if some of them have yet to build a course in the area. 

Tom-Pinehurst Resort should commission you to build Pinehurst #9 and Tiger to build Pinehurst #10. Now that would be a good thing. {two thumbs up}

[Tom_Doak]

John:

I talked with Mr. Padgett years ago about courses 9 and 10.  I was told that they are contractually obligated to one of the Joneses for course #9, because their Dad once owned the land, and that was a term of the purchase.  And that they had a "relationship" with Jack Nicklaus so he was likely to do #10.

But, as it will likely be years before they build either one, maybe I'll be in the picture someday down the road.  Until then, we'll just keep trying to build other courses which take business away from them!

[John Moore II]

John:

I talked with Mr. Padgett years ago about courses 9 and 10.  I was told that they are contractually obligated to one of the Joneses for course #9, because their Dad once owned the land, and that was a term of the purchase.  And that they had a "relationship" with Jack Nicklaus so he was likely to do #10.

But, as it will likely be years before they build either one, maybe I'll be in the picture someday down the road.  Until then, we'll just keep trying to build other courses which take business away from them!

Well we can still dream...

[Chris Buie]

Jones (Talamore & #7) and Nicklaus (National) are already represented in Pinehurst.  I don't think they would create anything terribly different from what they have already done.  But a Doak in Pinehurst?  Now that would really be a very exciting addition for the area.  I would love to see that happen.

[PCCraig]

John:

I talked with Mr. Padgett years ago about courses 9 and 10.  I was told that they are contractually obligated to one of the Joneses for course #9, because their Dad once owned the land, and that was a term of the purchase.  And that they had a "relationship" with Jack Nicklaus so he was likely to do #10.

But, as it will likely be years before they build either one, maybe I'll be in the picture someday down the road.  Until then, we'll just keep trying to build other courses which take business away from them!

Where is the land that they plan on using for the 9th and 10th courses?

[Chris Buie]

Pat, if I remember correctly the land for #9 is pretty much across the street from The Pit.  I think they actually got around to clearing the land for #9 before 9/11.  I remember seeing an elaborate design for what amounted to an entire mini-town built around the course.  I'm guessing they weren't going to advertise that the land was a 5-iron away from a Superfund sight.  They discovered buried barrels of all kinds of fiendish toxins when they were building the Pit.  How's that for a GCA curveball?  They were pretty aggressive in dealing with the toxic waste and it is said not to be a problem any more. 

[John Moore II]

Jones (Talamore & #7) and Nicklaus (National) are already represented in Pinehurst.  I don't think they would create anything terribly different from what they have already done.  But a Doak in Pinehurst?  Now that would really be a very exciting addition for the area.  I would love to see that happen.

Well, RTJ II is not represented in Pinehurst. So, he could do the course. And National is an old Nicklaus. I think with the money that Pinehurst Resort would allow him for the course, he could build something really good. But yes, adding a new designer like Mr. Doak to Pinehurst would be a good thing. Especially if it was a public access course.

[Chris Buie]

People in the area are absolutely clamoring for an RTJ2.    Just kidding.  Neither Nicklaus nor Jones2 would be 1/4 as interesting as a Doak.  There are already so many courses here that I don't see any need to bother with building yet another course unless it is something special.  A Doak in Pinehurst would be special. 

[David_Elvins]

People in the area are absolutely clamoring for an RTJ2.    Just kidding.  Neither Nicklaus nor Jones2 would be 1/4 as interesting as a Doak.  There are already so many courses here that I don't see any need to bother with building yet another course unless it is something special.  A Doak in Pinehurst would be special. 

You may be underselling RTJ2 there.   He has a fine body of work. 

[Chris Buie]

David you are right.  He has done some good work.
However, if there was a course being built in your area which guy would you choose?  RTJ2, Nicklaus or Doak? 
We already have an overabundance of solid, competent and good courses as it is.  Why bother with more along those lines?  Why bother unless it is going to be something really great. 

[Bruce Katona]

Better yet - why bother if there are enough existing facilities to fill the needs...adding supply to a saturated market only dilutes the over all market more.

If a "new club needs to be added" - take the footprint of an existing facility and redo or reroute it.  The advantages are:
1. the permitting is already in place - you are renovating, not creating something new
2. the irrigation wells are already in place - this cost is now minimal
3. CH exists - CH touch-up can be Phase 11 of the project after the course is redone.
4. 1-3 above a re a heack of a lot less expensive than starting from scratch.

Just my $0.02