More changes at Walton Heath

[Scott Warren]

I was back at Walton Heath on Thursday and saw the club is advancing with some new work, new holes and changes to existing holes.

Two new holes are being built on the back nine of the Old course as part of the club's plan to sell the piece of land over the road from the main paddock to consolidate the club onto one piece of land. Of course that will mean the loss of the 1st hole of he Old - a par three of 230-odd yards.

To replace it, a new hole is being built (the dirt is being shaped currently) after the current par three 11th and the current 12th green will then be played to from a new tee 90-100 degrees clockwise of the current tee (new fairway also being currently built).

The image below explains it (and you can see the rough outlines in the grass - must be a pretty new image).

The green lines show - bottom to top - the dogleg right 10th, par three 11th playing back along it, short par four 12th dogleging right and then the dogleg right par five 13th exiting the tp of the image.

The red lines show - bottom to top - the dogleg right 10th, par three 11th playing back along it, a new par four playing straight parrallel to the 11th and 10th, the new par four playing to what is now the 12th green, then the dogleg right par five 13th exiting the top of the image.

[Scott Warren]

There has also been some significant work done to the brilliant par three 17th.

The horse-shoe bunker that fronted the green has had its middle filled in to there are now bunkers front right and front left.

Why exactly? I was unable to find out, but this hole will become the 2nd once the clubhouse/1st hole land is sold and the new clubhouse is built behind the 15th green/16th tee of the Old course. The old hole, while awesome, could well have been seen to bee a bit much for the second hole of the day.

I preferred the old version.

I do think the 16th will make a great opening hole, and the current 15th a great, tough finishing hole.

Here's the new 17th:




And how it looked last August:

[John Mayhugh]

Terrible change to the 17th.  And that's coming from someone who took several to get out of the section that has now been filled in.

[Mike_Clayton]

Amazing that you would touch that hole.

[Mark Chaplin]

Re 17 Old I couldn't understand why they were tinkering with an old classic until you see really old pictures of WH when 17 Old had a bunker left and right and a false front. So rather than tinkering they are restoring the hole to it's original design!

[Mark_F]

The new version looks batter, and more strategic.

What was/is the 12th hole like? 

Looks interesting on the diagram - sharp angled dogleg, then a green offset to the fairway over a ditch?

[Scott Warren]

The 12th is fun.

The fairway hard left off the tee is visible, but anything behind or right of the RHS fairway bunker is blind. The green is super shallow with bunkers front and back, and it's raised about 6ft above the fairway in front. The best angle is gained by just flying the bunker, but you don't really want to drive across the gravel path because then you're so close to the green that it's hard to put enough spin on the ball.

As the crow flies it's only 270-280m or so from the back tee to the flag, so for the monsters a high cut at the green is an option.

It will be disappointing for the hole to be lost, but it remains to be seen whether the new holes are better, I guess.

[Ben Stephens]

PAGING BOONY!!!

Bloody hell that is quite a dramatic change to the course - a new long hole replacing a par 3?? does that mean the length of the Old Course is now more than 7500 yards off the back markers?

17th - I would have redesigned the large front bunker - instead of a semi circle I would have created a horseshoe bunker creating a front landing area for feeble hitters!! but not losing the initial challenge of the hole.

Must play the old layout before they change it to the new one!

Thanks Scott for this insider news!

Cheers
Ben

[Tony_Muldoon]

Re 17 Old I couldn't understand why they were tinkering with an old classic until you see really old pictures of WH when 17 Old had a bunker left and right and a false front. So rather than tinkering they are restoring the hole to it's original design!

Sir Peter Allen dated this change to the mid 60's and made a point of criticising  it in his books.  "Not an improvement I think."  Outspoken stuff from a member.  I bet he never said anything so contentious about Augusta in print!


Having no gap in front only penalised the weaker golfer. The challenge for the better golfer to stay below the hole remains.


I do regret the changes to the 12th.  It’s an unusual hole for WH. From the angle it currently plays the green is hard to hit and hold. It will be more receptive from the n new direction. 


The green on the new hole will not be ready for a while looked very new last month.


I thought they were building two new holes?

[Scott Warren]

That's correct Tony,

new hole 1 = up the hill to a new green
new hole 2 = down the hill to the current 12th green.

I think that unless massive changes are made to the 12th green, the new hole will need to set up to make the RHS - with a lot of width at play - the preferred side to approach from. With anything more than a wedge in hand that green is almost impossible to hit and hold if you have to carry the front trap (and aren't a tour pro!).

[Ally Mcintosh]

When I walked the course in 2007, they were talking about these changes. I was wondering when they were to happen.

That 12th hole has a lot of history in tournament golf and is one of the more unusual on the course. It'll be missed. I don't think the 1st will though.

I actually didn't know too much about the proposed new clubhouse / routing but are you saying the current 16th (old, old 17th) will become the 1st?... That's a shame... It's the best hole on the course and perfectly positioned near the end...

[Scott Warren]

Yeah, hole order will be 16-18, 2-11, new hole, other new hole played to what's now the 12th, then 13-15.

Will mean consecutive par fours from 3-8 (current 18th, then current 2-6)

[James Boon]

Scott,

Thanks for the pictures and details. The aerial photos are interesting in that you can clearly see the route of the new holes, so I assume the club have had this planned for a while (Ally mentions 07 at least).

I liked the old fashioned, quirky nature of the clubhouse and 1st on the other side of the road to the rest of the course, but I recall it not being an easy road to cross so it certainly makes sense. I also imagine they will make a tidy sum from the sale of that land, but I'm not sure about the balance of the new routing, and I agree with Ally that the current 16th is a great hole, coming where it does at the moment, but it could prove a tricky test as an opener?

Ben,

The new yardage is a good point. The Old currently plays to 7,462 off th champiosnhip tees, which I guess they use for US Open qualifying.
http://www.whgc.co.uk/TheCourses/OldCourseGuide.aspx
Omit the first and 12th and add back in a long 4 and a short 4 and you are pushing 7,600 or more I would guess?

Cheers,

James

[Ben Stephens]

Yeah, hole order will be 16-18, 2-11, new hole, other new hole played to what's now the 12th, then 13-15.

Will mean consecutive par fours from 3-8 (current 18th, then current 2-6)

Maybe the current 3rd will be shortened to a par 3 to balance the course out

[Tony_Muldoon]

That's correct Tony,

new hole 1 = up the hill to a new green
new hole 2 = down the hill to the current 12th green.

I think that unless massive changes are made to the 12th green, the new hole will need to set up to make the RHS - with a lot of width at play - the preferred side to approach from. With anything more than a wedge in hand that green is almost impossible to hit and hold if you have to carry the front trap (and aren't a tour pro!).

Thanks Scott for all of this.


I believe the current first was originally a Par 4 playing across the quieter approach road.  IT is a good 19th (‘or 1st playoff hole for the US Open qualifier) but overall it won’t be missed.


I wonder if they’ll now start the New on the 8th?   It would make sense but still be a shame as the New is the course that is relatively unchanged since Fowler’s days.


The area to the right of there is where they set up a practice ground for tournaments. Could becoame full time practice area?

[Jeff_Lewis]

I am playing Walton Heath Old (the two ball course) before Noon on Tuesday. If there are any Londoners around who would care to join, please send me an IM.

[John Mayhugh]

Terrible change to the 17th.  And that's coming from someone who took several to get out of the section that has now been filled in.

Having no gap in front only penalised the weaker golfer. The challenge for the better golfer to stay below the hole remains.

These comments belong together.   

[Scott Warren]

Brian,

In short, no.

I know two members and each has a different idea of what stage the process is at and its likelihood of progressing soon.

I have to say that were I a man of means, the parcel that houses the clubhouse, putting green and 1st on the Old would make me a fine home!!

What is the status of the two new holes? Have they made any progress? Earthworks?

[Paul_Turner]

The new 12th routing looks crap.   The camber to the original fairway is the whole point of that hole.  Approaching that green from the new angle won't be anywhere near as interesting.

I guess not many will mourn the 1st though.

The 17th isn't origina, can't remember when it was added (quite some time ago).

I love the courtyard putting green at WH but I guess that's a gonna too!

[Paul_Turner]

delete

[Mark Chaplin]

Walton Heath has a large old wooden clubhouse that is no doubt expensive to maintain. The road has to be crossed twice and is both busy and fast, whilst it maybe an irritation for a visitor it is a real pain for the membership. Building land in the area is extremely valuable and realising the asset and making the entire facility more member friendly may well secure the longterm future of the club.

[Gareth Williams]

Brian,

In short, no.

I know two members and each has a different idea of what stage the process is at and its likelihood of progressing soon.

I have to say that were I a man of means, the parcel that houses the clubhouse, putting green and 1st on the Old would make me a fine home!!

What is the status of the two new holes? Have they made any progress? Earthworks?

Scott,

I wish I had asked the member I met at the Swinley day but didn't realise at the time it was a planned re-routing. From what I could see (I didn't fully investigate), the fairways appear complete - I actually thought the current 12th was as per the routing you describe  with the red lines above so I drew one around the tree close to what will be the "new" 12th fairway (or whatever number hole it will be) - I only realised as I walked up that the 12th is a dog leg right. That led me to believe that it can't be too far off but I suppose the new club house would need to be built first?

Brian - In discussing this with David (my friend who is a member) he's said that there are a few plans being discussed but nothing is set as yet.

Will depend on the costs involved for the land/any new build ultimately.

[Scott Warren]

Details of the new holes thanks to Adam Lawrence:

http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/Article/New-relief-holes-at-Walton-Heath/2116/Default.aspx

[John Mayhugh]

Interesting that these are called relief holes, and seems that they are only planning to give them a try for now.  Maybe not a permanent change.

Cost of the work is amazing.

[Sean_A]

Re 17 Old I couldn't understand why they were tinkering with an old classic until you see really old pictures of WH when 17 Old had a bunker left and right and a false front. So rather than tinkering they are restoring the hole to it's original design!

Chappers

A later creation of one long trench bunker fronting a green was done at Beau Desert as well.  Fowler has a rep for these and some folks decided to help foster that rep.  Still, the only way the change at #17 makes sense is for the front to be reshaped and the green coming down between the bunkers.

Ciao