Pebble Beach and the US Open

[Jim Hoak]

I played Pebble Beach yesterday (Thursday) under US Open conditions (but from shorter tees).  I have several thoughts, and I wanted to start this thread to elicit comments on the course--changes, set-up, conditioning, etc.--from people who are here next week, or just see it on television.
I am biased, but I thought the course was off-the-charts good.  It is your beautiful, traditional Pebble--but on steriods for the Open.  I am often underwhelmed--or even offended--by changes to classic courses, but I found most of the changes good and in keeping with the nature of the course.

Some random thoughts:

   1)   The course is in great shape.  The fairways are terrific--firm and fast, and few problem areas.  The new water source for the course seems to have produced terrific grass.  The greens are better than I have ever seen them in 25 years.  The surface is smooth and the color is great.  They are very firm--and should get firmer as the week goes on--with no rain in the forecast.  The rough is graduated--fairways 25-30 yards wide, approximately 5 yards of light rough, then 5 of tough rough, then the very difficult heavy rough, from which I found it hard to hit more than an 8-iron.  The ball seems to settle very low in the rough.  Around the greens, the rough is very thick and difficult.

   2)  The ocean has been brought more into play than in any recent times, which they say is how the course was originally meant to be played.  The banks have been shaved--and the rough near the ocean diminished--so that mishit balls will feed into the ocean.   For example, I hit a shot that landed short of the 9th green, and the ball feed right into the ocean. 

   3)  Several of the fairways have been moved.  For example, the 8th fairway is 20-30 yard right of where it was--and with the shaved banks, the ocean is very much in play on the tee shot.  Similarly, the 16th fairway has been moved right so that the pot bunker almost becomes the target off the tee and affects play.  The 11th fairway is to the right which will require an approach shot over the green-side bunkers

   4)  There are several new tees that look very difficult--10 yards back on 3, 10 on 6, 15 on 8, 50 on 9, 60 on 10, 20 on 11, and 50 on 13.  The new tees will not be used every day.  They seem natural and not contrived.  The cross-bunker on 13 has been brought more across the fairway, and with the new tee which is back down 12 fairway, it will be tough to carry depending on the wind.  This will require a shot to the right for most.  New bunkering on the left of 6 and 15 is good.

I'm sure I'll think of addtional thoughts, and I hope to hear from many of you next week.  It should be a great Open.  The winning score will depend on the wind, but it will be a good test for the participants.

[Carl Rogers]

In my USGA Open book, it says that no changes were made on the 12th hole.

I was under a general average of the average opinion that that was the weakest hole on the course and needed some significant re-work.

Does anyone want to take a position about this hole?  What would need to be changed?

[Alex Miller]

I like the 12th. Though, with the lay of the land and the setting it could make for an epic redan. However I don't think that would necessarily fit in with PB's style, but it's a good hole that could be better.

Really looking forward to watching the Open there in person!

[Joe Bausch]

How 'bout this from a Q&A with Johnny Miller:

Q: You live near Pebble. Have you had a chance to check it out?

A: I have been out there a couple of times the past few weeks. The rough around the bunkers is high and you better pray it goes in the bunkers if you hit it over there. The rough is long near the ocean, a lot of new yardage. It's going to be one tough Open. If it happens to be windy, five to 10-over par can win it.

[Jim Hoak]

There seem to be no changes to the 12th--except that the new 13th tee is two-thirds of the way down the left of the 12th hole.
One other thing, the USGA has changed the sand consistency in the bunkers so that there is 2 inches or so of soft, churned-up sand in the bunkers on the top.  They will not play easy.

[JohnV]

I was over there yesterday, but only looked at the 18th.  You can not hit it left of the trees on 18 anymore.  Also, the fairway bunker along the see wall has had all the rough between the fairway and it cut to fairway height so that balls can more easily roll into it.  There are other fairway bunkers on the course that have been similarly "enlarged".

[Adam Clayman]

John You must mean right of the trees?

Carl, I've taken a contrary position on #12 before. It is not the weakest hole on the course. The new #5 is or the 15th.

One reason, I suspect, people diss the hole is because they do not play it well. Why don't they play it well? Perhaps they fail to be aware of the change in direction and the change in the wind's affect? Or, they fail to notice that playing towards the pin can be a sucker play.
Whatever it is, the hole does not yield many pars, and fewer birdies. I'm sure there's been an ace there, I just have never heard of one. Juxtapose that to the new fifth where in the first week of it's opening there were at least two aces. Now that's a weak hole.

[Eric_Terhorst]

   3)  Several of the fairways have been moved.  For example, the 8th fairway is 20-30 yard right of where it was--and with the shaved banks, the ocean is very much in play on the tee shot.  Similarly, the 16th fairway has been moved right so that the pot bunker almost becomes the target off the tee and affects play.  The 11th fairway is to the right which will require an approach shot over the green-side bunkers

Jim, thanks for the report. 

The changes listed in item 3 don't sound appealing to me.  One thing that's great about 8 is that if the player hits his drive left to avoid the ocean right, he simply puts a longer club in his hands, compounding the difficulty of an already difficult approach.

Shrinking the fairways on 11 and 16 to force the player right takes away the optimal driving strategy on these holes.  In fact the optimal strategies for these three holes are so elementary they're even described on the resort's own web site for the tourists!! 

Instead of allowing for these shots, it seems based on your descriptions that the USGA is up to its usual tricks:  1) Hit it here;  2) If you don't hit it here, you will be penalized by chokehold-quality rough;  3) Repeat, ad nauseum.

No? 

[Tom Birkert]

I do not like the new bunkers on 3. They are on the far side of the fairway, the outside of the dogleg.

Furthermore, without the bunkers the players would have no chance of going for the pin if it's on the right hand side of the green as the rough would ensure no one was able to hold the green.

Now the bunkers mean the players can control spin and potentially hold the green. They will be praying they go in the bunkers rather than the rough.

I think they are pointless and add nothing to the course whatsoever.

[Jim Hoak]

Eric, there may be a bit of what you suggest--hit it exactly here or suffer.  But I think by moving the fairways, they have brought features into play that weren't always there (at least as much)--the ocean on 8 tee ball, the pot bunker on the right of 16, and the right green side bunkers on 11.  But we'll see how it plays.  It's certainly interesting--and I imagine it'll be controversial for some.  But I kind of liked the new look--at least for the Open.  I assume they'll go back to normal afterwards.  Let me know what you think after seeing it on television.

[Jim Hoak]

Regarding 18--the new trees do make it hard to play to the right of them.  Theya re positioned to force a tee ball to the left, and with the shaved areas leading into the ocean, it toughens the tee shot.  And it is correct that the left bunkers on the second shot are more in play with the shaved areas funneling a ball into them (including mine on Thursday).

[Link Walsh]

The USGA has a good website set up for the U.S. Open.  You can watch the flyovers for each hole.  The flyovers are definitely new, so you can see and listen to all the changes that were made to the holes.  For example, 16 looks like a different hole considering where the fairway is now.  Here's the link:

http://www.usopen.com/en_US/course/index.html


Also, I'm wondering if there has been any talk about moving tee boxes around on holes from day to day.  It's obvious they are trying to bring the ocean more in play which should be interesting to watch.  But has anyone heard any rumors about drivable par 4s or anything?   

[Anthony Gray]

  PB is actually underrated as a golf course. The location/ocean may actually diminish its architectual merit.

  Anthony

[Adam Clayman]

PB is being systematically altered reducing it's architectural merits.

[Jim Hoak]

In answer to some questions:  There is a plan to move the tees around depending on the winds.  #4 will probably be a driveable par 4 at least on 2 or the 4 days.  They will not use the new back tee on #13 if the wind is too much.  etc.
The rough seems to be in the process of being cut down to about 3 inches or so from 4 inches.  The greens are being kept at a 12.5 speed, which is not that much given the lack of slopes in most of the greens.
The ocean is definitely being brought more into play through mowing, but I don't think it is being overdone or is altering the basic architectural nature of the course.  Mike Davis, the USGA head of the tournament, is a very sensible guy, who respects the integrity of the course, but still wants to make it--as it's always been--the toughest test of the majors.

[Bill_Yates]

I've been out on the course quite a bit over the past few weeks and have a few observations.

1. All of the fairways are being mowed in the direction of play in order to help the ball to roll a bit more (into the ocean or into neighboring fairway bunkers).  If you're looking for geometric striping you'll be disappointed or if you hit a low screamer toward the ocean on 4, 6, 8, 9, 10, or 18 you'll also be disappointed.

2. I did not look at them all, but it appears to me that the fairway-side edges of the fairway bunkers are all mowed right into the bunkers at fairway cut length.  This also applies to the new pot bunker located in the left center of the fifteenth fairway.  It won't suck balls in as they roll by, but if they're heading toward the bunker, a ball will easily roll over the bunker's edge and down the steep closely-mowed grass slope.

3.  Greenside bunkers, and almost all other bunkers, have untrimmed brows and lashes on the green and/or rough side, some as tall as 3 feet.  The pictures below of the greenside bunkers at 3 and 4 were taken 2 or 3 weeks ago.  The grass is much thicker and taller today.

4.  I expect the weather to be sunny with perhaps a bit of morning fog some days, and maybe we'll see some wind in the afternoon.  Over the past few days we've seen the wind come up later in the day.  It's been fairly dry as well, there has been no rain here for several weeks.  It should be a great week weather-wise to watch play on a firm, fast course.

5. The greens look perfect! 

6. The new tees will bring the ocean back into play on 9 and 10 and the new tee on 13 will bring the large left fairway bunker back in play.

7. I also expect to see a few large numbers made at, and around, the 14th green.  Once the ball trickles off the left side of the green and down the steep bank, it will come to rest in 2 1/2 to 4 inches of rough.  It's not an easy recovery from there, just remember the 9's that were made from left of the green during the AT&T this year.

In all, I think it will be a great championship.

Greenside bunker Hole #3



Greenside bunker Hole #4

[Adam Clayman]

What's the carry distance on the Shivas bunker on 15?

[Adam Clayman]

Also, to say these greens are flattish, at 12.5, is a. Mis characterization. Unless they've been soften under Arnie's rule.

[Bill_Yates]

Adam, you can see the Shivas bunker on Google Earth.  It looks like it's 290 to the front and about 306 to carry. 

Interesting that on the cheap version of GE the new tees at 9, 10 and 13 aparently weren't built yet, but it looks like the Shivas bunker is nearing completion.  You can barely see the cut-away area that will soon accomodate the steps.  And keep in mind that the dark green ring of sod surrounding and lining the bunker is now fairway.

[Adam Clayman]

Bill, I was on my mobile earlier and could not see the pix. I'm shocked to see the look. It looks nothing like the bunker edges from 2000 where the grass was grown out to about 4-5 feet. This attempt at transitioning is a joke, right? Were they really taken yesterday?

Thanx for the info on GE. I'm not a fan of the added bunkers on 15. But I have not played them. I do know some caddies that are not particularly enthralled with them because, if there was one hole, the average client had a chance to make a par on, it was 15. Back then, the task was to keep it in bounds, or at least off the right side of the cart path. Now, if the player hits a good drive, on a hole with OB on both sides, they run the risk of being in that bunker, making the hole play nowhere near as it once did.

[Bill_Yates]

Adam, don't be shocked.  I mentioned in my post that those pictures were taken 2 or 3 weeks ago, perhaps even earlier.

[Adam Clayman]

Thanx Bill. Appreciate the legwork.

They have a live course cam set up. Here's an image I just captured looking back up the 18th fairway. It's clear what JVB said about no more option to the right side of the trees.

Somehow removing that option negates the justification for the trees. Anyone disagree?

[Rick Shefchik]

I always thought the trees on 18 were misplaced and out of character for the course. Looking back from the course cam, I'm surprised at how much room there is between the seawall and the trees -- it doesn't look that wide from the tee. But if they're going to bring in the right rough, that should be penalty enough for playing away from the ocean.

[Rob Rigg]

How much larger is the new Cypress on 18 vs the Pine that died or miraculously fell over of whatever happened?

The trees on 18 look bizarre - with the large Cypress by the green are they needed?

Did anyone feel that the other trees that Arnie's team planted made a positive/negative impact on aesthetics and scoring?

Can't wait to see the course on Tuesday. Looks gorgeous.

[Phil McDade]

Adam:

About those trees on 18...

If you absolutely don't want to bogey 18, and are OK with par (say, you have a one-stroke lead in the final round, or sitting close to the cut line), isn't a rationale play to hit your tee shot right of the trees, chop out of the rough to the fairway, and be left with something like a 7-iron or less to the green for your third shot? The 18th is one of those rare holes that seems to have improved strategically with the advent of technology, as it has brought going for the green in two more into play, it seems.

I could be all wrong, and have never been to Pebble much less played it, but interested in yours and other thoughts.