[Steve Salmen]

I played Cypress Point yesterday.  Through 11 holes, I enjoyed the course and thought it was very pretty but certainly not my favorite course (yet).  Through 11 holes, I was really only blown away by 8 and 9. 

24 hours later I am still having a hard time believing that I played a stretch of golf as magnificent as 12-17.  Not only is it the most beautiful place I've ever been, the quality of the golf holes are unsurpassed.  It is the most enjoyable walk I have ever made.

My friends have all been really excited for me to have had the opportunity.  I wish everyone who cares about the game the same chance.  I look forward to being able to talk about CPC when future discussions come up.  Thank you to Dave Nash and Mr. L for making this possible for me.

[Anthony Gray]

   Congrats Steve. Had family issues last night. Did you take the persimmon? What surprised you the most? How did it compare Pasatiempo? What's next?

  Anthony

[Kyle Henderson]

Well, I studied the course so heavily before playing it, I always knew what was ahead. Even the first 11 holes include some real gems, especially 2, 5, 6, 8, 9.

I'll go on record stating that Cypress Point is not quite my favorite course, but it well may be the best course I've played. Golf doesn't really get (or need to be) any better than a day at CPC.

[Eric Smith]

Very cool to read that Steve.  [And you've been around too.]  Yours is a sentiment that I would expect an owner or member would always appreciate reading no matter what gc it is in reference to.  Matter of fact, that reminds me of a thread idea. , thanks

[Ted Cahill]

Glad that you got that experience.  If any Cypress or NGLA or any other historic course members are reading this- when are you going to reconsider your access policies?!?  Why can the public play great/historic courses in Australia or Europe, but not in the United States?  I understand you pay a lot of money to belong to these courses- but, frankly, you had no part in their greatness and yet, you restrict them from golf lovers who wish to enjoy them at least once.  You could arrange things so non-members could have access to play them once a year on weedkay afternoons.  Mike Kaiser has set a great example for you all when it comes to stewardship of great golf courses- I hope you begin to emmulate his vision for golf in this country.   

[Steve Salmen]

Jim Colton's thread about listing the top 25 courses we've played really got me thinking about how I would rank them.  I imagine if I had some Star Trek like device and could be transported to any first tee of a course I have played, where would I choose to beam myself?

I've made no secret that for 19 years, Muirfield has been my favorite course.  Dornoch is second.  I never imagined I would play a course that I found to be so vastly superior to both.  10 round allocation would be 8-1-1.  If both Dornoch and Muirfield are Doak 10s, CPC deserves a special designation.

Eric,

I look forward to meeting you.  We spoke on the phone last year.  I met up with a fellow member of yours last summer.  Great guy.  I hope to get to Knoxville for some golf with you and Anthony.


Kyle,

I should have given more credit to the opening hole.  Congratulations on your wedding and a great event you held in Tahoe.  Wish I could have been there.

Anthony,

I played Cypress and Pasatiempo with persimmon woods.  What surprised me was the beauty and strategy of the holes at
 at CPC.   It sort of reminded me of Dornoch in this regard:  it's not that hard a golf course until you start believing it's not that hard a golf course.  Then you get mentally lazy and loose shots can cost you a very lot of shots on a hole in a hurry.

Pasatiempo is in hills, not on the ocean.  Lot's of trouble is visible to the player on both courses.  What you see is what you get.  Big, deep bunkers.  Greens that have fine internal contouring, subtle breaks that are hard to see.

I don't know what's next.  I played with a member of Pine Valley at Dornoch last summer.  He told me he'd take me out there or  make a call for me at National if I wanted.    I may or may not ask.  We'll see.   I'm still in shock.  I just did not imagine anything that good was possible.

[Steve Salmen]

Ted,

One problem is that a lot of really fine clubs just don't have that many members.  However, if you come across one, they are usually extremely generous.  A good friend of mine said it was a great privilege to belong to Muirfield and felt an obligation to share the experience with people who appreciated great golf.  I think most members feel this way, at least I hope so.

Another problem is the tax code and only a small % of club revenue can come from outside sources.

Lastly, I just think private clubs want to remain private, for members and their guests.  If members are willing to pay huge premiums for perfectly conditioned golf courses that receive little play, I'm not going to fault them.  But I agree.  I wish the model was closer to that of Muirfield's. Tuesday and Thursday, roughly 40 visitor rounds, about $350 per head.  That's 25k/wk.  I would love that opportunity as both a member and a visitor.

[Mark Chaplin]

I've yet to play CPC but find it very difficult to judge spectacular courses against those without the views. A recent trip to Nefyn showed just how beautiful a course can be with a stunning back drop.

Pine Valley has no views so everything is judged by what you see within the confines of the hole, as is Deal although I'm loathe to the name in the same sentence!

Ted - whilst I couldn't agree more with you Kaiser runs courses, CPC, NGLA et al are clubs. A totally different proposition.

Steve - get the signatures, wait 19 years and you maybe able to join HCEG!

[Steve Salmen]

Mark,

My bloodlines (among other things) prevent me from becoming an Honourable Edinburgh Golfer.  Many members fought the Germans in the War and have long memories.  I can't really fault them.  I'm happy visiting every few years.  Besides, Mrs. McCarthy and I get along well and she is very accommodating when I request a tee time.

[Tim Bert]

Through 11 holes, I was really only blown away by 8 and 9. 

24 hours later I am still having a hard time believing that I played a stretch of golf as magnificent as 12-17.  Not only is it the most beautiful place I've ever been, the quality of the golf holes are unsurpassed.  It is the most enjoyable walk I have ever made.

Always interesting to hear different reactions to a one time play at this course. As a one-time player myself, I think I went in expecting to love 13-17, which I did, but came out with 5-9 as my favorite sustained stretch on the course. I think the difference for me probably had something to do with expectations. I KNEW I was going to love that back nine stretch. I'm not sure I could say that 5-9 is "better" with a straight face but I think it is nearly as good and that has become the stretch that I think about in my sleep. 

[Andrew Lewis]

Steve -

You had mentioned this as a possibility when we played at the Mashie, and I'm happy for you that it worked out!

Your stated earlier that you played with persimmons, so I have to ask (and I'd imagine others are wondering) -- what happened on #16?

Hope all is well, and look forward to catching up.

-Andrew

[Carl Nichols]

Steve:
What socks did you wear?  And did you make your tee time? 

[Tim Martin]

Steve-It sounds as good as everyone says. Congrats on fulfilling a dream. Do you play most rounds with persimmons?

[Mike Benham]

I played Cypress Point yesterday.  Through 11 holes, I enjoyed the course and thought it was very pretty but certainly not my favorite course (yet).  Through 11 holes, I was really only blown away by 8 and 9. 

I've made no secret that for 19 years, Muirfield has been my favorite course.  Dornoch is second.  I never imagined I would play a course that I found to be so vastly superior to both.  10 round allocation would be 8-1-1.  If both Dornoch and Muirfield are Doak 10s, CPC deserves a special designation.

I'm only slightly confused, is CPC 3rd?  If so, how can it be when you felt that 9 of the first 11 holes were less then spectacular?

[Steve Salmen]

Andrew,  Thanks for the wishes.  It was special.  16 I completely bungled.  3 wood into the ocean, made 7, finished par par.  17 is on the very short list of my favorite par 4s.

Carl,  I wore a brand new pair of argyle socks but nobody knows.  Shorts are not allowed.  Thanks for asking.

Tim,  I have been messing around with persimmon for about a year.  If a course is between 6000 and 6600 it's really a lot of fun with the lumber and old Tour Models.  I'm definitely not that good a player but I enjoy the game a lot.   Newer courses are built for new technology and I'll take out the 660 irons and 905s driver on longer courses.  I really hope to get back out to Chicago because I have not yet played it with persimmon. 

Mike, after finishing the round, I have no doubt that CPC is my #1 by far.  The ocean and dunes holes make all the difference to me.

[Anthony Gray]

Steve:
What socks did you wear?  And did you make your tee time? 

  Did they make you take your shoes off when you went through security?

  Anthony

[Rob Bice]

I played Cypress Point yesterday.  Through 11 holes, I enjoyed the course and thought it was very pretty but certainly not my favorite course (yet).  Through 11 holes, I was really only blown away by 8 and 9.

Steve-great to hear you were able to play Cypress.  Hope we can get out and play when you're back in Chicago.

After you finished the round did you think differently about the first 11 holes than when you initially played them?  To me, it is very hard to separate holes on Cypress - aside from 16.  The beauty of the course to me is how it plays out over the entire 18 holes.  I know there is some controversy with the finishing hole but otherwise it is the course you think about rather than the individual holes.  To me, the signature of a great course.

[Brett_Morrissy]

Hi Steve,

Nice thread - I just love reading about anyone that has played CPC.
I am hoping to play mid July this year, if all the planets line up - would you advise against fitting in another 18 holes on Monterey on the same day as a round at CPC, due to the whole importance of the experience?
- and would you recommend, if you had the choice, of playing Pasatiempo before or after CPC?

Do you get the Plus Fours out with the Persimmon?

Cheers and

[Tom Huckaby]

Brett - if you play CPC with a member, DO NOT MAKE PLANS FOR ANYWHERE ELSE.  Stay and linger as long as the member wants you to.  You of course will not want to leave.

If you do the more normal unaccompanied guest round, you won't have a choice; oh they will not hustle you out, but it will be clear you get no more than the 18 holes and you cannot go in the members' part of the clubhouse, that's for sure.  So no post-round lunch or drinks or the like; just shopping and leaving... which of course is pretty darn good in and of itself.

SO... in the latter case... whether to play more depends on your appetite for the game.  Your senses will be pretty overwhelmed, particularly if it's your first time there.  But what do you do then?  Sit back and contemplate life, or play more golf?  All I can say is you will play early, so there will be light in the day... and there are PLENTY of other great courses quite nearby.  But the choice is yours; only you can answer this.  I would say this:  don't make any pre-planned 2nd tee times for that afternoon.  Play it by ear.

Pasatiempo before or after CPC?  I'd say before.  After it has the chance of seeming like a let-down, and you do not want that as it is damn great in and of itself.

[Brent Hutto]

So no post-round lunch or drinks or the like; just shopping and leaving... which of course is pretty darn good in and of itself.

Or in my case shopping then sitting on a bench near the pro shop for about 20 minutes, looking out over the course and replaying the round in my head. That works especially well on a gorgeous, mild, breezy day.

[Tom Huckaby]

So no post-round lunch or drinks or the like; just shopping and leaving... which of course is pretty darn good in and of itself.

Or in my case shopping then sitting on a bench near the pro shop for about 20 minutes, looking out over the course and replaying the round in my head. That works especially well on a gorgeous, mild, breezy day.

Exactly.  That works for sure.

But the point is, they ain't offering a 2nd round.  So if one does want to play more golf on that gorgeous day, well.. it's gonna have to be somewhere else.  Whether that is worth doing remains a very personal choice.  Pretty much anywhere one goes will be a let-down for sure.  But golf it golf... it just depends on how much one wants to play at all.

[Brett_Morrissy]

Brent the idea of sitting in quiet contemplation on a seat at CPC, walking the holes and shots in your mind, certainly sounds like a very good one. idyllic.

Cheers

[Tom Huckaby]

Brent the idea of sitting in quiet contemplation on a seat at CPC, walking the holes and shots in your mind, certainly sounds like a very good one. idyllic.

Cheers

But again... they're not gonna let you stay there all day, as idyllic as that will be.
The question remains what does one do with what is likely at least 7 more hours of daylight as one exits the parking lot.

 

[Steve Salmen]

Brett,

I hope you get the chance to play Cypress.  The finishing holes are breathtaking.

I played in regular golf clothes, I don't much care for plus 4s.  Every year I see a Texan or two wearing plus 4s in Scotland and I think they look ridiculous. 

I played Pasatiempo the day before, not by design or anything, just fit it into the day I was not playing Cypress.  You would prefer to play Pasa, then Cypress, then take a few days to decompress and think about what you experienced.

I tried to get on four courses on the Monday (for a Mackenzie trifecta) and had no success: Green Hills, Claremont, Lake Merced and Meadow.  They all said they would have accommodated me on any other weekday.

Best of luck.

[Kevin Pallier]

All I can say is you will play early, so there will be light in the day... and there are PLENTY of other great courses quite nearby.  But the choice is yours; only you can answer this.  I would say this:  don't make any pre-planned 2nd tee times for that afternoon.  Play it by ear.

Pasatiempo before or after CPC?  I'd say before.  After it has the chance of seeming like a let-down, and you do not want that as it is damn great in and of itself.

Tom

I played CPC first up in the morning and then decided at the last minute to drive upto Patatiempo and was fortunate to play it in the PM in the fading light. I got scolded as a result by a particular gentlemen for not informing him but be that as it may - a double hit of Mackenzie topped off a pretty special day.

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