[Rob Miller]

Gearing up for my trip to Bandon later this week, I wanted to throw a question out there to everyone.

First, Bandon Dunes is my favorite course at the resort.  I know, I know...that puts me in a minority here.  Experience probably plays too large a role in my judgement but for me the fun factor is higher than the other two (haven't played Old Mac yet).  From a design standpoint, Pacific is an amazing loop and I get that it probably deserves a higher ranking.  I still need a few more plays, but given a choice to play one course only, I would choose Bandon Dunes.

I love the opening stretch of holes, particularly the 1st, 4th and the outstanding fifth.  I love the smattering of hidden tee boxes around the course.  I love the fifth (did I mention that?).  I realize the the 18 and probably 9 are not terribly exciting but there's enough strength elsewhere to overcome it. 

Reading through the posts here, it seems that many would rank Bandon Dunes #3 or #4 at the resort.  So, why?  What am I missing?

[Alex Miller]

I also enjoyed my time on Bandon Dunes the most while there. It was not because of the architecture however.

All three courses are of such high caliber that externalities play a huge role in how fun the round is. I played BD in perfect weather, BT in fog and wind, and PD in showers and extreme wind. So for me, BD was the most enjoyable round, also it was my best score (I eagled the 9th!). If BD is your favorite course because you have the most fun on it, I can see that. Architecturally I still think PD and BT top it (though I'm not sure what order it's in). Old Mac probably will too, but I won't know for a while .

Being the 4th best golf course at BDGR is not a bad thing!

[Tom_Doak]

Rob:

I don't think many disagree with the highlights of Bandon Dunes which you enumerated.  It's just that you must not find as many positives as others do in Bandon Trails and Pacific Dunes ... which I can't explain, because you didn't elaborate.

But don't feel obliged; it is, after all, entirely subjective.

[Anthony Gray]

  Its all good. 4 great courses and different experiences. Ranking them diminishes the greatness of the place as a whole.

   Anthony

[Scott Warren]

It was put to me last weekend when I asked about Bandon that Bandon Dunes is the "most British" of the courses there. What say those who have played both at Bandon and in GB&I?

[Brent Hutto]

Its all good. 4 great courses and different experiences. Ranking them diminishes the greatness of the place as a whole.

I have the same problem with ranking courses in general. How in the world can I say whether the Ocean Course or Brora ranks higher? Playing at either place iis an ecstatic experience but they have so little in common other than the size of the hole and the sight of large bodies of water.

[Sean_A]

Its all good. 4 great courses and different experiences. Ranking them diminishes the greatness of the place as a whole.

I have the same problem with ranking courses in general. How in the world can I say whether the Ocean Course or Brora ranks higher? Playing at either place iis an ecstatic experience but they have so little in common other than the size of the hole and the sight of large bodies of water.

Me 3.  At the end of the day I always get back to my acid test; would I want to pay full freight to have another go?

Ciao 

[Jim Hoak]

Scott--Bandon the "most British"?
I have heard it said several times that Pacific is Irish and Bandon is British.  I've played both of them--and several times in both Ireland and England/Scotland--, and I agree.  However, I'm not smart enough to articulate why that seems to be so.  Maybe others can.

[Rob Miller]

Rob:

I don't think many disagree with the highlights of Bandon Dunes which you enumerated.  It's just that you must not find as many positives as others do in Bandon Trails and Pacific Dunes ... which I can't explain, because you didn't elaborate.

But don't feel obliged; it is, after all, entirely subjective.

Tom,

Thanks for the magnanimous response.  What I'd like to know from those who prefer Bandon Trails and Pacific Dunes are is their preference because of weaknesses in Bandon Dunes or just due to the strength of the other two courses.

I do have one question- were there characteristics of Pacific Dunes that developed to contrast or provide variety from what was created at Bandon Dunes?  If Pacific Dunes was built first and given the same routing do you think it would essentially be the same course?

[Terry Lavin]

I'll play politician and say that I love all four golf courses.

Bandon Dunes has some spectacular oceanfront holes, a great routing with returning nines and a very consistent look and feel for 18 holes.  It looks like it's been there 100 years.

Pacific is my personal second best course I've ever played, right behind Sand Hills.  It is fun, quirky and demanding.  It has all of the eye candy of Spanish Bay, and it really doesn't have a weak hole.  The par 3's at 11 and 17 are world class.  The bunkering is awe-inspiring, especially the right greenside bunker on 18 and the greens are just delightful.  I like it better than Cypress Point, which is probably heresy, but it's all a matter of opinion, after all.

Bandon Trails is an exceptional golf course.  You never forget where you are, with the towering spruce trees and the rolling sand hills.  After a few days of getting battered by the wind on the other courses, one might think that you'd get a break at Trails, but the golf course is considerably more difficult, in my judgment.  #14 is a goofy hole, even after the green was changed, but it is what it is.  I'm not crazy about the 16th green or the 18th hole, but overall it is a very good golf course with tremendous shot values into almost every green.

Old Macdonald is the new hot girl on the block.  I liked every single hole.  I love the fact that it will inspire countless conversations about golf architecture among both the cognoscenti and the uninitiated.  The greens are like Lost Dunes on steroids.  Huge, fanciful and potentially demonic.  A pure delight.

I really don't have anything negative to say about Bandon Dunes.  The attitude of the employees, the quality of the accommodations and the undeniable greatness of the four layouts is just unparalleled in American golf.  Sorry, Pebble Beach.  Bandon is a better resort, hands down.

[Tom_Doak]

Rob:  Our basic checklist:

Bandon Dunes had returning nines, so we didn't need to.

Bandon Dunes was long, so Pacific Dunes could stay shorter.  (At Old Mac we went back to longer and wider.)

Bandon Dunes had big greens, so we would stay with smaller greens.  (Old Mac = huge.)

Bandon Dunes had grass-faced bunkers, so we went with the blowouts.  (Old Mac = eclectic.)

Bandon Dunes opened up a lot of ground, so we tried to keep more of the existing vegetation (gorse, pines, dune grass) and keep a more intimate feeling.  (Old Mac = wide open.)

Bandon Dunes had a lot of holes which played up to the ocean, so we tried to have more holes playing parallel with it.  (Old Mac = up into the dunes at the sea.)

[jonathan_becker]

Judge Lavin,

"The greens are like Lost Dunes on steroids."

Wow!!  After just playing Lost Dunes, I couldn't believe some of the contours on those greens.  I didn't find any unfair, just extremely difficult in spots.  (the flag short left on #1, putting to the back flag on #3, entire #4 green, and the short right flag on #16 are just a few examples that were an excellent short game test)

Anyway,  this just makes me more excited about my trip this fall!!

[Adam Clayman]

The subliminal pull of playing close to the water might be one reason for your opinion?   

[JESII]

Rob:  Our basic checklist:

Bandon Dunes had returning nines, so we didn't need to.

Bandon Dunes was long, so Pacific Dunes could stay shorter.  (At Old Mac we went back to longer and wider.)

Bandon Dunes had big greens, so we would stay with smaller greens.  (Old Mac = huge.)

Bandon Dunes had grass-faced bunkers, so we went with the blowouts.  (Old Mac = eclectic.)

Bandon Dunes opened up a lot of ground, so we tried to keep more of the existing vegetation (gorse, pines, dune grass) and keep a more intimate feeling.  (Old Mac = wide open.)

Bandon Dunes had a lot of holes which played up to the ocean, so we tried to have more holes playing parallel with it.  (Old Mac = up into the dunes at the sea.)

Tom,

Is this serious? Were you really that concious of creating differences? Or is some of it observation in hindsight?

[Tim Pitner]

Rob,

Bandon Dunes doesn't have frilly bunkers so it doesn't rate that highly here (I'm semi-serious). 

I enjoy BD more than many here but I do rank it 3rd among the 3 courses I've played (apparently I'm one of the few who hasn't played OM). 

Compared to Pacific Dunes, and to a lesser extent to Bandon Trails, the highs at BD aren't as high and the lows are lower.  For example, I would rate ##1, 4, 5, 7, 11, 12 and 14 at BD as very good holes.  But, IMO, they're not on the level of ##2 - 4 or ##6 - 8 at PD (again, for example).  And, while I think holes like ##3, 9 and 18 at BD are better than average, every hole at PD is more interesting than these, IMO. 

[Tom_Doak]

Rob:  Our basic checklist:

Bandon Dunes had returning nines, so we didn't need to.

Bandon Dunes was long, so Pacific Dunes could stay shorter.  (At Old Mac we went back to longer and wider.)

Bandon Dunes had big greens, so we would stay with smaller greens.  (Old Mac = huge.)

Bandon Dunes had grass-faced bunkers, so we went with the blowouts.  (Old Mac = eclectic.)

Bandon Dunes opened up a lot of ground, so we tried to keep more of the existing vegetation (gorse, pines, dune grass) and keep a more intimate feeling.  (Old Mac = wide open.)

Bandon Dunes had a lot of holes which played up to the ocean, so we tried to have more holes playing parallel with it.  (Old Mac = up into the dunes at the sea.)

Tom,

Is this serious? Were you really that concious of creating differences? Or is some of it observation in hindsight?

Jim:  100% serious.  We didn't think anyone would appreciate it if we said we were trying to build a course better than Bandon Dunes, so we aimed for "different, and just as good".  And with that mission statement, we left ourselves some room to overachieve.

The most important of those differences was the fact that Bandon Dunes was built at 7200 yards or something from the back tees.  Because of that, I could tell Mike K. that if he had a U.S. Amateur or something down the road, it would be on the other course, so Pacific Dunes didn't need "championship" tees ... it could just be a resort course.  Having the other course there allowed me to offload some features that most clients would insist upon, and just build what I really wanted to.

[Dan Herrmann]

Bandon Dunes is a lot of fun - I completely enjoyed it and was having the round of my life until Laura mentioned something like, "Do you know what you scored on the front nine" on the 12th tee.

Criticisms - I really didn't love the 16th and 18th holes.  I never got the idea of the area to the right of 16 fairway being left as sandstone (or whatever that hard, barren stuff is). 

18 just seems to be anticlimatic, where I found 18 at PD and BT to be really good and exciting. 

But that's just nit picking.  BD is a helluva golf course that you'll really like.  Just stay out of the bunker on 15!

[Rob Miller]

The subliminal pull of playing close to the water might be one reason for your opinion?   

Sure.  I'm a sucker for an ocean view and a cliffside hole.   

Bandon Dunes is a lot of fun - I completely enjoyed it and was having the round of my life until Laura mentioned something like, "Do you know what you scored on the front nine" on the 12th tee.

Criticisms - I really didn't love the 16th and 18th holes.  I never got the idea of the area to the right of 16 fairway being left as sandstone (or whatever that hard, barren stuff is). 

18 just seems to be anticlimatic, where I found 18 at PD and BT to be really good and exciting. 

But that's just nit picking.  BD is a helluva golf course that you'll really like.  Just stay out of the bunker on 15!

Thanks, interesting thoughts on 16.  I like the layout.  A decent drive with a little wind gives you a lot of different options. 

Anyway, it seemed to me that Bandon Dunes, and I guess particularly with the Old Macdonald opening, does not garner much attention here.  I suppose that there is more support than I imagined. 

I'm sticking with it as my favorite (at least for the next few days).

 

[Yannick Pilon]

It was put to me last weekend when I asked about Bandon that Bandon Dunes is the "most British" of the courses there. What say those who have played both at Bandon and in GB&I?

Scott,

I am surprised someone would say that.  For me, Bandon Dunes was the most "American" of the three courses I played when I went a few years ago.  With what felt like more shaping and more man made features, as compared to PD and BT, which, at least to me, seemed a lot more natural and "links-like"..  In other words, the setting felt linksy, but not the architecture.

Just my very personal opinion, though.  But this is one of the main reason why BD did not resonate with me as much as the other two courses.  After playing it the first day, I was glad I had two rounds booked on each PD and BT.  This being said, it was still a great course, though.  Just not as great as the other two, which are phenomenal.

YP

[Brad Isaacs]

THe beauty of the 16th at Bandon Dunes over shadows its quality as a golf hole.  The 9th and 18th holes are not the quality of holes that the rest of the course is.  That being said I have more fun on Bandon Dunes than Trails.  18th at trails --- not a great fininshing hole either.  The cousre that seems to be the most fun to play is Old Mac. then Pac Dunes followed very very closely by Bandon Dunes and then that other course. (Trails)
Ballyneal is the best Doak course that I have played though.(just no ocean)

[Rob Miller]

Here's the 16th with photos from bandondunesgolf.com.





My favorite part of the hole is the small greenside bunker.  Taking the safer line, for me it always comes into play. 

Would the hole be stronger if the bailout area was extended to the cliffs?  Had a larger drivable area left and long?  I'm just curious to hear some feedback from those with questions (as Brad put it) about its quality as a golf hole.   

[Bill Brightly]

Geeze, I wonder how many architects would take the job to build course #1 if they knew they would be followed by Doak, C&C and "CB Macdonald"... Bandon Dunes must be pretty darn good just to hang in the dicussion!

[Michael Dugger]

16 is one of the best holes in the world, IMHO.

Into the wind, it can be a serious challenge to get over the chasm and the gunk.

Downwind, the green is drivable.

the setting is unmatched.

The hole is one of those that defends par admirably.  I've been pin high with my drive and only managed a par.

Be a little bold with your approach and your ball can very easily end up in the Pacific, as the green hugs the cliff.

It's my favorite hole on the entire property.  Simply spectacular.

[Ross Waldorf]

I think 16 is a great hole as well. I think some of the negative comments come from the fact that the hole is really kind of an oddball -- it doesn't really make sense in some ways. But that's a big part of its charm, for me. If you had a blank slate to work from, you'd probably never come up with anything like it. Put the whole crazy thing next to the Pacific and step onto the tee (try just before sundown for the full effect) and you have one very memorable golf hole. I always look forward to playing it.

[Jason Topp]

The day I played 16 it was downwind or calm.  In those conditions, I thought it was the best and most memorable hole at Bandon Dunes.  How do people like it into a headwind?

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