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Peter Galea

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MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« on: March 21, 2002, 01:59:18 PM »
Bob Huntley faxed these letters to me and asked if I would put it up on the site for all to enjoy. MacKenzie pulls no punches.




« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"chief sherpa"

Tommy_Naccarato

Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2002, 02:12:28 PM »
Pete and Bob,
Thanks for taking the time to post these letters. Some pretty interesting stuff I might add.

There is little doubt just how bad a time it was for everyone. Here is Golf's most popular architect of the time, more or less desperately shopping for work while another person in the industry tears away at is good name.

I look at it this way: How many courses Mayo designed at that time compared to how many Dr. MacKenzie had designed. (Not to mention the quality of those designs.)

Let us all hope we never have to see a Great Depression again in our lifetimes. The game would not be able to stand it. (Think of all of those Fazio courses that would weed-up and erode away!)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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A_Clay_Man

Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2002, 02:47:34 PM »
Tommy - You really know how to make people smile  :)

Bob- What a great find and thanks to Pete for posting. I love how he spells out how plasticine models look like plasticine models when implemneted. Sounds like a certtain computerr programing reliant group could larn a thing or two from THE DEAR DOCTOR

Now we all know to refer to Mackenzie as 'my dear doctor' not the good doctor
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim_Weiman

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Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2002, 02:57:49 PM »
Bob Huntley/Pete Gelea:

Many thanks for sharing this with us.  I wish we could have more of this sort of thing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim Weiman

SL_Solow

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Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2002, 03:17:51 PM »
Just a note; Hawtree in Colt & Co. noted that Colt often worked in plasticene.  All architects should have built greens and surrounds as artificial as those designed by Colt.  Again its less in the design technique, be it plasticene models, detailed drawings or designing on the ground, and more in the artistic vision and execution that determines the product.  Having had the temerity to dispute the good Doctor, I loved the letters,particularly the clarity of the prose and the direct manner in which he presents his positions. Not only could he design great golf holes, he could write.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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ed_getka

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Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2002, 04:04:25 PM »
Pete,
 Thanks for putting the letter on here for us to read. Very interesting.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

A_Clay_Man

Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2002, 06:07:55 AM »
Bob- Just curious, has the membership gone ahead with plans to change the Shore?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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THuckaby2

Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2002, 06:15:47 AM »
Wow - VERY cool.  What a wealth of fun stuff one can find here on GCA - thanks, Bob and and thanks, Pete!

History like this I can definitely get into.  

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Bob_Huntley

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Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2002, 07:51:34 AM »
Adam:

The ballots are out on the vote to approve the Shore Reconstruction, we will know by late April. The illustrated brochure that came with our package is superb, it probably cost about the same amount as Bob Baldock's original fee to build the course back in 1960.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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A_Clay_Man

Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2002, 08:08:28 AM »
Bob- Does the apparent fact that the dear doctor had a soft place in his heart for the Shore course cause any remorse on your part for the potential of losing it to the modernists?

 If my memory serves me from our outing with John Bernhardt the course was extremely enjoyable with great variety and wonderful use of the natural features on site? Also if I recall correctly the new plan wants to take advantage of the views of the pacifc ocean rather than preserve what the dear doctor and others created during the depression?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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A_Clay_Man

Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2002, 08:10:25 AM »
Or was that just a depressing year 1960, my birthyear.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Bob_Huntley

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Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2002, 08:51:43 AM »
Adam:

If there is a better routing than the current proposal then I would love to see it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Bob_Huntley

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Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2002, 08:51:52 AM »
Adam:

If there is a better routing than the current proposal then I would love to see it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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RJ_Daley

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Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2002, 09:22:53 AM »
Pete G., the 'Dear' Dr., may have had one misconception when he spoke about the tendency to overfertilize with nitrogen and promote weeds, daisies, clover and worms.  Of course he wasn't wrong about overfert and water, but don't you think he was wrong about the worms?  Or, was he using that term to actually mean nemetodes?  Did they even know about nemetodes in those days?  No doubt they used clordane back then to kill worms.  When did they finally realise worms are beneficial?

Who was Mayo, a road grader that took golf course jobs?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Bob_Huntley

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Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2002, 10:00:23 AM »
RJDaley:

I shall be faxing a little bio to Pete Galea and hopefully he can scan and post.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Peter Galea

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Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2002, 01:42:02 PM »
Bob faxed this to me today. It's titled "Joe Mayo~Not just a Roadbuilder" from the MPCC News April 1928.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"chief sherpa"

Bob_Huntley

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Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2002, 02:06:34 PM »
Pete;

Thanks for taking the time to post it.

Bob
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Gib_Papazian

Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2002, 02:20:13 PM »
Bob,
Maybe I am a bit confused, but is there an actual routing plan and/or design in existence by Mackenzie for the Shore Course?

My reason for asking is that if somebody has it, wouldn't it make sense to consider using it?

I saw the brochure at the Superintendent's conference last Monday and the Strantz design looked outstanding. That said, to build a modernized Dr. Mac course from his plans would be  really special.

Just a thought, we know Raynor did the original design for the Dunes, but frequently he would draw up plans for a second course if the client desired for  future use. He did so at several places including Fishers Island. I wonder . . . .

It is certainly a romantic notion, but if I were king at MPCC it would be difficult to resist the temptation to  exhume the genius of the past - but I believe in ghosts.

We ought to have used Raynor's plan at Olympic on the Ocean Course and it strikes me as complete stupidity that Sequoyah has apparently opted not to construct Chandler Egan's remodel - even as Doug Nickels has done such a beautiful job interpreting them for the modern game.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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RJ_Daley

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Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2002, 02:22:00 PM »
Thanks to Bob and Pete for giving us an informative blast from the past. :D   I must confess my eyes are a bit blurry after reading the old print... :o  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Bob_Huntley

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Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2002, 06:05:27 PM »
RJDaley:

You are quite right, I could have blown up the copying to a reasonable size. Sorry.

Gib:

I am going through the archives tomorrow, to see if there is indeed an old plan by the god doctor of the Shore
Course, I'll let you know.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Gib_Papazian

Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2002, 11:27:47 PM »
Look for an alternative Raynor also. Betcha a dollar there is evidence of one somewhere - especially if Marion Hollins had two courses in mind.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tom MacWood (Guest)

Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2002, 07:05:15 AM »
Bob
Thanks again for bringing these letters to light.

MacKenzie's frustration and desperation in the letter is obvious, no doubt due to the lack of work. He must have recieved many replies similar to Morse's during the Depression. After first reading MacKenzie's letter I got the impression he was fighting for an impending job, but Morse's letter revealed
the cold reality that there was no job.

I also wonder if this letter was a result of losing another bid. He talks about the selection of an architect and Joe Mayo's influence on the Committee. The date leads me to be believe he may have been stung by the choice of Chandler Egan to design the front nine at Pacific Grove - I believe Mayo contructed that nine for Egan in 1932. Would it be fair to state there is a drastic difference between the flair exhibited by Egan, Hunter and Mayo at PBGL, and the flair exhibited by Egan and Mayo on the front nine at PG?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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A_Clay_Man

Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2002, 07:36:19 AM »
Tom- To even attempt to compare the two (PG n' PB) would be difficult because the original front nine has been so altered from its original design. Numerous bunkers have been filled in and at least one hole, the current ninth, has been altered significantly. The routing is different with the original 1st being now #6 and the ninth is the fifth, oddly enough still named 'the finisher'. Another reason comparisons are difficult is the fact that the PG course was designed and intended to be for the recreational activities of the peninsula residents.

The most significant reason, I believe a comparison is difficult in architectural terms is that there actually was intended division of the so called riff raf, so they would'nt come to play at Pebble.
Now if you wanna compare the numbers of young and perhaps not so wealthy souls who have enjoyed the majority of their golfing lives at a wonderful site and that provides good shot values, and is a wondeful test of golf especially when 'she a blowin'. I'd say PG wins hands down by sheer numbers doing 100k rds/yr.


 A side note that 1960 was also the year PG opened or built the Backside. I'd bet if the dead doctor was alive he'd have stuck his nose in.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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John_D._Bernhardt

Re: MacKenzie Letter courtesy of Mr. Huntley
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2002, 07:18:01 PM »
Bob and Pete, thank you very much.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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